In St. Jude 1:3, we read, "Dearly beloved, taking all care to write unto you concerning your common salvation, I was under a necessity to write unto you: to beseech you to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints." [Emphasis mine]. Contending For The Faith is a series of posts dedicated to apologetics (i.e., the intellectual defense of the truth of the Traditional Catholic Faith) to be published the first Monday of each month. This is the next installment.
Sadly, in this time of Great Apostasy, the faith is under attack like never before, and many Traditionalists don't know their faith well enough to defend it. Remember the words of our first pope, "But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect..." (1Peter 3:16). There are five (5) categories of attacks that will be dealt with in these posts. Attacks against:
- The existence and attributes of God
- The truth of the One True Church established by Christ for the salvation of all
- The truth of a particular dogma or doctrine of the Church
- The truth of Catholic moral teaching
- The truth of the sedevacantist position as the only Catholic solution to what has happened since Vatican II
In addition, controversial topics touching on the Faith will sometimes be featured, so that the problem and possible solutions may be better understood. If anyone had suggestions for topics that would fall into any of these categories, you may post them in the comments. I cannot guarantee a post on each one, but each will be carefully considered.
Leo Suenens: A Villain of Vatican II
In defending the Faith, it's important to know who the chief architects of the Robber Council were who put us in the Great Apostasy. This post will feature a horrific man: “Cardinal”Leo Suenens of Belgium.
Leo Suenens was born in 1904 of a pious Belgian family. Belgium was one of the most Catholic countries in the world, with numerous vocations and large families. Suenens' family wanted him to go into economics and manage their large fortune, but he decided to become a priest. Ordained at age 23 in 1927, Suenens would obtain a Doctorate in Sacred Theology, and was consecrated auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Mechelen in 1945 by order of Pope Pius XII. He became the new Archbishop in 1961 under Roncalli, and the archdiocese was renamed Mechelen-Brussels. Suenens received the "cardinal's hat" from false pope John XXIII in 1962.
At Vatican II, he would reveal himself to be one of the most influential Modernists, hell-bent on destroying the One True Church. Suenens was a close friend of Masonic pervert Giovanni Montini ("Pope" Paul VI), and was one of the leaders of the Modernists with Cardinals Alfrink and Frings. It was Suenens who named the first heretical document of Vatican II Lumen Gentium, as he had crafted much of the language in the opening paragraphs, which contained the false ecclesiology of the newly spawned Vatican II sect he helped to create. Here is a very unflattering picture painted of Suenens from his autobiography Memories and Hopes, his work on collegiality Co-Responsibility in the Church, Vatican II Revisited--Reflections by One Who was There, by Bp. Aloysius Wycislo, and Twelve Council Fathers, by W. Abbot.
Suenens:
- Was inspired by Modernist theologian Edward Schillebeecxk, a Dominican priest who was suspect of Modernism prior to Vatican II. After the Council, Schillebeecxk denied Transubstantiation, and derided the bodily Resurrection of Our Lord as a "crude and naive realism" that has "nothing to do with a corpse."
- Was motivated by ecumenism in everything he did. He rejected the idea there was only One True Church of Jesus Christ
- Supported the heretical idea of a "democratic" collegial Church, which destroys both the hierarchical structure of the Church instituted by Christ, and denigrates the pope to an Eastern Schismatic status as "first among equals"
- Worked most closely at the Council with periti (theological experts) Fr. Karl Rahner and Fr. Joseph Ratzinger, the future "Pope" Benedict XVI--both arch-heretics
- Had a meeting with four Anglican "bishops." He knelt before them and asked for their "blessing"
- Gave the opening address at the second session of Vatican II, blasphemously comparing Roncalli to St. John the Baptist, with the speech entitled There Was a Man Sent by God Named John
- Asked Montini (Paul VI) to reject the traditional teaching condemning artificial contraception and was furious when his former friend didn't. Montini was told by Cardinal Ottaviani that he would lose all credibility if he did so, and he listened to him instead, issuing Humanae Vitae. Too bad Cardinal Ottaviani did not reject Montini's false "papacy"
- Did all he could to undermine Church teaching on contraception which earned him praise from Planned Parenthood
- Spoke in favor of a "new understanding of marriage" at Vatican II whereby the sexual union of the spouses could be considered legitimate without any reference to procreation
- Rejected unchanging Catholic moral standards when he said, "Morality is first and foremost alive, a dynamism of life, and therefore subject to interior growth that rejects any kind of fixity." (Emphasis mine)
- Triumphantly proclaimed, "Vatican II is the French Revolution in the Church..."
Suenens: Destroyer of Vocations
In 1962, on the eve of the Robber Council, Suenens published a book entitled The Nun in the World. It has been credited with causing countless nuns to leave the convent, and radicalize those who remained.
On pg. 75, Suenens writes:
To revalue the religious life of today means to bring the religious life into harmony with the evolutionary state of the world and womankind, to retain from the past everything of lasting value that can be adapted to circumstances, and to accept the positive contribution of feminism in order to improve the apostolic yield. (Emphasis mine). Had this been written under Pope Pius XII, Suenens would have been censured. Roncalli's favorite Modernist had been very careful to keep his Modernism close to his vest and only speak as a Catholic, until it was safe to show his true colors.
The results of his book and the "reforms" he pushed through at Vatican II were felt almost immediately. Here's what was reported in The Ladies Home Journal in 1967--a scant five years after Suenens' book and only two years after the Robber Council ended:
It began in the winter of 1962-63, when the spark of the Second Vatican Council caught fire around the world, when, in his memorable encyclical, Pacem in Terris, Pope John XXIII preached a modern revolution of truth, justice, freedom and love. That same winter, a remarkable book appeared, called The Nun in the World. Written by Belgium’s Cardinal Suenens, considered one of the Church’s leading progressives, it called upon nuns everywhere to emerge from their convents and play a more active role in easing the tensions and problems not only of the Roman Catholic Church, but of all mankind.
“A community of nuns often gives the impression of being a fortress whose drawbridge is only furtively and fearfully lowered,” wrote Cardinal Suenens. “Her world shrinks, and, if she is not careful, will end up no more than a few square yards in size…The religious of today appears to the faithful to be out of touch with the world as it is, an anachronism.” Cardinal Suenens’ book swiftly became, according to scholars Edward Wakin and Father Joseph F. Scheuer, “a manifesto for progressive-thinking nuns in America.”
According to reliable estimates, at least 3,600 professed sisters left their convents for good. These were not uncertain novices or postulants, but mature women who had taken their vows and served the Church for years. Most importantly, they did not leave because they did not want to be “religious” any longer—but because they did...Here are some of the things they told me:
• “I just thought I’d be more of a Christian if I left. Instead of saying that I want what Christ wants, I began to feel that the good things I want might be the same as what Christ wants.”
• “I left to be free, to be able to live my own rhythm. Now life is new. It’s like being a newborn baby in a fifty-year-old body. Before, I didn’t know what I meant to be a citizen of the United States.”
• “I had to leave the convent to do what I entered it to do—live for others.”
• “Being a sister is great when you are young. But once you start observing older sisters, you begin to see where it all leads. I started to wonder how long it would take me to become as bitter as some of them.”
(Taken from unamsanctamcatholicam.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/the-nuns-that-quit.pdf)
As to the radicalized nuns who remain:
Amidst the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s, many nuns felt their vows called them to dedicate themselves to social causes. Sister Helen Prejean explains how she came to lead a life devoted to reforming the prison system: “Start looking at the signs of the times, look at where the people are suffering, look at where the people are in need," Prejean says. "And I'm kind of a story, or an embodiment, of what happened to nuns out of Vatican II, because it brought me eventually to poor people in New Orleans and to death row.” Given broadened autonomy in convent life, nuns found themselves posed as radicals, living a communitarian life aside from the confines of a modern capitalist society. Adam Horwitz, a millennial activist whose “Nuns and Nones” program puts young social justice advocates into convents— living with and learning from nuns—explains, "These are radical, badass women who have lived lives devoted to social justice,” said Mr. Bradley, "and we can learn from them.” (See studiotheatre.org/plays/play-detail/2019-2020-doubt/religious-radicals; Emphasis mine)
Suenens asked Jeanne-Paule Marie Deckers, a former nun who wrote a hit song Dominique in 1962, to write songs for the so-called "Catholic Charismatic Movement." Deckers wrote a song in praise of contraception, blasphemously called Glory be to God for the Golden Pill in 1967, which is what caught Suenens' attention. Deckers would become a lesbian and, falling into financial problems, she and her lesbian lover would commit suicide together in 1985.
Suenens: A Charismatic Apostate
In 1967, during the nascent Vatican II sect turmoil of ecumenical frenzy and near universal apostasy, students at Pittsburgh’s Duquesne University began exposing themselves to Pentecostal influences because of "spiritual aridity." They were envious of the "changed lives" among many Protestant friends and decided to pray for similar "graces." A weekend "retreat" gave them what they wanted. Various people approached Protestant ministers, laity, and prayer groups. All received "Baptism in the Spirit" after having heretical hands laid on them in prayer. The movement began to grow in leaps and bounds. Today, they even call themselves "Charismatics" instead of Catholics, showing their disdain for even the name of the sect posing as the True Church. They despise anything associated--even remotely--with the beliefs and practices of authentic Catholicism. The Vatican II sect allowed them to form groups and spread their heresies as a "Charismatic Movement." Suenens almost immediately became their number one supporter.
For the 50th anniversary of the Catholic (sic) Charismatic Movement (CCM) in June 2017, Francis asked the Charismatics to organize the celebration at the Circus Maximus in Rome. On this occasion, Bergoglio quoted the late Belgian "Cardinal" Leo Suenens, the strongest episcopal promoter of the movement in its early days, who called it "a current of grace, a renewing breath of the Spirit for all the members of the Church." (See ncregister.com/daily-news/vatican-creates-new-office-to-serve-catholic-charismatic-renewal-movement)
For the 50th anniversary of the Catholic (sic) Charismatic Movement (CCM) in June 2017, Francis asked the Charismatics to organize the celebration at the Circus Maximus in Rome. On this occasion, Bergoglio quoted the late Belgian "Cardinal" Leo Suenens, the strongest episcopal promoter of the movement in its early days, who called it "a current of grace, a renewing breath of the Spirit for all the members of the Church." (See ncregister.com/daily-news/vatican-creates-new-office-to-serve-catholic-charismatic-renewal-movement)
According to Church teaching, the charismata or "special gifts" of the Holy Ghost such as prophecies, healings, miracles, etc., were given to prove the claims of the Church and to foster conversions. With the achievement of the Church’s moral universality, the need for such phenomena ceased because of the presence in the Church of people of every nationality and because of the Church’s proven record as the One True Religion. Likewise, speaking in tongues was given so that all could hear and understand the preaching of the Gospel. None of these gifts were given for the personal sanctification of the individuals who received them. St. Augustine, Tract. xxxii, states, "Whereas even now the Holy Ghost is received, yet no one speaks in the tongues of all nations, because the Church herself already speaks in the languages of all nations: since whoever is not in the Church, receives not the Holy Ghost."
According to theologian Scheeben: The internal perfection [of the Apostles] arose from the fact of their being eye-witnesses and ear-witnesses of the whole Revelation, and of their being so filled with the Holy Ghost that each of them possessed a complete and infallible knowledge of revealed doctrine; while the external perfection was the gift of miracles, by which they were able to confirm the authenticity of their testimony...As soon as the original and fundamental promulgation of the Gospel was complete there was no longer any necessity for the extraordinary Apostolate. (See A Manual of Catholic Theology, [1890], 1:37-38; Emphasis mine).
Theologian Van Noort teaches: Therefore, as apostles, each of them had (a) a direct divine mission to carry out both of the aforementioned tasks all over the world. Furthermore, (b) they enjoyed the charisms (1) of revelation, (2) of infallibility (in matters pertaining to their mission), and (3) of miracles. The apostolate was, to begin with, by its very nature an extraordinary gift, confided to these men alone. (See Dogmatic Theology, [1961], 1:39; First emphasis in original, second emphasis mine). In end-note #19, Van Noort references the work of heretical theologian Oscar Cullmann (d.1999). Cullmann, a member of the Lutheran sect, was an "observer" at Vatican II and a driving force behind the One World Church ecumenical movement. Cullmann advanced the heretical view that apostolic grace must perish with the Apostles or survive them in its entirety. Van Noort responds that the dilemma is resolved in Catholic theology by distinguishing between a mission of the Apostles which is an extraordinary, noncommunicable charism relating to the founding of the Church, and an ordinary communicable and non-miraculous charism relating to the preservation of the Church. It is only the latter that is carried down through the ages by the Apostolic Succession of Catholic bishops.
The charismata is therefore not in use after the founding of the Church. Yes, there have been certain saints in the Church that had various miraculous gifts, but this is not (as the Charismatics claim) true of all members of the Church. The vast majority are devoid of any miraculous deeds.
The CCM is heretical to the core, and has its origin in the Pentecostal Protestant sect of the 19th century. The Pentecostal sect revived what they believed to be glossolaly or "speaking in tongues." On the Feast of the Immaculate Conception 2018, false pope Jorge Bergoglio announced the formation of "CHARIS," or "Catholic Charismatic Renewal International Service." This new body within the Dicastery for Laity, Family and Life will replace the two existing services known as the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Service and the Catholic Fraternity.
Why would Suenens care so much about the CCM? One word: Ecumenism.
Leading the People into a One World Religion
There are four major problems with the Charismatic Movement:
1. It implicitly denies there is only One True Church.
If these "gifts" of the Holy Ghost (allegedly speaking in tongues, "healings," etc.) are true in the "Catholic" Church and they also happen in various Protestant denominations, then it stands to reason that there are "elements of truth and sanctification" outside the True Church by which people can achieve holiness and salvation. (Sound familiar?).
2. It replaces the hierarchy with an alleged direct contact with God, and denies the Indefectibility of the Church.
Priests are seen as "one of the guys." Being able to roll on the ground "speaking in tongues" is more important than the ability to offer the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Charismatics will also say things like, "God has put it on my heart that I should..." Or, "God told me..." If you have direct contact with God, why do we need the Church and Her hierarchy as intermediaries between God and people? If the Church teaches one thing, but God has supposedly told you something different, guess which one will be obeyed. The charismatics also deny Indefectibility by claiming that an integral part of the Church (charismata) was absent for centuries, so the Church was somehow deficient. This is impossible if the Church is Indefectible.
3. It denies traditional Catholic spirituality and leads to deception (and even possession) by evil spirits.
Say goodbye to the Rosary, novenas, and The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius. St. John of the Cross, one of the greatest masters of the spiritual life had this to say:
- "And I greatly fear what is happening in these times of ours: If any soul whatever after a bit of meditation has in its recollection one of these locutions, it will immediately baptize all as coming from God and with such a supposition say, 'God told me,' 'God answered me.' Yet this is not so, but, as we pointed out, these persons themselves are more often the origin of their locution." (See St. John of the Cross: The Ascent of Mount Carmel. Book II Ch. 29)
- "Through the desire of accepting them one opens the door to the devil. The devil can then deceive one by other communications expertly feigned and disguised as genuine. In the words of the Apostle, he can transform himself into an 'angel of light' (II Cor. XI:14). (...) Regardless of the cause of these apprehensions, it is always good for a man to reject them with closed eyes. If he fails to do so, he will make room for those having a diabolical origin and empower the devil to impose his communications. Not only this, but the diabolical representations will multiply while those from God will gradually cease, so that eventually all will come from the devil and none at all from God. This has occurred with many incautious and uninstructed people." (See St. John of the Cross: The Ascent of Mount Carmel. Book II Ch. 11)
4. It has the same goal as Modernism and Masonry: A One World Church Without Catholicism
Charismaticism is pan-denominational, with an alien and non-Catholic theological idea of "baptism in the Holy Spirit" as if you come into direct contact with God. It vitiates the need for the Mass and Sacraments. It is also rooted in the Modernist ideal of experience over reason. Charismatics cannot give a reasoned theological explanation of how jumping, dancing, rolling on the floor, laughing uncontrollably, and (allegedly) speaking in tongues brings one closer to God or even why God would manifest Himself in behaviors usually associated with mental patients. Finally, your beliefs don't matter. As long as you profess belief in some vague form of "Christianity" (The Great Architect of the Universe, perhaps), you are all part of "the Church" and can have an "experience of God."
Conclusion
My spiritual father, the late, great canonist Fr. Gommar A. DePauw, showed me a picture taken at Vatican II with himself standing between Bishop Blaise Kurz and "Cardinal" Suenens. Father was one of the theological experts (a peritus) at Vatican II who helped Bp. Kurz and the other traditional prelates who fought the Modernists. Fr. DePauw was heartbroken that a fellow Belgian would work to destroy the very Church he loved so much and served so well. He and Bp. Kurz spoke in private with Cardinal Suenens in a long meeting during which they implored him to repent of his Modernism and return to the Catholic Faith. Suenens turned a deaf ear and showed them the door, asking that they never come back to talk to him.
Today, as a result of Vatican II and the Charismatic movement, the percentage of Belgians who claim to be Catholic (V2 sect) is less than 60%. Only 5% attend the Novus Bogus "mass" on Sundays, and nearly one-third of Belgians declare themselves atheists or agnostics. The ravages of the Charismatic movement are not limited to Belgium. What Suenens started is nothing less than the rejection of anything even remotely Catholic, and he wanted the True Church to be replaced by a One World Church of "direct experiences of God." This is pure Modernism.
Suenens was one of the principle architects of Vatican II and the damnable documents Lumen Gentium and Gaudium et Spes. His promotion of worldly life and his blasphemous writings have helped decimate the religious vocation, and his teachings led nuns of the 1960s to abandon their vocations and become radicals. His CCM helps destroy traditional Catholic teaching and promote ecumenism. Suenens, a Villain of Vatican II, went to judgement in 1996. I shudder to think of his fate if he did not sincerely repent. Suenens promoted speaking in tongues. Like the "cardinal's" master, Satan, the tongue with which he spoke was decidedly forked.
Dear Introibo,
ReplyDeleteAn earthquake just struck my province of Cebu last Sept. 30.
Firstly, what is the Catholic teaching on paranormal and ghosts? I usually get the Ephesians 6 12 vibe when I read on paranormal.
Secondly, what was the relationship between the Latin and Byzantine churches?
Thirdly, what about a group called Jocists founded by a Belgian cardinal?
Sincerely, Ryan
Ryan,
DeletePraying for all earthquake survivors and for the souls of any who died. I hope your famil, friends, and you are all OK!
1. A great book, which I also recommend to a commenter below is "Ghosts and Poltergeists" by theologian Thurston--along with "Occult Phenomena in the Light of Theology" by theologian Wiesenger.
2. It depends. Sometimes quite volatile and sometimes peaceful.
3. They were the most influential wing of the Catholic Action movement, which came about circa early 1920s. Basically, a good group at that time.
God Bless,
---Introibo
In Pope Leo XIII's vision, Satan demanded time and power to destroy the Church, and he used men like Suenens to do so. And we see the result today.
ReplyDeleteIt should also be mentioned that “The Singing Nun” and her lesbian partner were given “Catholic” funerals despite their suicide. The celebrating priest even said: “He who judges a human being without appeal judges himself and immediately condemns himself. God alone judges, for he alone knows the secrets of the heart.” This is typical of Bergoglio: “Who am I to judge ?”
Simon,
DeleteYes, they received a "mass" and funeral. In the external forum, they lived evil lives and should not have been lauded.
God Bless, my friend
---Introibo
I am wondering when it is that he was turned to modernism. Came from a wealthy family but decided to become a priest, then ended up being one of the most effective apostates of all time ? Was he recruited, perhaps, by one of Stalin's anti-apostles or was his family already involved in masonry, and thus was compromised from the start ?
ReplyDeleteInteresting commment. I think you right, many wealthy infiltrates. They can do as they please when not in their ape role. Wasn't Fr DePauw family wealthy too? Didn't he purchase the chapel? So if a wealthy real priest can't buy a chapel near you, we are exposed to the evil NO world AD NAUSEUM.
DeleteThanks Introibo! I was duped and suffered oppression by a NO charismatic false priest. I almost lost my life after a "healing mass"...oh and if Steven Speray reads this...he claimed to get his '"healing powers" from Our Lady Guadeloupe! Another falsity! There are many of these charismatic in DC diocese so BEWARE!
cairsahr__stjoseph
DeleteCheck out the comment by Grace below!
God Bless,
---Introibo
@anon2:05
DeleteSo glad you (by the Grace of God) came out of all that!
(Yes, Fr. DePauw came from a very wealthy Belgian family; but he was the antithesis of Suenens!).
God Bless,
---Introibo
From this website:
ReplyDeletehttps://anticattocomunismo.wordpress.com/2011/12/18/demolation-men/
In 1969 he became the standard bearer of an appeal by Hans Kung against ecclesiastical celibacy, precisely in the years in which “sexual liberation”, also understood to include pedophilia, took center stage, outside and inside the Catholic world.
Today the fruits of Suenens' work are evident: the Belgian seminaries have emptied, starting precisely from the years of his teaching; the University of Louvain, of which Suenens was also rector, refuses to define itself as ’Catholic“ again; Belgium is a secularized and anti-Christian country like few others in the world, with a very high rate of family disintegration; the large part of pedophilia crimes in the Belgian church, as demonstrated recently, they can be ascribed, not without reason, “especially to the sixties”, that is, to the time of his reforms (Republika, 10/09/2010).
Wikipedia:
In June 2010, Belgian police raided the tomb of Cardinal Leo Jozef Suenens, along with that of Cardinal Jozef-Ernest Van Roey, during a search for documents related to allegations of child sex abuse by priests and potential cover-ups within the Catholic Church in Belgium.
From this website:
https://ephesians511blog.com/2016/10/09/cardinal-leon-jozef-suenens-charismatic-freemason-and-liberal/
In September, 1978, during the brief pontificate of Pope Luciani (Pope John Paul I), the “List of Pecorelli” appeared on “OP”
(Political Observer), the magazine of lawyer Mino Pecorelli.
It was not a great surprise for Father Luigi Villa (Chiesa Viva) to read many names of senior officials as they had already been removed from their positions, some time before, since he had provided the documents to the Holy Office of their membership in Freemasonry.
One of the most famous cases was that one of Cardinal Joseph Suenens, driven from his headquarters in Brussels because he was found to be a Mason. He was also married and living with a son named Paul!
107. Suenens, Leo. Cardinal
Title: Protector of the Church of St. Peter in Chains, outside Rome.
Paul VI, at Vatican II, chose as moderators to replace the presidents appointed by John XXIII, Cardinal Agagianian, a cardinal of colorless personality from the Curia, and Cardinals Lercaro, SUENENS, and Dopfner, all three liberals and the pope’s friends.
Promotes Protestant Pentecostalism (Charismatics)
Destroyed much Church dogma when he worked in 3 Sacred Congregations: 1) Propagation of the Faith; 2) Rites and Ceremonies in the Liturgy; 3) Seminaries
Was responsible for initiating the practice of communion in the hand. The practice of communion-in-the-hand was “first introduced in Belgium by Cardinal Suenens, in flagrant disobedience to the rubrics given by the Holy See. Not wishing to publicly reprove a brother bishop, Paul VI decided to lift the ban prohibiting Holy Communion in the hand, leaving the decision to individual bishops” (Dietrich Von Hildebrand, The Latin Mass Society, Nov 1995).
Date initiated into Masonry:
6-15-67
Code number:
21-64
Code name:
LESU
Grace
DeleteMuch to look over here! Thank you for the links!!
God Bless,
---Introibo
Thank you Introibo for the important work you do each week, in researching and preparing your articles, on topics that expose and alert us to the Spiritual dangers we face everyday. God Bless you!
DeleteGrace
DeleteThank you so much! Comments like yours keep me writing!
God Bless,
---Introibo
So he was made a mason only in 1967 ? I would have thought it long before.
DeleteMy guess he was a communist long before, and the 1967 initiation was just a formality.
His family wanting him to run the family fortune but he deciding to be a priest instead sounds like "the official story". Perhaps being on the side of the revolution runs in the family. With his wealth, he didn't need ties to masonry.
I doubt he ever had a real vocation, rather than being corrupted along the way. Speculation, but not improbable.
cairsahr__stjoseph
DeleteYour speculation is definitely a possibility!
God Bless,
---Introibo
Many years ago, I went out for a night with some friends. There were some people who I knew who were doing a social event and there were others I knew who were doing a church event. Many people were very much into the “Catholic” Charismatic Movement. Even then, I was very much against it and I went against people I knew who supported this strange phenomenon. But I said to myself, “Okay, I want to see this firsthand myself.” I chose to go to the church event (perhaps I should have chosen the social event). I did not go to join them because I was onboard with this but rather because I wanted to see this and observe it very carefully.
ReplyDeleteThe behavior of people at these charismatic events is extremely bizarre. Basically, everyone does whatever they feel “The Spirit is leading them to do.” They had instruments that did not belong in a church. Drums were constantly being beat on. One person got up and laid prostrate right in front of the tabernacle. Another person got up and lied against the Novus Ordo pillar of the “so called altar”. People were babbling with their “gifts of tongues”. The whole event was goofy and incredibly stupid, but underneath it all it was of course deceptive and demonic. Even years ago, I was familiar with Suenens being the primary person who spawned this nonsense within the institutional church. But I wanted to go and observe this for myself.
There are unfortunately many people I know who are involved in the charismatic movement. I have argued against them and tried to show them the error of their ways many times, but once they get sucked into it, they do not come out of it. At least, that has been my experience. There was one individual I was debating this issue with. I told him that these extraordinary gifts were only given to the early church and once the church grew, they ceased in the post-apostolic age because there was no more need for them. There were exceptions here and there such as St. Francis Xavier, etc., but for the most part, they were done (just like Introibo illustrated with St. Augustine, Scheeben, and Van Noort). I told this guy that you do not see any of this behavior among the early church fathers, nor the medieval theologians, nor mystics like St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross, nor later saints like St. John Bosco. I told him that prior to Dequesne University in 1967 in Pittsburgh, you never saw this anywhere. He just looked dumbfounded and said, “But it is biblical” and went right back to the ‘Acts of the Apostles.’ I explained to him about Charles Parham and the movement’s roots within Pentecostalism and how it’s funny this came about in the 1960’s right after Vatican II. The guy just didn’t get it because after all “but it’s biblical” was all he had.
CONTINUED…I said to him, “So why didn’t we have St. Augustine rolling around on the floor or St. Thomas Aquinas jumping up and down constantly or St. Teresa of Avila doing baby babble (that’s how I referred to it as), or St. John Bosco laughing uncontrollably.” He just had a blank stare on his face. I said “Whatever anyone says or does, they will justify it by stating that ‘The Spirit’ led them to say or do this or that thing. What if I said that ‘The Spirit’ told me to punch you in the face because you were being led by a false spirit and I had to beat it out of you?” My point was that none of these actions could be justified. I showed him that one person could say “The Spirit” led him to do this while another person claimed “The Spirit” led him to do this other thing. I said, “Without a person guided by the Magisterium (and reason!), who is to say that this person is correct and that person is not? This is just like ‘Sola Scriptura’ where every Protestant interprets the Bible for himself.” He said, “Well, there are well trained interpreters who can determine what is truly coming from ‘The Spirit’ and what is not.” I wanted to laugh in his face and I think he knew it! But to this day, he and many others believe this stuff and there is no telling them any differently. I know MANY people that have been taken in by this and one person I know personally has been SEVERLY messed up by this stuff (and he was further messed up by going to MANY 12 steps programs too!). This is putting an experience over theological Truths of the Faith and reason. Not good and so sad!
ReplyDelete-TradWarrior
TradWarrior
DeleteThank you for that powerful testimony, my friend! What you say is true; the "spirit" leading the CCM is anything BUT "holy." People get involved at the risk of their soul.
God Bless,
---Introibo
There was a lot of back and forth discussions on last week’s post with Feeneyites. I’m not sure if everyone saw it but please read my post on there from last week that dealt with a Feeneyite going for a job interview. Many people found it hilarious (and it is!). That may have been my best post ever on Introibo’s blog! It is certainly WAY up there! It is humorous (and we all need a little humor in these dark times we are living through), but it is also factual with so many people out there who have been drawn into the Feeneyites strange world in which they live.
ReplyDeleteIntroibo, I agree with you that what I wrote last week could definitely be a comedy skit!
Joanna, I did read your comment to what I wrote too and I enjoyed it! You are completely correct with your assessment of the movie “Rocky.” I will take this further.
Reasons why Feeneyites would not like the “Rocky” movies:
Rocky:
He was scantily clad. He abused his body by being punched in the head. He spoke with a speech impediment (therefore his parents must have sinned as the Pharisees mentioned in Jesus’s day). He drove a car recklessly. He worked for a loan shark. He abused his hands and body by punching meat. He punched people in the head for a living.
Conclusion by the Feeneyites: Rocky is in hell.
Adrian:
She continued to work at a pet store while she was pregnant and slipped into a coma. She should not have been doing that kind of work (even though they needed the money) but rather have stayed home. She also yelled at Rocky on the beach and was not submissive to him.
Conclusion by the Feeneyites: Adrian is in hell.
Paulie:
He is a drunk and doesn’t take care of himself. He is verbally and physically abusive at times to Rocky and Adrian. He is responsible for them losing their house and their money.
Conclusion by the Feeneyites: Paulie is in hell.
Apollo Creed:
He is named after a false god and he follows a false creed. We do not even need to go any further. His name says it all!
Conclusion by the Feeneyites: Apollo Creed is in hell.
Clubber Lang:
He made improper remarks to Adrian and was responsible for Mickey being shoved down and dying. He shoved down a reporter on the way to the ring and he cared only about himself.
Conclusion by the Feeneyites: Clubber Lang is in hell.
Mickey Goldmill:
He was Jewish and died Jewish in the external forum.
Conclusion by the Feeneyites: Mickey Goldmill is in hell.
CONTINUED…Ivan Drago:
ReplyDeleteHe injects himself with steroids and he went way overboard in a simple exhibition match by killing Apollo Creed.
Conclusion by the Feeneyites: Ivan Drago is in hell.
The Soviet crowd in Moscow:
Despite the fact that they changed over the course of the fight (as Rocky said, “If you can change, and I can change, EVERYBODY CAN CHANGE!”) and they cheered Rocky at the end of the movie, they remained Soviets in the external forum.
Conclusion by the Feeneyites: The Soviet crowd is in hell.
I write this humorously but it is a good example of repeated behavior that I have seen from people over the years. There have been several scenarios (many times!) where I have been in conversations with people and the entire crux of the issue was missed because ‘In Medio Stat Veritas’ was something that people had long ago forgotten. I have been part of heated discussions and debates where two opposing sides were “going at it” and both sides were going to extremes on opposite ends of the spectrum and it was only getting worse and worse! In some cases, I was not even part of one side or the other side, but rather I was trying to show that both parties went WAY off base and ‘In Medio Stat Veritas’ was desperately needed to bring people back to sanity.
I like how Introibo has written several times on his blog (over a plethora of issues) that ‘In Medio Stat Veritas’ is very important to remember. And he is completely correct – it is important!
There are some people that will reject all forms of entertainment and there are other people who will watch every modern (and garbage) form of entertainment and they both are vehemently arguing with each other and they both miss the bigger point. There are some things that are clearly sinful but in other scenarios, there are things that are not sinful at all, yet one side will oppose the other of committing sins A, B, C, and D and damn them to hell immediately. Prudence is important and following the teachings of the Catholic Church is vitally important, but where there can be areas of disagreement, let there by “healthy” discussions and disagreement.
(I will respond for the Feeneyites so that they do not have to – I am a John 3:5 mocker, I should be called the ecumenical warrior, and I am the false “trad” warrior worlding. There, I hope they feel better now.)
-TradWarrior
TradWarrior,
DeleteWell done! But the Dimondites will not feel better; happiness comes from Satan in this world. As to Rocky, everyone went to Hell because Mickey was a secret Jew (never found out until Rocky III) working (as every Jew does) for the destruction of all things good, noble, and true. He even comes back from Hell torment Rocky in Rocky V, and urges him to fight when he was injured!
God Bless you, fellow John 3:5 mocking, ecumenical apostate!
---Introibo
LOL, you guys are awesome!
DeleteI'm glad I'm not the only one that familiar with the Rocky franchise.
God Bless You my fellow worldlings!
Joanna
P. S. The Dimondites secretly rooted for Drago!
Introibo,what Catholic books do you suggest one read on the subject of ghosts and the paranormal?God bless
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteCyrus,
DeleteI cannot edit your post--please remove and repost!
God Bless,
---Introibo
@anon4:40
Delete"Ghosts and Poltergeists" by theologian Thurston--along with "Occult Phenomena in the Light of Theology" by theologian Wiesenger.
God Bless,
---Introibo
As someone who was involved in the occult quite heavily, I would steer away from anything related to the paranormal, ghost, magic(k), and anything related to it. Speaking from personal experience, it only leads one further and further into the darkness. I would suggest reading good, Catholic spiritual books like "The Spiritual Combat and a Treatise on Peace of Soul" by Scupoli, or "An Introduction to the Devout Life" by Saint Francis de Sales. Reading these books will lead you to holiness and peace, something that I'm working on myself. O, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me a sinner.
DeleteCyrus,
DeleteI agree with you not to read about the occult UNLESS it is to learn how to expose and combat it! So glad, by the grace of God, you escaped the occult!
"The Spiritual Combat and a Treatise on Peace of Soul" by Scupoli is my favorite spiritual book of all time!
God Bless,
---Introibo
Introibo, I'm actually reading The Spiritual Combat by Scupoli as part of my 30-day St. Joseph Purity and Chastity Battle with readings from a number of books. After I'm done with the Purity and Chastity Battle, I'll be doing the Consecration to Jesus through Mary with Consecration Day being on December 8th, the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception. I ask that you and your readers prayer for me as I work on these very important and necessary devotions.
DeleteAlso, you make a good point about understanding and knowing the occult and how we, as true Catholics, need to be prepared for this ongoing spiritual battle. So much of our culture is infused with the occult that it's almost like breathing air or drinking water for most of us. Perhaps this is something I need to take a look at and consult with my priest about. He is familiar with my occult past. Thoughts?
DeleteCyrusD78,
DeleteI hope that your 30-day spiritual exercise is fruitful. Thank you for your recent testimony on GA. That's wonderful you are making the Total Consecration to Jesus through Mary. I'll be praying for you.
God bless you,
S.T.
Thank you! I need all the prayers to keep me on track.
DeleteCyrus
DeleteI write frequently on the occult to expose it and warn of its dangers. You are right; we must combat it--we live in an Occult Invasion since the Great Apostasy was unleashed.
Consult with your priest and only do as he advises. If he thinks that with your past involvement you should not be reading up on it--you should do as he says. Only read approved theologians like the ones I cited--not "popular" condemnations you see sometimes in stores, and do not come from a truly Catholic point of view.
Congratulations on your Consecration to Jesus through Mary! I completed mine years ago on the feast of the Assumption.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Have you read about the murder of a little boy named Logan Tipton? It wasn’t an Irish dairy farmer from Wisconsin who did it. It was a black savage home invader who stabbed him to death and just got off because they say the feral beast was “insane”. The “Justice” system you are apart of is a disgrace. Your antiwhite sentiments are part of the problem as well.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to be that person... But how do we know you are not a FED?
Delete@anon11:07
DeleteOk, what's YOUR major malfunction? Dimondite? Hitler Fanboy? Both?
I have no problem with people who write off the topic of the post as long as they stay on something relevant to being a Traditionalist, e.g., commentary on Prevost's comparison of abortion to capital punishment, etc.
Nor do I mind questions about the Faith; I answer as best I can after putting in the research.
Your comment (a) attacks me personally, (b) is totally unrelated to Traditionalism, and (c) is not asking a sincere question about the faith.
I have "antiwhite sentiments"? I am of white European descent. Where in this post did I denigrate anyone because of race (white, black, or other)??
I don't know about the "feral beast" being insane, but if you live in NYC, here's information about the Manhattan Psychiatric Center: omh.ny.gov/omhweb/facilities/mapc/
Please go there, take your meds, and find a new blog to visit.
---Introibo
Introibo
DeleteWhy these sick folk come on your website is beyond me.I have never read such garbage.Please block any more of this.The other coments are always good.
On a different subject as you live in the Big Apple,have you ever been to Smith and Wollensky steakhouse?They clim to have the best steaks in NY.
Introibo,it should say they claim to have the best steaks in NY.Thanks
Delete@anon11:28
DeleteI rate them #2 of all time and #1 in NYC. Smith and Wollensky make a very credible claim! #1 was a small little family owned steakhouse in Maine. If you blink, you would miss it. I stopped because I was famished. BEST. STEAK. EVER. (I will not name it however as the owner knows me now--I have gone back several times since!!)
God Bless,
---Introibo
People can say all criminals are insane. What people in their right minds commit heinous murder? But we don’t say that because these horrible criminals must be held fully accountable for their actions. Modern psychology will give you junk science to explain so called chemical imbalances. None of it is true or believable. Death penalty, hard labor, maximum security mental hospitals NOW!!!!
ReplyDelete@anon4:22
DeleteAssuming you're responding to the comment above, I agree that the vast majority of criminals are sane and I favor the death penalty.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Hello Introibo from far away England.Great piece of writing as always.Perhaps in the future if you have time,more expose of these evil men like above.Thank you
ReplyDeleteI have a question fot TradWarrior.I found your thoughts regarding the dating and marriage situation very interesting.I was at peace to know you and others have had a bad time too.I am 29 and still single.Someone made the comment about being rejected by a woman and having her flaunt her new boyfriend in front of them by sitting in front them at church with the father present.That relationship never proceeded to marriage and then she comes back to pursue them.What would you do?Would you like to be treated 2nd best.Introibo comment was to tell her to get lost.I would value your thoughts.
I attend the SSPX here in England as there are no other options available at the present time.
Our Lady Queen of the Most Holy Rosary,pray for us
God bless
@anon7:13pm
DeleteThank you for writing to me. Do not feel bad about being 29 and still single. There are more single people today than ever before and they are all different ages. You are perfectly fine.
What would I have done had that situation happened to me? I would not have gone back with that girl. I echo Introibo and would have told her to get lost. I’m not sure I would use that exact wording, but no, I would not go back with her.
It is very hard to find someone like yourself today. You don’t want to settle for less and you may find someone right, but just not right for you. Introibo has written on this topic several times before. I go back to my previous post where I mention the sampling of people that came into my life (and there have been more than just the ones that I listed).
Female #1 was not right for me. She wanted to marry me but I knew that we were not meant to be together. She took the breakup very hard. She is married today. I hope she’s happy.
Female #2 and I never dated but we had so many things in common that it was absolutely unreal! She is married today. Is she happy in the life she chose? I have no idea. That whole situation with her will bother me until the day I die. There is no other way around it. There is much more to that story than I shared in my previous post, but I will leave the rest of it private.
Female #3 was more of a friend/acquaintance and I didn’t see myself marrying her. Her mom certainly wanted us married (just like Female #1’s parents wanted us married) but this was just not going to happen. She is in a Novus Ordo religious order and I saw her going in that direction years ago. She most likely will never become a Sedevacantist (although anything is certainly possible). She knows that I gave her so much information that demonstrated that Sedevacantism was the only true position. She admitted it made perfect sense. And then she goes and becomes a Novus Ordo nun. In the words of Charlie Brown, “Good Grief!”
Female #4 was a Sedevacantist. I could not figure her out, she had some other personal hang-ups that I did not like, and I don’t care if I ever see her again.
Female #5 I hope to see one day again. That entire situation remains a mystery.
I have resigned myself solely to God’s will as best I can. I know that in my own personal situation, it is very likely that I will be single for my entire life. If this is where I am meant to be then fine, I will accept it. I have not ruled out marriage and children but it seems like it would have probably already happened. I could be wrong though. Discerning God’s will can be very difficult. There were times when I really felt that God was leading me in this direction or that direction and then the situation ended extremely badly. There were situations in my life where I felt very strongly that I was following God’s positive will for me in my life and I was very close to finding real happiness, but instead they ended really badly and I saw that it was God’s permissible will for me, where He allowed me to go through hardships. I guess this was to strengthen my Faith, but so much of life remains a mystery that we will never understand it, this side of heaven. It can be very painful!
I just try to be the best person I can be and live the best possible life I can. I pray a lot and try to remain as open as possible to wherever God is leading me. My most important thing in life is trying to grow in holiness and to keep learning more and more about the Faith. If marriage and children are meant to happen, then one day they will. If not, I will continue down the single vocation and try and grow holier and holier as best I can.
I hope this advice helped you.
Please feel free to write anytime.
God bless you my friend.
-TradWarrior
TradWarrior's Feeneyite vs Rocky analysis is hilarious. Goes to show that there are opponents even the great Rocky cannot withstand.
ReplyDeleteIf they've ever watched "Scarface" I'd like their prognosis for Al Pacino's character. Surely -he- must have prevailed; yes, no ?
cairsahr__stjoseph
DeleteIn "Feeneyland" no one prevails except Fred and Bobby!
God Bless,
---Introibo
Hi TradWarrior
ReplyDeleteA good reply to that english man's question.
I would be interested to know your reasons why if you were in that situation with a woman who rejected you for another man who then flaunted him with the dad present which then ends and then comes back to pursue him,why you would not want anything to do with her.
Thanks
R
R,
DeleteI would not want anything to do with a female who broke up with me and then used her dad and new boyfriend to flaunt the situation. It shows incredible immaturity on her part and lacks all charity. It’s one thing if the relationship didn’t work out. It’s another thing to have her and the new boyfriend in the pew right in front of you and her dad smirking the whole time, knowing that it is causing me additional pain. I would say to myself, “I don’t need someone like her and I certainly wouldn’t want a future father-in-law like her dad.” I would wish them well and be done with the situation.
-TradWarrior
False “trad” warrior makes up his own morality as it pertains to the modern times. He wants the pleasures of the world while pretending to be “trad”. You’re upset that people can see right through this phoniness, this false charity, and this degeneracy.
ReplyDelete@anon10:45am,
DeleteOkay, let me try and explain this again. I will go back to last week’s post. A Feeneyite labeled me a John 3:5 mocker and made other disparaging remarks. I responded and will basically repeat this again. What is the purpose of your writing? In other words, what is the goal that you are trying to achieve? If is to try and convert me (and others) to your side, you clearly do not understand how to engage a person in conversation and no one will be inclined to join your side. You people (Feeneyites) constantly say things like, “You are a John 3:5 mocker. You are a liar. You are a fraud. You are ecumenical and worldly.” And on and on and on. You have said this to me, Introibo, Steve Speray, and many, many others. Again, I go back to what I wrote last week. Go back and read it. The response that I wrote back to that Feeneyite (whoever that was) displayed a lot of class and charity. If you started a discussion like that (as even well-mannered children know how to do), you would stand a MUCH greater chance of winning someone over to your side. Even though I am not coming over the Feeneyite side, the point is, it could start a very healthy discussion and could be very thought provoking as two people engage each other in a meaningful conversation.
Christ did not go around talking to people the way you Feeneyites did. If He had done so, He would have had NO followers. His Sacred Heart is what led others to join Him. Feeneyites do not know how to engage people in normal conversation. In the real world, if a Feeneyite were to go for a job interview in the manner in which you speak, you would not even be considered for the job. Read my other post last week that I wrote entitled, “A Feeneyite Goes For A Job Interview.” What I wrote was very humorous but time after time after time, people have witnessed behavior like this from this group of people. It is strange, bizarre, and not Christ like (and I personally believe demonic).
Ask yourself another question, why do you not see other people on this blog acting like you do? They engage each other in normal, charitable conversations. The discussions are very good. Why are the Feeneyites time and time again the only oddballs who can’t seem to grasp how to speak to others in a charitable manner? I asked questions like this in my one comment last week and no Feeneyite answered. If you are trying to draw people to your side, it will never happen because you do not know how to speak to others. Do you know why this is? Can you figure it out? It is honestly not that hard. Here, let me help you. It’s because:
F_ENEYIT_S H_VE N_ CH_RITY
Would you like to buy a vowel?
-TradWarrior
TradWarrior
DeleteNicely said but it won't register with them. Dimondites are Feeneyites taken to new levels of insanity and heresy.
They have a sickness of soul and sickness of mind.
God Bless you, my friend
---Introibo
I do not think Trad Warrior is anything like you describe anon 10:45
ReplyDelete@anon2:12pm
DeleteThank you for the kind words. I appreciate them.
God Bless you,
-TradWarrior
Anon 10.45AM
ReplyDeleteYou have got major mental problems.Go and seek some help.TradWarrior is outstanding like Introibo.Their vast knowledge and advice is excellent unlike your garbage.Prayers for you
@anon5:36
DeleteThank you, my friend! Dimondites are sick in mind and soul. They act downright demonically--like their cult masters in Most Heretical Fraudulent Monastery.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Perhaps a limerick response to our obviously-beloved-by-all-here (= rock star commentator) = Mr. Crazy Diamond of 10:45, would not be out of order. C.D. = the late Syd Barrett = PF's Mr. LSD /Acid. And FYI, "Syd" does indeed rhyme with "Acid". How about that?
ReplyDeleteWith regard to Syd of the Pinko Floyd band
Whose mindset was so hard to understand
He strummed (on) his guitar
"Shined on" (as) a " rock star"
Until he ended up in a FFFFF Fantasy-Land.
Please see the wiki article "Empty Spaces", therein
being, my not so "Hidden Message" to 10:45, about
The Fatuous @ Fillmore Feeneyite Funny Farm.
Dear TradWarrior
ReplyDeleteGreat responses to that unstable person.I pray they seek mental help.I too will pray for them.
Regarding your response to a question above about a man having a woman flaunt her new boyfriend in front of him with the dad present.The same type of thing happened to me when I was in the Novus Ordo.
I had developed feelings for a young woman and her parents knew this.I never had the chance to start anything. When I attended a special parish "Mass" she arrived with her dad and sat in the pew in front of me.She then went out and brought her new boyfriend in and both sat in front of me.Her dad sat several feet from them in the same pew and was smirking the whole time.I had the courage to be able to sit there but I was very shaken and heartbroken.The week later I left for another parish.I am still single.I m in a professional job and love my Traditional Faith.I often say to myself is there something wrong with me.I have had no luck.
A real blessing to find this website and read comments like you.
God bless you
@anon6:48am
DeleteThank you for the kind words. I am sorry that you went through that bad experience. I will keep you in my prayers.
-TradWarrior
TradWarrior and Introibo.I am sad to read that mans comment about his bad dating experience.I would just ignore a woman like that and her dad.This behaviour is increasing sad to say.
ReplyDeleteSeveral times at Church I have held the door open to young woman and never do I hear the words thank you.I think why bother.I am a kind and decent person.
I just read on a website that 63 percent of American men under 30 are single.
@anon5:54pm
DeleteI have experienced the same thing many times too. Many times you hold a door open for people and you never get a ‘thank you’. It’s like people expect it from you. It’s a “Me First” society, which is wrong. I think feminism has really destroyed chivalry in many respects.
You are correct on the number of single people in America. The number of single males is increasing as people (especially males) are afraid to get married. There are too many dangers today if you get married. Feminism, the sexual revolution, and so many other factors have made marriage very dangerous to enter into in the last several decades (especially for a man, who has a lot to lose). It’s like Introibo has said, you need to be really sure you are marrying the right person before saying “I do.”
I look around in public places that I go to such as restaurants and I am seeing more single people than ever before. Just a little while ago, I was at a restaurant. There were 5 guys that all came in together and they took a seat near me where I was sitting. Just a little while later came in 5 young ladies who took a seat about 2 tables behind the 5 guys. And they were all very attractive too! I am seeing more and more groups of single guys going out and more and more groups of single girls going out. The demographics are probably mixed – never married, divorced, etc.
It’s a sad world we live in. Today marks 67 years since Pope Pius XII died. Maybe one day, God will give us another pope. We can only hope and pray.
God Bless,
-TradWarrior
It is a sad pathetic world run by the devil. I am nearing 60 myself. Single woman. People tell me ALL THE TIME they can't believe I never married...so beautiful etc. Really...all men just wanted sex from me. Never met a real man, except for my father, who died young. Never met a real Catholic either.
DeleteWhich part of the world do you live?Had you dated many men?My experience too is most woman I have met are Sunday Catholics and the other six days of the world.God help us
DeleteI live on East coast of US. I dated many sadly from teens to 30s. Lived with someone too for many years. Oh my. Such disgrace. Last 30 years stayed celibate, trying to gain in holiness. Young men even approach me now. No one has interest in the Lord. But I do.
Delete@anon6:26
DeleteYou sound like a godly penitent, like St. Mary Magdalene. Sad state of affairs in this world. Praying for you! (And don't despair as you never know what God has in store for you).
God Bless,
---Introibo
Thank you Introibo! GOD BLESS you too!
DeleteDoes anyone know the significance,if any, of ducks? Symbolism in Christianity? Or even freemasonry? A giggle search says even BVM is symbolized as a mother duck. Doing research on something so any input appreciated...
ReplyDeleteGOD BLESS ALL HERE!
Giggle: Unicorn symbolism Blessed Virgin Mary
Delete"What is the theological significance of ducks?"
DeleteGoogle has next to nothing to say about that. The words "duck" (singular) and "ducks" (plural) are not found in the Bible. The same goes for "mushroom" (singular) and "mushrooms" (plural). But that didn't prevent Bergoglio, in 2024, from referring to sedevacantists as being "mushrooms". Whatever that means.
Ha...thanks for above comments!
Delete@anon6:46
DeleteI'm unaware of any theological significance. And I'm not trying to duck the issue.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Ha...very good!
DeleteI was surprised to find that the unicorn is a symbol for Christ, according to giggle and that there are church paintings indicating so. Interesting Anon 7 27
Deletehttps://jakomonchak.wordpress.com , has a pdf doc, dated 9-30-2011, titled "Limericks at Vatican II", including:
ReplyDeleteSaid Suenens to the Congregatio,
"I'm fed up with this disceptatio.
The bishops are churls,
Let's call in the girls,
And we'll all have a confabulatio."
Said Suenens to one Congregatio:
I'm weary of this Segregatio.
The Patres are churls,
Let's bring in the girls,
Though there's sure to be some admiratio.
Ait Suenens Vaticano in coetu,
"Hoc schemate irrigor fletu,
Haud rudes nos Patres,
Consedeant Matres,
Nec carpentium simus in metu."
There were Ratzinger, Rahner and Kung,
Whom some would like gallows hung!
-- According to periti
Of (the) various riti --
But by others their praises are sung!
On my own initiative, I changed "decently hung" to "gallows hung", as this seems to be a reference to death by hanging. Also, "admiratio" might possibly be intended to be an allusive reference to "lust of the eyes" (Matthew 5:27-28). The "girls" confabed at the Bar Nun, not the Bar-Abbas where Suenens probably hung out. BTW, this is Introibo's second "Suenens" post. His first was dated Dec. 24, 2018, and titled "Speaking with Forked Tongues". The top comment there, in 2018, was by poni a., who predicted that Suenens would be canonized. Thusfar, he has only been canonized with (lewd?, or merely ludicrous?) limericks.
Hi TradWarrior
ReplyDeleteI was pleased with your reply to my question Oct 8th 6.55AM.I think a man or woman behaving like that would be unstable and immature and having the their dad conducting himself in order to cause pain is just disgusting.I am sure there would be situations like this.I read above the same thing happened to another man.Our world is controlled by Satan.Thanks and God bless your outstanding replies to those who ask you questions.
@anon6:25am
DeleteYou’re welcome. I’m glad my responses helped you.
-TradWarrior
TradWarrior
ReplyDeleteHave you prayed certain novenas or other certain prayers to find a good Catholic wife or to know Gods will for your life or are you basically of the mindset to leave everything in the hands of God ?
@anon7:12am
DeleteI have always been very proactive with this and offered many prayers to follow God’s will. If it is one day marriage, I have certainly said many prayers at Mass, in my rosaries, novenas (including the St. Andrew novena that Introibo said), etc. I do not simply leave it to God, without doing my spiritual part. I definitely have a part to play in it and have not just sat back. With this being said, I do leave this in God’s hands in the sense that after doing all the prayers that I possibly can for this intention, the rest I have to leave to God because it will either happen or it will not. Whichever it is, I resign myself to His will as best I can and leave it there.
I hope this helped answer your question.
-TradWarrior
Getting ready to begin my evening prayers, as well as my spiritual readings for my purity and chastity battle. Please keep me in your prayers tonight.
ReplyDeleteCyrus,
DeleteYou're always in my prayers, my friend!
God Bless,
---Introibo
Ok, will keep all in prayer!.
ReplyDeleteI seem very...unsure but sure at same time. I am in a business where so many sodomites rule and I must interact. This man today was telling someone how he has been with his partner for over 30 years and married 2 years. These people have much more business than myself and are thriving where I had to sell my home and may run out of funds to take care of self. Everyone in my family dies before they run out of money...even if scammed, which we all were/are. Scary. I am healthy in my 50s and no other provider. I found sede but most sedes seem off kilter to me so I am never sure if I found Truth. All is frightening.
@anon4:59
DeleteAll is frightening, but God is in control! Unfortunately, many claiming to be Traditionalists are off kilter; we live in a time of Great Apostasy. Focus on authentic Church teaching, pray the Rosary daily (if you have access to the True Mass and sacraments--avail yourself of them) and ignore the rest. There's good and bad everywhere. Even among the original Twelve Apostles, there was Judas.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Thanks introibo! I have no Mass or sacraments and likely never will ...since my birth in 1968. I was the one who got conditionally baptized and then my priest told me I was sacrilegious for doing so! All is so...scary!
DeleteA multi-gigabyte "AI brainstorm" spat out this doggerel:
ReplyDeleteAs the priest intoned, "Introibo!"
With his altar-bound entourage row.
He said, "It's a must,
For the host of the just!"
And the acolytes responded, "Let's go!"
It is quite clever how the last two words translate "Introibo". But those steeped in British-isms or Londonese might have difficulty with this, as "row" in the non-USA sense of "noisy or violent argument", could arguably more rhyme with "cow" or "how" or "now". When it rhymes with "toe" or "tow", it jibes, and isn't that nice to know? Indeed, could one replace "entourage row" with "entourage in tow"?
As Suenens is the subject of this blog post, have any of you noticed yet that our Impostor Pope Prevosterous has some sacrament of Holy Orders Suenens-ite lineage in him? It's true. Prevost was ordained as a priest (= merely N.O. presbyter?), in 1982, by Jean Jadot = JJ, who in turn was ordained a bishop on May 1, 1968, by LEO Jozef Suenens, using the pre-Montini-revised, ordinal. In light of that, perhaps it is not surprising to see, that Leo Bergogliovost, exhibits much more "charisma" than Jorge ever did.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Oct. 2025 Google AI : "The website 'Pentecost Today USA', a publication of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, noted that Prevost, while serving as bishop in Peru, "accompanied the Catholic Charismatic Renewal". " - Whatever exactly that means. Was Bobby P. of Chicago ever "baptized in the Spirit" as part of any "charismatic Suenens-endorsed" ritual? Who knows? Bob certainly WAS thoroughly "baptized in the Spirit of Vatican II" from his boyhood on. We read in the Acta of the Council of Chalcedon (AD 451) that "Peter has spoken though Leo". Might we nowadays be listening to the Belgian V2 Leo, now and then speaking to us through a V2 Antipope Leo? In a subtitle above, Introibo describes the Belgian Leo as being "A Villain of Vatican II". His legacy continues to live on, almost 30 years after his death.
Introibo and TradWarrior
ReplyDeleteThe above comment about 63 percent of American men under 30 are single.Well I just read that 40 percent of children are born from single moms and over a quarter are then raised by the grandparents.Let that soak in.The next generation is cooked.Our world is collapsing.
@anon4:05am
DeleteI agree that the next generation is cooked and the world is collapsing very quickly. We must pray a lot.
-TradWarrior
I personally know a woman on a work visa from the Philippines who has had three children and they are all being brought up by her sister.She just had a baby and a month later goes back to her country to leave it with her sister.Poor children.How sad.
ReplyDeleteGod bless you
I thought I would share this beautiful piece by Mozart, a composer who I never particularly liked in this past, but his Veni Sancte Spiritus, blows me away each time I hear it! Here's a link to it on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwGtCWeiyOQ&list=RDrwGtCWeiyOQ&start_radio=1 May God bless all who listen to it!
ReplyDeleteHow are Catholics supposed to respond when faced with evil? Here in NYC, we are facing a takeover of our city government by a Moslem Marxist, with the support of nearly the entire City Council. Crime is out of control, with murders, gun-related violence, robberies, and gangs controlling more and more neighborhoods. Even in my "safe" neighborhood, I'm seeing evidence of the ghetto-ization and Moslemifaction taking place. There's nowhere left to go. That's why I'm preparing myself for this spiritual battle-engaging in prayer throughout the day, carrying the Cross, and standing for the truth wherever I may be. Many in my line of work are supported of the candidate about to be installed-it's dismaying and disheartening.
ReplyDeleteCyrus
DeleteThe same as in any other time of persecution. You’re doing the right thing. Leave the rest to God, as in the times of past. The fruit of Vatican II and the evils it ushered in.
God Bless,
—-Introibo
It's interesting that in tonight's Purity and Chastity Battle, the reading is from "The Spiritual Battle and a Treatise on Peace of Soul," by Scupoli, is chapter six, entitled, "Further Advice on How to Obtain a Distrust of Oneself and Confidence in God."
DeleteHere are some excerpts from the chapter:
"In order to acquire complete confidence in God, he must firmly believe that He is as perfectly capable of conquering a great number of enemies as a few, the strong and experienced as the weak and experienced.
Consequently, although a soul is overwhelmed by sins, although it has labored in vain to tear away from vice and follow virtue, although it should find its inclination to evil increasing daily instead of diminishing in favor of virtue, yet it must not fail to place confidence in God; it must not be discouraged or abandon its spiritual works. On the contrary, it must arouse itself to new fervor and redouble its efforts against the enemy."
To continue:
Delete"In this kind of battle, the victory will be won by him who has the courage not to throw down his arms or put aside his confidence in God.
His assistance is always present for those who fight His battles, though He may sometimes permit them to be wounded. Persevere to the end, Victory depends on this. There is a swift and effective remedy for the wounds anyone who fights for God's cause and who places his entire trust in Him. When he least expects it, he will see his enemy at his feet."
Remember the Battle of Lepanto!
“In this sign you will conquer.” — In hoc signo vinces (vision of Constantine)
NYC was out of control in the 70s, 80s and early 90s too, very chaotic. Murder, prostitution, graffiti everywhere, David Berkowitz running around, arson etc…..it’s very bad now too. This is what diversity, multiracialism, open borders, and religious freedom create.Disorder and chaos.
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/JNcysakX8l8?si=-Faj_iQ271AluT3B
ReplyDeleteFr Jenkins and Sanborn agree in this topic about Fatima prayer translation and modernist makeover. If these longtime priests are at odds over Thuc...then why should we completely dismiss SSPV? I can't figure any of this out and it doesn't matter for me anyway...no real priests anywhere near me. CMRI priest did disappoint on many levels, my one interaction.
May I ask which priest with CMRI disappointed you?We personally know one whom we were not impressed with but he is a secular.Prayers for you.Hold fast to the Faith.
DeleteLetourneau...what is a secular priest?
DeleteA secular priest pre-Vatican 2 was ordained to work in a given diocese. Religious priests were ordained for their respective religious congregations, like a Benedictine father or a Dominican father.
DeleteIntroibo
ReplyDeleteWatching a video today of bishop Pivarunas defending himself and CMRI after negative comments from a certain traditional bishop(bishop Sanborn)Why is this bishop against this group.It is available on the St Anthony Rad Trad youtube channel.I can't support this fighting between groups and I also don't agree with the thesis as if it is a doctrine.Just crazy
Make sure you are familiar with the whole story and have all the facts on both sides before you start commenting, this is how gossip and calumny spread.
DeleteThere are disagreements that exist among Sedevacantist groups. Some will most likely not be resolved. Namely, Una Cum, how to deal with invalid marriages, Holy Week Changes, what missals to use, conditional baptisms/abjuration of error for new converts, The Thesis, The Thuc Line etc. Bishop Sanborn holds many positions I certainly don’t hold. He isn’t obligated to recommend CMRI. Neither of these groups are the hierarchy of The Catholic Church. But one must have a full understanding of what fully transpired, regarding this rift and how it started awhile ago. They don’t agree on stuff. That’s to be expected in The End Times when The Chair of Saint Peter is empty. They shouldn’t go back and forth but they unfortunately have criticisms of each other. Some valid, others trivial, some very serious. This is just how it in this movement. But laity and clerics on both sides must work to clear up all misunderstandings and have all the facts before they start making accusations, and throwing out unsubstantiated assertions.
DeleteReally.Listen to what bishop Pivarunas says.Our family have been with CMRI for over 40 years.What are you afraid of?Please Introibo give your view on this.
DeleteBishop Sanborn is against the CMRI operating as the CMRI mainly because they refused to dissolve their religious congregation and start anew, with a new name so as to break all ties with their original founder, Francis Schukhardt.
DeleteTo be clear, the CMRI today have purged themsleves completely of any residue of Schukhardt's wierd and scandalous behavior.
Personally, I wish Bishop Sanborn would take a close look at one of his own priests who has some serious issues going.
What point are you making? Please clarify. You have been attending the CMRI masses for 40 years? Kindly, explain what that has to do with the current disagreements? I too attend a CMRI mass center for the sacraments, but see many many problems in this movement. I watched both Livestreams with Bp. Sanborn, have read Heiner’s and Bishop Pivarunas’s back and forth that occurred a few years back, and listened to the whole response of Bp. Pivarunas regarding these latest issues. I’m quite familiar with what is going on. People need The Faith to be saved but don’t necessarily need the sacraments. If an SSPX location was my only option I would stay home make spiritual communions and try to make perfect acts of contrition and pray the rosary until I had access to the sacraments. By the way, I don’t agree with Bp Sanborn on Una Cum or The Thesis and there are other issues. But he does give fine sermons and conferences on many theological topics. Stephen Heiner shouldn’t say a CMRI priest said attending schismatic groups are “fine” unless that statement is fully verified without doubts. And Bp. Pivarunas isn’t immune from criticism from other clerics as long as it is well thought out, factual, and needs to be said.
DeleteGood comments above. Yes I think people, just like Novus Ordites, don't want to face reality and change their life style. God did not promise us sacraments and He calls none of us to compromise. Someone just questioned me because I refuse to go to any vaxxed priest...for many reasons. But mainly because he is compromised. Don't we have the witness of the saints? St Hermenegild was martyred for refusing holy Communion from heterodox priests. God gives His Grace to those who earnestly seek the Truth. I haven't had any true sacraments my whole life but I escaped the Novus Ordo and now am rather isolated because I tried sharing the Truth with all that I know but discovered most don't want the Truth, no matter where it leads. This is why I know over 400 novus ordites dead from vaxx. Blessed Sunday to all!
Delete@anon 1:43
DeleteI just watched a conferences Bp. Pivarunas had many years ago explaining some of their history, with a particular focus on The Thuc Line and their dealings with Francis Schukardt. It’s an online video approximately three hours long. The CMRI beginnings are definitely a sordid mess. There can be the benefit of the doubt given in certain areas but they acted imprudently in many ways. Now, Schukardt by all accounts seems to have been a very eccentric man. He also had some health issues that became problematic. Didn’t the CMRI, especially Fr. Denis Chicoine, know this beforehand? Didn’t his inner circle know he was claiming to be “The Pope”? That didn’t just happen one day. They have accused Schukardt of drug use and sins against the 6th and 9th commandments with seminarians. Was he ever arrested for these crimes? They just said he left. Was there a concerted effort and a power play to get him out of there since he was never around and dealing with health issues? We will never know the full story. Did he do those aforementioned immoral things, could be very likely. But I would need to look much more into it. Schukardt and his followers tell a different story. I like to give the CMRI the benefit of the doubt since many corroborated these accounts. It’s could very well all be true. There still seems to be quite a bit unanswered questions about went went on up there.
To My Readers:
DeleteThis development is both sad and unnecessary. “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity,' seems to have been forgotten.
My take on this matter, in general:
1. The CMRI under Bp. Pivarunas ia a good Traditionalist apostolate.
2. There is no problem in disagreeing in matters where there is no Magisterial authority to settle the dispute. For example: Una Cum, Pian Holy Week, etc. I have definite opinions, based on Church teaching, for these issues--as do others. I am OK with Una Cum. If someone is not, they should follow their conscience and not go. The problem I have is with those who try to enforce as "dogma" things that cannot be decided in the absence of a pope.
3. As an example, I use the late Fr. Cekada (RIP). He did MUCH good for the Traditionalist Movement. Unfortunately, he became one of those "follow me or die" clerics that he once (rightly) denounced. He went so far as to declare that a Traditionalist, in danger of death, could receive the Last Rites from a validly ordained SSPX priest, but could NOT receive Holy Viaticum from him because it was consecrated at an "Una Cum" Mass. As if the Sacred Host was "tainted"! NO ONE WITHOUT MAGISTERIAL AUTHORITY can pronounce on such issues. Imagine if some dying Traditionalist didn't avail themselves of the graces from Holy Viaticum because of a priest's hubris! To say, "I don't think the Host should be received" is one thing (and both foolish and contrary to Church practice) yet to make it a "sin" is another thing altogether. Fr. Martin Stepanich (an approved pre-V2 theologian) gently rebuked Fr. Cekada (notice how real theologians behave), yet Fr. Cekada dismissed him.
3. Now we have Bp. Sanborn trying to impose The Thesis as dogma in similar fashion. Could sedeprivationism be true? Yes, I'm open to it. To enforce it without Magisterial authority is just plain wrong.
4. I have sadly noticed a tendency among those clerics who hold to sedeprivationism to behave in ways reminiscent of Dimondites. I was on X some time ago and had an exchange with Fr. Desposito who holds to The Thesis. I told him (charitably of course) that I was a "garden variety" sedevacantist. He blocked me and excoriated me for not allowing him to "teach me" (!) Teach me? By whose authority? They (correctly) say they have no Magisterial authority and then proceed to "teach" as if they did.
5. Let me be clear that NO Traditionalist Society/apostolate has the authority to "grant annulments" unless it is a clear and indisputable case (e.g., a man under age 16 attempted marriage with a 15 yr old girl in Kansas where such is legal. He lied about his age for a Church wedding. A male under 16 cannot validly contract marriage, so it wouldn't be valid. This is not really "an annulment" but recognizing the obvious status).
I will not tell anyone not to attend Mass with Bp. Sanborn and his priests. No need to add to an already bad situation. However, I think he is clearly in the wrong, and should do all he can to mend relations with the CMRI.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Thanks Introibo. This helps amd makes sense! So much doesn't make sense and I think things are supposed to make sense! That is how I escaped NO and then RR.
DeleteOn point three. The thesis is absolutely absurd and has been taken apart by a few in the traditionalist movement who hold the true Sedevacantist position that a manifest heretic cannot be The Pope, and a Pope who becomes a manifest heretic is Ipso facto deposed by God, no declaration needed. This is taught by The Church, namely Pope Leo XIII. I don’t believe Bishop Sanborn is “dogmatic” on the thesis. That would be incorrect. He said all RCI members must hold to it to avoid factions within the Institute. Laity are not commanded or bound to hold the thesis unless that has changed and I’m not aware of that development. Fr. Desposito is a staunch supporter of the thesis and he has spoken very critically of the true Sedevacantist position which The CMRI holds.
DeleteIntroibo, as always, your posts are much appreciated and offer enlightenment and guidance in these dark days of eclipse of our beloved one, true faith. As for the Thesis, I do not believe Bishop Sanborn has enforced it as dogmatic. He himself says he prefers that his seminarians are in agreement as a matter of unity at his seminary, but he’s not dismissive of seminaries that don’t hold to it.
DeleteAs for this recent incident being discussed about the streaming Q&A with Bishop Sanborn hosted by Stephen Heiner, based upon what’s reported, it was strictly about Una Cum and not any of the other issues/disagreements which are now reignited the more this recent incident gets discussed. I listened to much of the RCI Q&A but unfortunately missed this segment of the program.
As I understand it—without yet tracking down the verbatim exchange— the questioner asked for guidance on attending SSPX for convenience sake, and the answer was it’s not recommended due to Una Cum. As you know, host Stephen Heiner reads the questions and often recaps the answers.
To muddy the water, there was also an X/Twitter incident dragged into this, about CMRI, Father Casimir in particular being discussed in that interaction about the RCI and CMRI disputes. This is where much of the confusion stems I do believe, as many are jumping in to defend Father Casimir over what’s rumored to have been said.
This came to my attention yesterday when I saw that Kevin at Catholic Family Podcast announced that he had something to say. I tuned in a little late to find Kevin emotionally venting about Stephen Heiner (and Bishop Sanborn indirectly) but he wouldn’t provide specifics so I clicked off. Perhaps my expectations are unrealistic, but isn’t it prudent to wait until emotions simmer down and facts of THIS particular incident are clarified? And the parties have all spoken to each other privately?
Later I tuned into the CMRI Fatima conference to catch a presentation, and there’s Bishop Pivarunas, clearly angry and speaking disparagingly about Stephen Heiner to a captive Fatima Conference audience, again offering a lot of veiled language about specifics of Stephen Heiner’s crimes. Look, I know these longstanding differences of opinion can fester and spill out into the public domain, and many here have a strong dislike for, and disagreement with Bishop Sanborn over the Thesis in particular.
I attend CMRI Masses via streaming and I believe there are many holy priests in that order. I also respect Bishop Sanborn although I have not formed an opinion yet on the Thesis, and I consider myself sedevacantist.
Feelings run high but Bishop Pivarunas, in my OWN opinion, fanned the flames, opting to air his feelings to an audience of clergy, religious and laity attending the Fatima Conference, an annual spiritual and inspirational event. Personally, I always regret conversations where I complain to Party A about absent Party B, wishing I’d observed silence and/or a cooling off period. Clergy and hierarchy in particular need to comport themselves to a higher standard despite the stressful state in which we find ourselves.
Alanna
Yes, I agree Bishop Pivarunas escalated and many people commenting on this don’t even know all the specifics regarding what was said on the RCI livestream. I do not attend RCI, there are too many positions they hold that are not tenable. I do go to a CMRI Mass center for the sacraments, I have met Bishop Pivarunas a few years back and had a lengthy discussion with him. He is a nice man, but like any human being he has his faults. People seem to measure success on growth and the number of mass centers around the country. Places to receive the valid sacraments and go to mass can help save souls, but The Catholic Faith is what will get you to Heaven, the Latin Mass isn’t a requirement. Priests need to be well formed, the laity need to be well catechized too. There are examples where this isn’t always the case. Anecdotal perhaps, but it’s observable. Kevin Davis just starts pontificating about his personal dislike of Heiner which was uncalled for as well. A few of his family members (Fr. Philip) and a couple of Sisters are members of The CMRI. The laity on video sharing cites need to be quiet. There are too many false teachers, grifters, arm chair theologians, and over opinionated big mouths out there who just churn out content without actually thinking about what they say. People can make content but quality over quantity. None of these groups should have a cult like following. They don’t want that either but when they make up rules and “dogmas” that are absurd, this becomes a problem. When Bishops say we are the biggest group and therefore criticism of our group is irresponsible, that is also nonsense. Just respond to what is false, and don’t go into a diatribe which brings about their own accusations and personal vendettas into the mix. This is why I just go to the CMRI for confession and Sunday Mass, and don’t get more involved than that. The differences are not going to reconciled in my opinion and there will never be a True Pope again. This is the Great Apostasy. Prepare your souls.
DeleteAnon @9:35 a.m. Thank you for summarizing far better than I did, above, an objective overview of whatever in fact triggered Kevin Davis and Bishop Pivarunas into unseemly, impulsive emotional outbursts. The laity, especially those jumping in to inflame with uninformed remarks, should practice custody of the tongue until the actual details of the Q&A and social media accusations are clarified.
DeleteBishop Sanborn gets a lot of criticism yet I find Bishop Pivarunas’s remarks and escalation in need of a public apology to Stephen Heiner whose reputation has been shredded without any adequate explanation.
I wasn’t aware of Kevin’s family connections to the CMRI. His emotional outburst is even worse since he’s incapable or unwilling to speak objectively. I listen infrequently to his podcast but had noticed this bias and reliance on emotion.
Not being near a traditional Mass center, I participate by livestream, usually at CMRI Masses but St. Gertrude’s as well.
Alanna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrocinium
ReplyDeletehttps://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A403rcRah-Ratz.html
The second webpage listed has a title of "Theology & beer", is dated 6 Feb. 2011, and has a "Rhine flows into the Tiber" Oktoberfest look to it. A brief textual excerpt reads: "While [Karl] Rahner -- faithfully imitated by Biali -- prefers dark beer and cigarettes to develop his ideas, Ratzinger is an aficionado of white beer." - In the blog post above, Introibo refers to both Rahner and Ratzinger as being "arch-heretics". They are both referenced in a limerick reproduced above too. The TIA photo of "cigs & beer Rah & Rat" might have been taken in/at the Bar-Abbas (?!), or somewhere else close by. The precise meaning of "Bar-Jonah", "Bar-Abbas" and "Bar Nun" was explained in a Oct. 5 at 5:35 comment made to the previous Sept. 29 "Twelve Steps... = AA = Alcoholics Anonymous" post. Quite curious it is that we find the phrase "Nuns and Nones" in the subsection "Suenens: Destroyer of Vocations" of the blog post above. It confirms what I thought, that "Bar Nun" = "bar none". In other words, "the women of V2" felt excluded from the other two bars, and so arranged to have another bar set up to serve them liquor (or coffee or whatever). This situation of "segregatio" arguably is also alluded to in the several Suenens limericks reproduced above. Connect the dots.
Three times in the above post, Introibo calls V2 a "Robber Council". A half dozen times before that, he used the same terminology / label, in blog posts dated from 2019 to 2023. In my mind at least, this can risk confusion with the "Robber Council I" = Latrocinium Ephesinum of AD 449. And so I would recommend that we refer to V2 as either "The Montinian Latrocinium" or "The 1960s Impostor Council" or "The Robber Council II'. Barabbas was a robber. The V2 bars were named what they were, for certain reasons. The devil is in the details.
Adding to what I wrote above about the disagreements between The RCI and CMRI. One area that has become contentious is The Sunday obligation. A person asked if they had to attend mass on Sunday during these times, and used CMRI as example, since it was an option. Bp Sanborn cited Canon Law, and said strictly speaking that there is no Sunday obligation because traditionalist groups don’t have jurisdiction and they are not apart of a diocese. He said they all offer private masses, but he said that it would be lazy, impious, not to go and that might be sinful. This doesn’t mean he singled out The CMRI, but he did say he wouldn’t recommend the CMRI based on their Una cum stance. The problem is that someone said The CMRI said people can go to “Orthodox” Schismatic groups. I’ve never heard The CMRI say this. I also think Sanborn is wrong on the Una Cum issue, but I would never ever recommend going to mass at the SSPX.
ReplyDeleteThe marriage “tribunal” situation hasn’t be clearly answered by The CMRI either, and they don’t have the jurisdiction to say people aren’t married and then preside over the sacrament of matrimony for people who still might be married, who they believe aren’t married. This is a major problem that hasn’t been dealt with at all. Can they say with certainty that a marriage is invalid and then allow one of those people to enter into a marriage with another person after the CMRI priests say people are invalidly married based on guidelines always used by the Church? They don’t have that power. Maybe they can say most likely a marriage is invalid based on some evidence but they can’t go much forward than that without jurisdiction.
ReplyDeleteI know a Protestant convert who came to The CMRI and was either separated from his wife or they got a legal “divorce”, not sure about that part, he told me he was waiting on a decision from The CMRI about the validity of his marriage. It came back, according to the CMRI as invalid, no witnesses that we know of etc, just a moral judgement, and then this man got married at the CMRI. Is this legitimate or an abuse of power? They only have supplied jurisdiction and definitely can’t do anything with Novus Ordo marriages..
ReplyDelete@anon4:47
DeleteAssuming this happened as you stated, it would be invalid. However, there are other factors of which you may not be aware and your acquaintance did not reveal. For example, had his wife had a previous marriage, and her husband was alive during the time she attempted her second marriage, it would be null and void--no witnesses necessary. This is but one example.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Not sure of all the details, it’s just a bit troublesome to have CMRI priests looking over these cases. I need to know more about how they handle Novus Ordo, and other marriages before I can speak more on it. But that’s just it, they should be more open about it. Not the particular cases but their process.
DeleteHere are 6 bits of Q & A fun with Google "AI" :
ReplyDeleteQ1) Was there a Paul VI impostor?
Q2) Is Vatican II a latrocinium?
Q3) Who is Leo Bergogliovost?
Q4) Can impostor popes produce impostor councils?
Q5) Can impostor councils produce impostor popes?
Q6) Who is Nikita Roncalli?
*******
A1) {AI generates a lengthy "P6 conspiracy theory" rant.}
A2) "No, calling Vatican II a "latrocinium" is not the mainstream view... A small group of... traditionalist Catholics believes that the council introduced heretical changes and constitutes a break with tradition, which is why they refer to it as a "latrocinium"."
Q3) "The name appears to be a conflation of... Bergoglio and... Prevost... The name "Leo Bergogliovost" has also appeared in satirical or conspiratorial articles, where the name is sometimes used to identify a mascot or reference fictional events."
A4) "According to Catholic theology and canon law, an anti-pope cannot produce a valid or legitimate ecumenical council."
A5) "Yes... [it] occurred during the Great Western Schism."
A6) {Google AI apparently has no idea who he is, and so gives no answer, but the top result of non-AI Google is a "Free Traditional Catholic Books" response.}
[to be continued shortly, with another comment]
To continue the above 5:43PM post :
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Siri_conspiracy_theory , notes in paragraph 2, that: "Adherents of this theory say that the election of John XXIII was invalid and regard him and his successors [up to and including Prevost] as [being] imposters and antipopes." - To further evaluate that, one can consult Introibo's blog posts "One Question Siri Can't Answer" (Feb. 9, 2015), and "The Case Against Roncalli [being anything other than an Antipope]" (May 20, 2019). Another Introibo post of note is "True or False Saints" (Aug. 31, 2015), which deals with Angelo Roncalli, among others, as being fake Novus Ordo "saints", noting, inter alia, that:
"Sometimes I must wonder if certain things are more than a coincidence, but rather a [hint of a sacrament-like?] sign [or "synchronicity" or "God wink"] from God. Here are the coincidences between the first Antipope John XXIII [= Baldassare (Cossa)] and the second [Antipope John XXIII = Nikita] (Roncalli) -- [1] Both had reigns of 5 years (1410-1415) and (1958-1963). [2] Both called a Council; Constance and Vatican II. [3] Both opened the Council in the forth year of their reign (1414 and 1962). [4] Both died before the third session of the Council."
The wiki articles "Synchronicity" and "Lincoln-Kennedy coincidences urban legend" can help us put such links into better perspective. The A5 response to Q4 & Q5 above, starts with the word "yes", and then goes on to twice mention "John XXIII". Coincidence? People have long speculated that "John", a papal name not used for over 6 centuries, was chosen by Roncalli to inaugurate an antipope lineage. The final coincidence has to do with the Oct. 11 at 11:11 comment above, which was a comment about Roncalli's Robber Council II. It was Bergoglio who canonized Roncalli to be "Pope Saint John XXIII", and then chose as his feast day, Oct. 11.
After watching the video by Bishop Pivarunas, I have gained even more respect for him. And I already had a tremendous amount of respect for him. A lot of these issues should be brought to the table between traditional bishops and priests. Bishop Pivarunas wants traditional clergy to come together and have discussions. He knows certain opinions will remain within the traditionalist camps and not everyone will agree, but he is at least willing to sit down and talk. I would act the EXACT same way if I was a clergyman, as I have mentioned on here many times. Bishop Sanborn is very clearly unwilling to come to the table and talk to Bishop Pivarunas. If he was, it would have already happened, just like the SSPV clergy would have already reached out to Mario Derksen over the Thuc issue and they would have immediately tried to defend their side of the situation in writing (which they never did). The CMRI is growing more and more and the RCI remains very small in comparison. I always said if I was in Bishop Sanborn’s shoes I would sit down with Bishop Pivarunas and see how my RCI group could be absorbed into the CMRI group and it would strengthen the traditionalist unity to a large extent. I would admit to myself that the CMRI are obviously doing a lot of things right because their group is growing very nicely and I should want to be a part of that to grow the kingdom of God here on Earth. Likewise, if I was in the SSPV, I would also want to drop the anti-Thuc issue and would humbly admit that Mario and the CMRI have demonstrated very good points on why the Thuc line is valid and how I should respect the CMRI on this. Even if I did not want to agree with this, in charity, I would not have my priests police the communion rail and deny people Holy Communion over this issue. It is not that hard for traditionalists from the different camps to get together and have civil conversations with each other. It is pride and ego that gets in their way. I commend Bishop Pivarunas and hope that this bears much fruit in the future. Realistically, I think that certain bishops and priests are just too stubborn to join him in discussion. Hopefully in time, they join him and try and work through these very difficult matters. Everyone is suffering from this Great Apostasy. The pride, egos, and stubbornness of some traditional clergy are only making this situation that much worse on everyone, when this is the time when some form of unity is needed now more than ever. We have no pope to unite us completely. We may never have one again. At the very least, we should have some united effort to join forces because things are only getting worse in the world and spiritual help is greatly needed.
ReplyDelete-TradWarrior
On p. 90 of the book "The Return of the Gods", by Jonathan Cahn (FrontLine, Florida, hardcover of 2022), we read:
ReplyDelete"For the ancient Mesopotamian, the taverns were inhabited by the spirit of Ishtar. It was there that those affected by her allurements were surrounded by three elements: sexuality, intoxicating substances, and music. When the spirit of Ishtar manifested in American culture in the 1960s, two of the three elements also manifested, sexuality and intoxicating substances. The third component would converge as well -- music. Each of the three would epitomize the decade that began the transformation of American culture. In 1969 a LIFE magazine article identified the three elements as the [USA] counterculture's new sacraments -- sex, drugs, and rock [and roll]."
The author of these words, the prolific book author Jonathan Cahn, is a USA Evangelical Protestant minister who refers to himself as a Messianic Rabbi. So he is a sort of pope of his own hybrid religion. Not Catholic. That makes his use of the word "sacraments" all the more remarkable. He alludes to the 1960s several times as quoted, and still sees no connection of that decade to "the sacraments in light of the Robber Council II". The so-called "Spirit of Vatican II", promoted by Leo Suenens (= the subject of this blog post) is, among other things, the "Spirit of Ishtar", as Cahn notes.
Sex? Comments above are devoted to that subject. Drugs? Both cigs and alcohol are noted in the Oct. 11 at 11:11 comment above. And R & R? Mention is made of Pink Floyd music above (Oct. 8 at 9:55), not Gregorian chant. So the V2-era "sacramental hat trick" is now complete. As for the use of the word "taverns" in the first sentence quoted, doesn't that mean the same thing as "bars"? The "Bar-Jonah", "Bar-Abbas" and "Bar Nun" were explained above (Oct. 11 at 11:11). Ishtar is a harlot, a biblically significant whore (Judges 16:1).