tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post7612415633390208219..comments2024-03-28T23:07:29.586-07:00Comments on Introibo Ad Altare Dei: Sophistry On SteroidsIntroibo Ad Altare Deihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-66762967156144901202021-06-27T16:13:58.376-07:002021-06-27T16:13:58.376-07:00@anon2:02
I have been unable to authenticate it. M...@anon2:02<br />I have been unable to authenticate it. Most of what Joe says is either twisted out of context or just plain made up.<br /><br />---IntroiboIntroibo Ad Altare Deihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-49146647706040183732021-06-27T02:02:07.497-07:002021-06-27T02:02:07.497-07:00Hello. Is the quote of St. Thomas even authentic? ...Hello. Is the quote of St. Thomas even authentic? I can't find it anywhere except here, in Joe's website, and in Bp. Vezelis' website, also attacking Lefebvre's orders. <br />Is it just a made-up quote?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-88345668986333513592020-05-24T22:06:26.600-07:002020-05-24T22:06:26.600-07:00Frank,
See my post of May 25, 2020
—-Introibo Frank,<br />See my post of May 25, 2020<br /><br />—-Introibo Introibo Ad Altare Deihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-19088971247032963742020-05-20T14:32:26.296-07:002020-05-20T14:32:26.296-07:00Dear sir.
can you refute this related article whic...Dear sir.<br />can you refute this related article which conclusively proves the case of dubious validity of traditionalist sacraments. link to article is below:<br /><br />https://www.betrayedcatholics.com/articles/a-catholics-course-of-study/traditionalist-heresies-and-errors/true-status-of-schismatic-priests-and-bishops-ignored/a-comparison-of-anglican-and-traditionalist-orders/<br /><br />Thanks for any rebuttal you may make.<br />FrankFrancishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11731345389611701460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-41390762607397373152016-09-23T07:20:21.387-07:002016-09-23T07:20:21.387-07:00All well said and thank you for the source publish...All well said and thank you for the source published in 2003. Forgive my earlier outburst as I was rushed and a little humiliation (my own) is good for the soul.<br /><br />"Can be" invalidating and "is" invalidating are not the same thing. A chainsaw can be used as a can-opener, but it is not a can-opener.<br /><br />Yes... the Old Catholics have gone off the deep end even in Utreckt with their female clergy and "unity through diversity" garbage. They are of the same disgusting breed as Novus dis-Ordo... but "Old Catholics" are not the same schismatic sect as the Jansenist "Old Roman Catholics".<br /><br />Just as there are many schismatic "Orthodox" churches, there are many "Old Catholic" churches. <br /> <br />Schuckardt derived his orders from convert from the "Old Roman Catholics" a different schismatic sect who retained the use of the Latin rite when the "Old Catholics" of Utrect became modernist hippies. This is why Utrect no longer recognizes them. Source: "Historical & Doctrinal Sketch of the Old Roman Catholic Church Revised edition" (Bp. Carmel Henry Carfora)<br /><br />Note: The Orthodox don't recognize the validity of bishops ordained without a flock, but who cares, Catholics do. So the fact of a schismatic who does or does not recognize the orders of another schismatic has no bearing to their own validity. <br /><br />Are we to doubt the Orthodox's validity now? Not very Catholic.<br /><br />Yes.. I have a lot of doubts about Lefebvre who operated in open schism, but held union with the apostates in Rome, not to mention a suspected Freemason, ordained by a suspected Freemason, also neo-Gallican teachings on the papacy & real estate land scandal across the country in what looks like a polished snatch and grab organization designed to absorb Latin Mass Centers. <br /><br />The Jansenists (Old Roman Catholics) had the courtesy of being consistent and have no suspected ties to Freemasonry to my knowledge. <br /><br />Schuckardt was publicly shouting "SEDEVACANT" & "APOSTASY" from the rooftops while Lefebvre and Thuc were still holding hands with the Novus dis-Ordo singing koom bai yah. <br /><br />Hows that for gratitude. The one Bishop who stands up like a man and draws a line in the sand like a Catholic ends up shunned, swept under the rug, ridiculed. Figures.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-42567446602343582192016-09-21T17:53:02.214-07:002016-09-21T17:53:02.214-07:001. Sacrilege can be invalidating. For example, to ...1. Sacrilege can be invalidating. For example, to add the words "which will be given up for you" after "This is My Body" would be sacrilegious, but not invalidating, as the meaning has not been substantially altered. To insert the words "is a symbol of"--so as to render the form, "This is a symbol of My Body" WOULD be BOTH sacrilegious and invalidating. <br /> <br />2. I don't need a sophism to counter a quote from my detractor which is not a pronouncement of the Holy See, and which he needed to retract after calling me incompetent (also retracted) <br /><br />3. Ott says what is true and no Traditionalist contests it. However, please pay attention to the words, '...follows the essential external rite..." Tamper with the rite, you tamper with validity. <br /><br />4. "Fr" Cekada? You doubt HIS orders from a Catholic Archbishop, but not from heretics who jettisoned the faith and tamper with the Traditional rites?<br /><br />5. According to Andre Queen in "Old Catholic: History, Ministry, Faith and Mission" (a well-sourced book from 2003, Old Catholics use various rites: some use the Vatican II rites, others the older rites. As early as 1931, Old Catholics accepted Anglicans as valid, and (outside of the three countries of Holland, Germany and Switzerland BEFORE V2) would ordain and consecrate each others clergy. Since 1996, most all ordain women.<br /><br />The problem with Anglicans should be manifest; they have no valid orders (Apostolicae Curae of 1896, Pope Leo XIII). The Duarte-Costa line has the same problem. Originating with the pre-V2 excommunicated Bishop Carols Duarte-Costa, sects have sprung up claiming valid orders. One such is the "Charismatic Episcopal Church" founded circa 1997. "Bishop" Craig Bates, makes one mistake most overlook. Bates and the other founders of this sect were Anglican "priests" who left the Anglican Church (Episcopal Church in U.S.)over the issue of abortion and women "priestesses" THEY WERE NEVER RE-ORDAINED AS VALID PRIESTS BY THE DUARTE-COSTA BISHOPS WHO RECOGNIZER ANGLICAN ORDERS. Since it's dubious that a layman can be made a bishop without being first a priest, the whole line is dubious. What of Old Catholics who received priestly "ordination" from Anglicans and then were consecrated? <br /><br />Changed rites, acceptance of Anglicans, and now more antics make Old Catholic orders outside Germany, Switzerland and Holland dubious pre-V2, now they are probably ALL dubious. Remember also, the practice of the Church confirms what Regatillo and Beste taught.<br /><br />---Introibo<br />Introibo Ad Altare Deihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-29289751597506055962016-09-21T13:58:34.243-07:002016-09-21T13:58:34.243-07:00I retract my "incompetence" remark. I q...I retract my "incompetence" remark. I quoted a source BEFORE reading the full source myself. Esti is a crap quote as it's a side-note reference. Apologies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-21019845876314630172016-09-21T10:43:25.320-07:002016-09-21T10:43:25.320-07:00Wouldn't being a member of the Communist party...Wouldn't being a member of the Communist party or Masonic lodges be a "manifestation" of intention? What about the times of the Spanish Inquisition? Did they consider the secret Jews who were pretending to be priests/bishops to have valid sacraments? I don't think so but I don't have a source. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-74220451425131154062016-09-21T10:39:51.931-07:002016-09-21T10:39:51.931-07:00Sacrilege and heresy do not invalidate orders. Yo...Sacrilege and heresy do not invalidate orders. You're using emotionally charged arguments to uphold your opinion counsellor. <br /><br />Esti Multi also says... "Ordinations conferred by dissident Oriental bishops, Jansenists and Old Catholics are generally valid, because of a validly consecrated hierarchy." <br /><br />So apparently the holy see HAS spoken. But I'm sure you have some sophism to counter it with.<br /><br />Also... Ott said “Every validly consecrated bishop, including heretical, schismatic, simonistic or excommunicated bishops, can validly dispense the Sacrament of Order, provided that he has the requisite intention, and follows the essential external rite..."<br /><br />Hmmm... are you just lazy or incompetent? Better get "Fr." Cekada on the line to help you with this one. You're using all his arguments. <br /><br />Also... what is your source.. not the lazy source i.e. a book... where is it shown that the "Old Roman Catholic Church" does not use the proper Latin rite? Or are you just making stuff up to suit your case?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-29099868653365322872016-09-20T19:42:07.505-07:002016-09-20T19:42:07.505-07:00To further my reply, if you claim ALL Old Catholic...To further my reply, if you claim ALL Old Catholic Orders are VALID, you're wrong again. Esti Multi makes no declaration on the validity of Old Catholic Orders. "Sacrileges in ... Administration of sacraments..." Can be invalidating or not. Citing to Catholic dictionaries which give short, sweeping generalizations are not on par with the dissertations of Regatillo and Beste. It's analogous to citing "Black's Law Dictionary" to solve a legal dispute compared to US Federal Court decisions.<br /><br />---IntroiboIntroibo Ad Altare Deihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-57885666929622832352016-09-20T15:16:48.967-07:002016-09-20T15:16:48.967-07:00Really?
Esti Multi #21 reads:"21. Nor is thi...Really? <br />Esti Multi #21 reads:"21. Nor is this the limit of the injuries which are committed against the Catholic Church. In addition the Prussian and other governments of the German Empire openly support those recent heretics who call themselves Old Catholics. Their abuse of such a name would be plainly ridiculous if it were not for the fact that so many monstrous errors of this sect against the principal teachings of the Catholic faith, so many sacrileges in divine service and the administration of the sacraments, so many grave scandals, and so much ruin of souls redeemed by the blood of Christ did not force tears from Our eyes."<br /><br />Where does it say the Orders are invalid? Ott also makes no such assertion. Having shown these two citations false, I won't even bother with the other "research"<br /><br />---IntroiboIntroibo Ad Altare Deihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-47897780585866609222016-09-20T14:38:49.486-07:002016-09-20T14:38:49.486-07:00How about these?
Roman Catholic Dictionary, by Add...How about these?<br />Roman Catholic Dictionary, by Addison Arnold<br />A Catholic Dictionary, by Donald Attwater,<br />1958<br />Pius IX, Ency. Etsi multa, 21 November 1873<br />Synopsis Theologiae Dogmaticae, Tanquerey, Vol.II, 1905, p. 618<br />And Dr. Ludwig Ott, 1952<br /><br />These would all disagree with your "assertion".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-13194006479490857472016-09-09T16:41:58.875-07:002016-09-09T16:41:58.875-07:00Mike writes: ...I don't know why God would per...Mike writes: ...I don't know why God would permit this...<br />Dear Mike, <br />If interested, this subject is addressed in a sermon by Bishop Sanborn called the "Operation of Error” at this link. <br />http://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/Error,%20Operation%20of%20-%20Bp%20Sanborn.mp3<br />or at Most Holy Trinity Seminary home page click on ‘Sermons’, by Topic click on “Catholic Church/Modernism and click on ‘Error, Operation of”. It is 21:20 minutes. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11792743513997887548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-90154585800180881272016-09-03T13:55:13.575-07:002016-09-03T13:55:13.575-07:00The person who commented above sent a link of enor...The person who commented above sent a link of enormous value. Anyone in interested in the validity of Thuc bishops is advised to go there. I actually know the owner of the site, but forgot it was still online! One less thing to do, except perhaps condense it for a refutation of Joe's position!<br /><br />Many thanks,<br />---Introibo Introibo Ad Altare Deihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-46710243135662864782016-09-03T12:45:57.317-07:002016-09-03T12:45:57.317-07:00www.Thuc bishops.comwww.Thuc bishops.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-15583674977270612712016-09-02T17:13:55.335-07:002016-09-02T17:13:55.335-07:00Thank you, Joann. It's sad that in this time o...Thank you, Joann. It's sad that in this time of sedevacante such things can and will happen. There is no supreme pontiff to whom we can appeal, so we have to make our Catholic way the best we can by learning and keeping the teachings of the Church, and try to avoid the errors of individuals such as Joe.<br /><br />I don't know exactly when I'll have the post out on the Thuc bishops. It will need to be lengthy like this post, and with a law career and family, it's very hard to find the time.<br /><br />God bless!<br /><br />---Introibo Introibo Ad Altare Deihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-57610761330162112742016-09-02T09:30:03.123-07:002016-09-02T09:30:03.123-07:00I only found my way back to the True Roman Catholi...I only found my way back to the True Roman Catholic Church of my childhood a couple of years ago. It never ceases to amaze me that persons such as Joe make issues so complex. Common sense tells me that no one can know anybody's intentions unless they are made manifested. Looking forward to the article on the Thuc Bishops as I understand there are conflicting views on this subject which I know very little about and need to understand. As always thank you for your work!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-81532786750439499142016-09-01T05:13:01.500-07:002016-09-01T05:13:01.500-07:00Yes! The intent NOT to receive a sacrament on the...Yes! The intent NOT to receive a sacrament on the part of the recipient (an "obex" or obstacle) is never to be presumed unless manifested. See my citation above to DeSalvo concerning Matrimony.<br />God Bless. my friend!<br /><br />---Introibo Introibo Ad Altare Deihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-69188618850750177182016-09-01T05:07:35.970-07:002016-09-01T05:07:35.970-07:00Introibo I thank you for this great work. Some of ...Introibo I thank you for this great work. Some of friends on Facebook insist on the fact that Leinart was not even a Bishop since he couldn't have obtained the Bishopric since he was already a Mason before is consecration. Should I present the same argument of secrete intentions here? That is since there is no positive assertion that he did not want to obtain it therefore he obtained it?Lord Belishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17785608962822151003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-69476478447294981372016-08-30T13:36:11.028-07:002016-08-30T13:36:11.028-07:00I am not aware of any theologians or canonists tha...I am not aware of any theologians or canonists that hold an opinion contrary to Regatillo and Beste. These are men whose works have been declared free from error by the Magisterium. In addition, the practice of the Church (conditional ordination only on Old Catholic sect clergy outside Germany, Holland and Switzerland) is confirmation of Church teaching in practice. I am unaware of any pronouncement from the Holy Office.<br /><br />It seems as though you're fishing for a different result. You ask me about Old Catholic orders from "curiosity." I respond and you think I'm being hypocritical and using private judgement. I respond with the teaching of Regatillo. You want to know if there are others. I give you citation to Beste and the practice of the Church which confirms that teaching. I also demonstrate why training is not lacking in Traditionalist seminaries as you seem to think. Now, you want decrees of the Holy See. I think what I gave amply proves the truth of my assertion that Joe's orders are dubious.<br /><br />---Introibo Introibo Ad Altare Deihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-32966201009000773372016-08-30T05:32:30.176-07:002016-08-30T05:32:30.176-07:00Thanks for the information. So just two men have e...Thanks for the information. So just two men have expressed an opinion on the Old Catholic orders? Any official statements from the Holy See? I wonder how many other theologians may have held contrary opinions? Do you happen to know? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-18157647428892658982016-08-29T16:28:54.205-07:002016-08-29T16:28:54.205-07:00I guess a lot of people would simply answer that G...I guess a lot of people would simply answer that God *would not* and *could not* permit this, and therefore there is no crisis; or if there is a crisis, then the cause must be something extrinsic to the Church. Perhaps the Beatles and television or something...Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08247094702054398126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-65972466372819117962016-08-29T16:09:29.494-07:002016-08-29T16:09:29.494-07:00Amen, Mike!
---IntroiboAmen, Mike!<br /><br />---IntroiboIntroibo Ad Altare Deihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-31000268438224034862016-08-29T16:04:22.398-07:002016-08-29T16:04:22.398-07:00I am most of the way through Fr Cekada's Work ...I am most of the way through Fr Cekada's Work of Human Hands.<br /><br />I came to the understanding while reading it that the people responsible for the changes are my worst imaginable enemies. I can think of no one more evil.<br /><br />People such as ISIS and home invaders who would do mortal harm to me and my family are nothing in comparison to these diabolical monsters who want me in hell, and have used the New Mass and Sacraments in order to deceive me, and all Catholic faithful.<br /><br />Going beyond merely resisting them and their evil creations, one must violently oppose them with more force than if fighting to preserve the natural life of the body.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08247094702054398126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6466183320330735196.post-88148652442764115332016-08-29T15:57:12.964-07:002016-08-29T15:57:12.964-07:00Dear Dr. Lamb,
Yes! I've read the works of bo...Dear Dr. Lamb,<br /> Yes! I've read the works of both Fr. Cekada and Dr. Coomaraswamy on "Masonic bishops" and I cite many of the same theologians. Thank you for the citation to the work of Fr. Cekada. Also see "cracks in the Masonry" by Dr. Coomaraswamy at the same site. God bless!<br /><br />---IntroiboIntroibo Ad Altare Deihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11377479441601352059noreply@blogger.com