- The existence and attributes of God
- The truth of the One True Church established by Christ for the salvation of all
- The truth of a particular dogma or doctrine of the Church
- The truth of Catholic moral teaching
- The truth of the sedevacantist position as the only Catholic solution to what has happened since Vatican II
[Benns] Here Introibo points to canonists who restrict such interpretation to those who have studied it in the “seminary.”
No. I don't know why Benns puts the word seminary in quotation marks; does she doubt true seminaries existed before Vatican II? The canonists (every one I referenced) agree that "anyone" does not mean every Tom, Dick, and Harry who has a copy of the 1917 Code of Canon Law is able to interpret it. Nor does "anyone" mean any priest who "studied it (Canon Law) in the seminary." The Magisterium gives authoritative interpretations. Doctrinal interpretations (i.e., "private") may be given by canonists and theologians.
Canonists and theologians have the highest degree of ecclesiastical training and education, way beyond the mere seminary training of the average parish priest pre-Vatican II. These clerics must obtain a Doctorate in Canon Law (JCD) or a Doctorate in Sacred Theology (STD), respectively, and must produce an erudite thesis to be defended against the Board of Theologians at the University, and have it published with Magisterial approval that guarantees it is free from all doctrinal and moral errors. Furthermore, they must not be censured by the Church. That's quite a high bar.
[Benns] While this statement itself is still open to interpretation regarding the word “anyone,”
Is it? I cited no less than five of the greatest canonist pre-Vatican II that clearly show "anyone" does not mean literally "anyone," such as young Bobby the 18-year-old Traditionalist next store who dropped out of high school. (Kudos to my readers who remember young Bobby from last week's post). Benns cites...herself that ANYONE is still open to interpretation.
[Benns] ...laypersons can certainly cite Canon Law and challenge Traditionalist interpretation of the laws, pointing out that the laws are not being followed.
No. In order to cite Canon Law and point out anything, a person must first understand the basic principles and nomenclature, and Teresa can't get past the word "ANYONE." (Emphasis Benns). It reminds me of someone who took offense when I told him the jury did not declare O.J. Simpson innocent, he was declared not guilty, which is not the same thing in U.S. criminal law. Here's what happened:
1. A reader of Robbins' website emailed and claimed a canon prevented him from publishing about religion.
2. Benns sends Robbins an email citing canonist Ramstein and emphasizing ANYONE can interpret Canon Law.
3. Relying on Benns' advice, Robbins applies the rules of interpretation from canon 18 to deduce he can publish about religion.
This is called...wait for it...interpretation!
[Benns] Merely citing canons and pointing out that they apparently have not been followed according to their previous understanding by approved theologians does not constitute private interpretation. Traditionalists make no attempt whatsoever to follow these rules, and this speaks volumes regarding their supposed superiority in being able to interpret the law. (Emphasis Benns).
Like your citations regarding who can interpret Canon Law? Which canonists taught "anyone" includes young Bobby? Moreover, how is it that highly trained and respected canonists and theologians never interpreted Canon Law as HAs? To name but two:
Fr. Gommar A. DePauw, JCD, Professor of Canon Law and Moral Theology for Mount St. Mary's Seminary in the Archdiocese of Baltimore, and a peritus (theological expert) at Vatican II who fought against the Modernists.
Fr. Martin Stepanich, STD rejected the heresies of Vatican II and continued to celebrate the True Mass and sacraments.
These competent clerics never thought that we are bound to stay HA and may not attend Traditionalist chapels. Yes, we must look to authoritative Church decisions, and the teachings of theologians and canonists. We must also apply the correct principles such as epikeia. Benns does not do this at all.
[Benns] In their Canon Law Digest commentary on Can. 17, Vol. 5 (1963), the canonists Bouscaren and O’Connor write the following:
“His eminence, the president of the Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of the Canons of the Code, Maximus Cardinal Massimi, declared shortly before his death… that it was his personal opinion he no longer preferred to give authentic replies since all the canons were already sufficiently clear in their obvious meaning. It is interesting to observe that no officially promulgated replies have since been given for the Code of the Latin church since his death [in 1954].” So this very experienced cardinal, the last of his kind, believed that the Code should be taken exactly as it stood, supplemented by the authentic interpretations already given for over 35 years. And pointing to them exactly as they stand is all I have ever tried to do. (Emphasis Benns).
Like the Feeneyites, Benns insists that anyone can read "the obvious meaning" of the words in Canon Law. In a similar fashion, Protestants reject the Magisterium on the grounds that they can "read the Bible for themselves." The cardinal said the canons were "clear in their obvious meaning"--to whom? Anyone? Young Bobby? (Maybe Bobby can do Mr. Robbins next guest post). No, it is understood that it is clear to those properly trained (canonists and theologians), just as the legal meaning of "not guilty" is clear to lawyers, not the average non-lawyer.
[Benns] I will match my 40 years of intensive private study from approved sources to theirs any day. Challenge that and you are going to have to tear down the entire concept of self-study, homeschooling and explain why there are so many Nobel Prize winners and other award-winning individuals on the long list of famous autodidacts.
Pride certainly goeth before the fall, doesn't it? After 40 years of "intensive study," Benns (a) does not understand basic Canon Law verbiage, (b) thought she could "elect a pope in Kansas" with six "electors" and (c) has the audacity to compare herself to Nobel Prize winners. To be clear, an autodidact cannot simply claim to have studied law on his own and be allowed to practice law. Passing the Bar Exam (and other rigorous requirements in the absence of a JD from an ABA-approved law school) are required. Likewise, an autodidact cannot study medical books for a certain number of years and practice as a doctor; there are major and rigorous requirements there as well. If these exist for those who must protect a person's property, freedom, and life, how much more important is the soul?
40 years of intensive study doth not a canonist/theologian make, especially considering the egregious errors committed. The only award Benns should get is the Booby Prize.
3. Setting the Record Straight: It was in a Store...
[Introibo]“Benns, using her phenomenal research ability, decided that she could “call a conclave” to elect a pope. All true Catholics from around the world were allegedly contacted in a world without computers, and there were only six “electors” that came to the Kansas farmhouse of one David Bawden, a former seminarian of the SSPX who had been expelled. The “electors” consisted of Bawden, his mommy and daddy, two nice neighbors, and Benns… She has since renounced Bawden, and was “excommunicated” by him, leaving those poor souls following him in peril for their salvation. Nice going, Teresa Benns.” (But Introibo claims this is not an ad hominem or personal attack…) (part in parenthesis added by Benns).
[Benns]Well try getting your facts straight and maybe you would have better luck documenting your non-existent case.
Ok, Teresa, set me straight!
[Benns]In several articles for Traditional Catholic publications and in the book written prior to the election, I begged Catholics for input for three years before proceeding, and received only rude and vague, non-committal replies...Bawden was not elected at his residence, but a store owned by his parents. Two neighbors did not help elect him, but two longtime friends, former SSPX members, who attended from out of state. Others also were present at various times.(Emphasis in original by Benns).
You're right! These facts change my entire analysis! When I was first told in the mid-1990s there was some guy in Kansas claiming to be elected "pope" by his mommy, his daddy, two nice neighbors, and a lay "theologian" on a farm, I though it was a joke. That was the reaction of every single person who heard it for the first time from me. That just seems crazy, and you can't believe any sane person would do that. However, had I known that David Bawden, an SSPX seminary-reject was "elected pope" in a Kansas STORE by his mommy, his daddy, a self-anointed theologian, and TWO LONGTIME FRIENDS from out of state, it would seem not only sane, but the epitome of theological genius worthy of Aquinas and Liguori! Please.
[Benns]Every individual originally involved with Bawden from 1990-2007 left him and remained pray-at-home Catholics. I spent two years on the Internet debunking every error that led to the “election” in order to warn off those who might follow him after I left. I engaged in email correspondence with them. What else would you have suggested??? (Emphasis in original by Benns).
He has 30 to 100 followers today; whether they were there or not. His mother is still with him, so your statement is demonstrably false. There's even a documentary on Bawden available on YouTube. I can't tell you how many times I've been approached by someone who knows my religious views and shows me that documentary saying, "This is how crazy sedevacantism is--you go and elect a pope!" Benns tried to undo what she did, but I suggest she shut down her site and never publish on Catholicism again. If I had a lapse of reason and tried electing a pope as she did, I would be too mortified to be seen in public, yet she continues to hold herself out as an ersatz "expert."
[Benns]And how about all the THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS Traditionalists have helped to commit sacrilege, idolatry and other sins?!!
"Sacrilege, idolatry and other sins" according to...your interpretation of Canon Law. We see how competent you are at doing that.
[Benns] As far as this not being an ad hominem attack goes, I don’t think you fully understand the meaning of ad hominem.
Oh, I understand a lot of things, Mrs. Benns--and understand better than you.
[Benns] Catholic manuals on logic describe it as, “Confusion of the person with the issue “(Oesterle); “ridicule of an adversary” (Walsh). Avoidance of the real issues of validity and lack of jurisdiction, also ridicule have always been Traditionalists’ stock-in-trade.
As I explained in my previous post: "Lest anyone accuse me of an ad hominem attack on Benns, let me make myself clear. It is not ad hominem to point out that someone who purports (de facto or de jure) to be an expert or highly knowledgeable on some subject, is not knowledgeable as they claim. As a lawyer, I have many times impeached expert witnesses on their alleged credentials. Also, a person's prior bad acts may sometimes be bought up in court to show a propensity to do something. In certain circumstances, a witness who had previously been convicted of perjuring themselves in a past court case, can have that fact introduced by the opposing lawyer to show a propensity to lie. Finally, the fact that Benns is a woman will never be used against her. I will not (and need not) use that to expose her as a pseudo-expert in research, theology, and canon law. Anyone who therefore claims that I used her gender against her is both dishonest and using a red herring. ---Introibo"
She conveniently left that explanation out. Furthermore, according to logician Gensler, the non-fallacious way to argue is as follows:
"Rick believes A is true. In holding this, Rick violates legitimate rational standards (for example, Rick is inconsistent, biased, or not correctly informed). Therefore, Rick isn't fully reasonable in holding A...A "personal attack" argument can be either legitimate or fallacious. It's legitimate in our example; here we conclude that Rick, because he violates rational standards, isn't fully reasonable in his beliefs." (See Introduction to Logic, [2002], pg. 334; Emphasis mine). I'll leave it to my readers to decide if trying to elect a pope in a store with six "electors" violates rational standards.
Here's an example of a fallacious ad hominem against me by HA "Bp." Joseph Marie.
Here is my original post:
introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2016/05/doubting-yourself-in-extreme.html
Here is his reply:
bishopjosephmarie.org/doctrine/introibo.html
Here is my rejoinder:
introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2016/08/sophistry-on-steroids.html
The ad hominem of Joe, like many others, is that I'm wrong or evil because I'm anonymous, which he calls "hiding."
Joe writes: "The author of this article, Introibo ad Altare Dei, has chosen to hide his identity. If you go to Introibo’s blog and look up his profile, you’ll find a blank page. There’s zero information about him. Whoever he is, he is hiding. Interesting. The devil hides. Members of Freemasonry and other secret societies hide. Spies hide. Thieves, robbers, murders, rapists and other criminals hide."
What does being anonymous have to do with my arguments? Does anonymity make me incompetent or violate rational standards? Does it make me the devil, a Freemason, a spy, a robber, a murderer, or a rapist? HA using fallacious ad hominem--a textbook example.
If we really want to talk about someone along the lines you mention, regarding false authority and bad acts, lets talk Bp. Thuc. There is eyewitness and handwritten testimony that should prove to any rational human being the man was at the very least non compos mentis and even as an allegedly full-blown “sede” presented as a member of the Novus Ordo church. But of course that could never be interpreted as the “external manifestation” of a contrary intention to consecrate.
We agree: it could never be interpreted as the “external manifestation” of a contrary intention to consecrate. For a thorough refutation of Thuc adversaries, please see the amazing and brilliant tome of Mr. Mario Derksen of Novus Ordo Watch. His logic is airtight and his facts are well-supported. See http://thucbishops.com.
4. A False Analogy is like a Leaky Screwdriver.
[Introibo] [In reference to T. Benns writings in light of the Bawden affair]: “If a surgeon operated on a person with a diseased lung, and removed the normal lung, leaving the diseased lung inside and causing the death of the patient afterwards, would you want him operating on you (if he kept his license by some miracle)?”
As an attorney you should be able to easily spot a false analogy, but obviously not. You just portrayed me as ignorant and incompetent and now you’re comparing me to someone with credentials; not the same at all. A misinformed but well-intentioned laywoman might make an honest mistake, right?
I was being benevolent in making my analogy! (And Teresa thinks all men are against her because she's a woman! Benns always plays the victim card). An honest mistake is eating meat on Friday, thinking it's really Thursday. The height of incompetence (or insanity, take your pick) is thinking you can elect a pope in a store with "six electors." The better analogy is a plumber thinking he can perform open heart surgery because he has experience "cleaning out pipes" and studied medical books at home like a Nobel Prize winning autodidact. There's a name for anyone delusional enough to let the plumber operate on him/her: they will be known as a "cadaver." Will you risk your soul with Benns?
5. Cult-like Activity.
[Benns] And don’t shine me on about the cult-like atmosphere of these Trad groups; I’ve seen them at work. Coercive persuasion comes in many forms, and one of them parades as the whisper into the devotee’s ear, “If you don’t have the Sacraments, you can’t earn the graces you need to get to Heaven.”
Um, would that "cult-like atmosphere" include Benns writing on her website that "if you don't stay HA you're outside the Church and going to Hell"?
6. More "Bennsian Error."
The most pernicious error in Benns' reply is regarding jurisdiction in danger of death and a papal interregnum. I cited St. Alphonsus Liguori, whom the Holy See has pronounced all his opinions safe to follow in practice. He said jurisdiction is supplied "in a long sea voyage, in a difficult delivery, in a dangerous disease, and similar cases…The same is true of one who is in probable danger of falling into insanity (amentia)…and the same of those who are captives among infidels with small hope of liberty. For it is believed that they will have no other priests in the future."
She states she does not hold to this because:
1. "...only a canonically elected Roman Pontiff can supply the necessary jurisdiction in danger of death"
2. "St. Alphonsus is safe to follow, but different rules apply during an interregnum."
3. "Trads always try to trump the popes with a theologian."
4. "As Pope Pius XII defined in Mystici Corporis, all episcopal jurisdiction comes through the Roman Pontiff. It is a Protestant heresy to believe otherwise."
Got all that? First, she is claiming that Pope Pius XII made an ex cathedra pronouncement in Mystici Corporis, that all episcopal jurisdiction comes through the Roman Pontiff, the denial of which constitutes heresy. This is demonstrably wrong.
As theologian Salaverri teaches, "On the mediate or immediate origin from God of the jurisdiction of Bishops. This question was raised in the Councils of Trent and Vatican, but it was not decided. Several authors with Victoria and Vasquez held that the jurisdiction was given immediately by God to the individual Bishops; but generally Catholic authors with St. Thomas, St. Bonaventure, St. Robert Bellarmine and Suarez hold that jurisdiction is given to the Bishops immediately not by God but mediated through the Roman Pontiff. Pius XII teaches this opinion positively in the Encyclical Mystici Corporis, when he says: 'But Bishops so far as their own diocese is concerned...are not completely independent but are subject to the Roman Pontiff, although they enjoy ordinary power of jurisdiction received directly from the Sovereign Pontiff himself.' We think that his opinion is to be preferred." (See Sacrae Theologiae Summa IB, [1955], pgs. 144-145; Emphasis mine).
Approved theologians choose their words very carefully or they will be censured as heretics. If Benns were correct that to hold Bishops get jurisdiction immediately from God is "Protestant heresy," how is it that the Council of Trent, convened specifically to deal with Protestantism, discussed this very question and did not condemn it? Moreover, if it was infallibly decided by Pope Pius XII (this would be a prerequisite for it to be labeled heresy), then theologian Fr. Joachim Salaverri, one of the theological giants pre-Vatican II, taught heresy in his theology manual and was not censured by Pope Pius, the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, and the Bishops with Ordinary jurisdiction who approved his work and allowed its use in the seminary. Can you imagine an approved theologian in 1955 writing that the Assumption of Mary is "an opinion to be preferred" and not "dogma to be definitively held" without being censured as a heretic?
This proves that Pope Pius XII did not define, or declare as no longer subject to theological debate, the teaching that Bishops receive jurisdiction immediately from God. Furthermore, there is not a single canonist or theologian that teaches supplied jurisdiction in danger of death can only be given to a priest to absolve a dying penitent if there is no papal interregnum. Is it possible they just didn't mention it? Hardly. To illustrate the problem, let's suppose a Catholic was in immediate danger of death on February 13, 1939, two days after the death of Pope Pius XI, and seventeen days before the election of Pope Pius XII. There is no Catholic priest with jurisdiction available, only an excommunicated Catholic priest, who is willing to hear the Confession of the dying penitent, with all measures taken to prevent perversion of the penitent. According to Benns the absolution would be invalid because there is no pope sitting on the throne of St. Peter. I dare Benns to present one (just one) theologian, canonist, papal decree, decree from a Roman Congregation, or teaching of an Ecumenical Council that declares this nonsense to be the case.
The Church in the Great Apostasy
Approved theologians taught there could be an extended interregnum as we have today, and therefore it cannot be incompatible with maintaining the Four Marks.
According to theologian Dorsch, "The Church therefore is a society that is essentially monarchical. But this does not prevent the Church, for a short time after the death of a pope, OR EVEN FOR MANY YEARS, from remaining deprived of her head. [vel etiam per plures annos capite suo destituta manet]. Her monarchical form also remains intact in this state.…Thus the Church is then indeed a headless body.… Her monarchical form of government remains, though then in a different way — that is, it remains incomplete and to be completed. The ordering of the whole to submission to her Primate is present, even though actual submission is not…
For this reason, the See of Rome is rightly said to remain after the person sitting in it has died — for the See of Rome consists essentially in the rights of the Primate.
These rights are an essential and necessary element of the Church. With them, moreover, the Primacy then continues, at least morally. The perennial physical presence of the person of the head, however, [perennitas autem physica personis principis] is not so strictly necessary." (de Ecclesia 2:196–7; Emphasis mine).
Therefore, the Church can remain for many years deprived of a pope, and the form of government remains "then in a different way." Moreover, there was a historical situation in the Church for 51 years called The Great Western Schism. From 1378 until 1429, when Pope Martin V became the universally recognized pontiff, there were up to three claimants to the papal throne, all with arguments for their legitimacy. Only one (or possibly none) could have been the true pope. Which one, if any, was it? Mutual excommunications, appointing bishops and cardinals; to whom do you submit? There was no discernible pope, so according to the pope= jurisdiction exclusively theory, the Church would have defected--an impossibility. In an age of much shorter life spans there could have been no bishops left with Ordinary jurisdiction, had none of the claimants been a true pope. That the Church is Indefectible is a dogma of the Faith.
Bp. Pivarunas, commenting on the Great Western Schism writes:
Fr. Zapelena (an approved theologian) states that jurisdiction was supplied by the true pope to those bishops who mistakenly followed the wrong papal claimant. Furthermore, he also defends his thesis in the hypothetical supposition that if all three papal claimants were doubtful popes and therefore no popes at all, Christ Himself would have conferred jurisdiction as much as was necessary.
Why is this so? The Catholic Church is indefectible and must always remain the institution of salvation as established by Christ. The proof of this thesis can be demonstrated from the historical fact that with the election of Pope Martin V and the end of the schism, the validity and lawfulness Of the Sacraments administered by the bishops and priests of each of the three factions (during this Great Western Schism) were never questioned. The reason for this is that jurisdiction was supplied either by the true pope or in the event there was no pope, by Christ Himself.
If one were to raise the objection that Fr. Zapelena states that jurisdiction is only supplied “on account of the common error of the faithful together with the colored title,” and that there is no “color of title” with the consecration of traditional Catholic bishops today, the answer is found in Practical Commentary on the Code of Canon Law by Rev. Stanislaus Woywod, O.F.M.., LL.B. (November 1957):
“In the old Canon Law the great majority of Canonists and moralists did not admit that common error alone was sufficient to make the exercise of jurisdiction valid; they demanded in addition the ‘titulus coloratus,’ that is to say, some act on the part of the superior which is ordinarily sufficient to confer jurisdiction, but which, on account of some secret impediment was rendered invalid. That ‘color of title’ is no longer required, and in case of common error, no matter how created, the Church supplies the jurisdiction for the benefit of the people.”(See cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/the-consecration-of-bishops-during-interregna).
As Van Noort teaches, "[During the Great Western Schism]...hierarchical unity was only materially, not formally, interrupted. Although Catholics were split three ways in their allegiance because of the doubt as to which of the [papal] contenders had been legitimately elected, still all were agreed in believing that allegiance was owed to one legitimate successor of Peter, and they stood willing to give that allegiance." (See Dogmatic Theology [1956] 2:131; First Emphasis in original, second emphasis mine). So too, Traditionalists stand "willing to give that allegiance" when there is a true pope.
The teaching of the theologians clearly show a vacancy of the Holy See lasting for an extended period of time. Such a vacancy cannot be pronounced to be incompatible with the promises of Christ as to the Indefectibility of the Church. Therefore, all Four Marks, jurisdiction, and everything else the Church requires, continue of necessity, even if we may not know the exact answers in any given situation. The Magisterium would not allow theologians to teach a hypothetical situation as a real possibility, if that would somehow be incompatible with the dogma of Indefectibility and the promises of Christ.
- I'm not interested in the truth, only in "winning my case"
- I know how to use "rhetoric" (in the pejorative sense of the word) meaning I'm being deceitful in my writing
- I'm a Communist (or at least associated with Communists) because American Law is infiltrated with them
- I'm taken as an "authority"
- The pope is actually writing to the theologians telling them, when Papa makes a decision, you listen! (Is he telling them that?)
- It’s obvious, he says, that the matter cannot be open for discussion any longer. (So obvious the approved canonists and theologians didn't get the message)
- Who cares what a (or many) theologian(s) argued. (The Church cares, Laura. That's why theology is a science and approved theologians as a body are protected by the Holy Ghost from falling into error)
- Now if the pontiff teaches something of faith and morals do we care to quibble about whether it technically amounts to heresy or some other theological censure? Introibo does. (Yes, and so does the One True Church of Christ, Laura)
- He, along with all modernists and protestants hate the word “heresy”(No, I like the word just fine, but I don't want to use it incorrectly, but as the Church uses it)
- They sometimes seem to hate it [heresy] with a passion. I wonder why that is?! (Because we are all Communist lawyers and agents of Satan with bad motives and hidden agendas, right Laura?)
- But if someone is obstinately holding an opinion against Church teaching, well I call that heresy. (Yes, but the CHURCH doesn't, Laura. That's what matters. Not what you, your husband, Benns, Matatics, Hoyle, "Bp." Joe, or anyone one else calls something. Church teaching actually matters to this Freemasonic Communist lawyer in hiding)
- I don’t stop to look up whether it’s officially been declared ex cathedra with all the right terminology (“declare, proclaim, define” etc.). (I know, Laura, being accurate and correct makes no difference to you or your spouse. However, that pesky, nitpicking Church cares!)
- I just know, if you don’t listen to Mother Church, I can call you a schismatic, if you’d prefer, but you’d still actually be a heretic for denying the supremacy of Peter and the requirement to believe whatever the Roman Pontiffs have heretofore taught. And that’s not just my opinion, that’s Church teaching, too! (It is required to believe what the pope taught, not what YOU THINK the pope taught)
- Claiming all parts of an encyclical are necessarily binding is Really Asinine
- Stating anyone (including young Bobby, the high school drop out) can interpret Canon Law is Really Asinine
- Not caring what approved theologians taught about theological notes is Really Asinine
- Not treating theology as the science it is and deserves to be treated as is Really Asinine.
- Linking your website to another website of a person so manifestly incompetent they attempted to elect a pope in a Kansas store with six electors is Really Asinine


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