Monday, July 12, 2021

Flunking Education

 

I miss the days I spent with Father DePauw. It's hard to believe he went to Judgment just over 16 years ago already. One of the most important things he stressed with me as young teenager was to obtain a good education. "Good" for him didn't mean how many years you study or the number of degrees you get, but rather everything which is learned helps a person to make their way as a True Catholic in a chosen occupation amidst a corrupt and evil world. He was amazed that I found the Faith while attending a Vatican II sect high school--one that was (literally) pagan. "After you graduate next year, avoid so-called 'Catholic' education, and public or private education will be only slightly better. Stay close to the Mass and sacraments and keep studying the One True Faith." 

I was interested in science and how Faith and science can never be in opposition, since both come to us from God. Hence, I chose to become a science teacher. I graduated with my Bachelors Degree having a double major in Philosophy and Science Education and my temporary NY State teaching license. I wanted to teach middle school, where I thought I could have the most impact in developing the character of students that age. I was hired for a middle school here in the NYC public school system. The bureaucracy was incredible and the students were mostly disrespectful and didn't care about their grades. I tried my hardest, and my students did better than most on their science test scores. Most importantly, I think I set a good example and reached some to think about "the Author of Science," probably the most exposure to faith any would receive.

At the same time, I was attending night school at a local university to obtain my Masters Degree, and with it my permanent license (at the time, teachers were required to get their Masters Degree within five years; otherwise your license would expire and you could no longer teach). At the beginning of my third year (when I would be up for receiving tenure at the end of that year) I submitted a paper to be published by one of the NY State science teacher associations. The topic was on how the "fine-tuning" of the universe points to an intelligent Creator--this was a few years prior to the jump-start of the Intelligent Design Movement with the 1996 publication of Dr. Michael Behe's book Darwin's Black Box. The organization went ballistic. I received a personal phone call from the president of that organization (holding an earned PhD in biology) telling me that what I wrote wasn't science but religion. I offered to debate him on it in front of other assembled teachers with doctorates who belonged to the association, and he promptly hung up on me. My paper was refused publication.

The local nine-member school board was aware, and my tenure vote was no loner guaranteed to go my way. If I resigned, I could look for a teaching job elsewhere. If I fought and defended myself to the board, a successful vote from 5 members would give me tenure. If I lost, no one will hire a teacher denied tenure. My career would be over. I decided to stay and fight. At the end of that fateful day in late March, I fought and received exactly five votes, thereby being granted tenure effective September 1st at the start of my fourth year teaching. One board member told me afterwards, "You spoke so passionately and convincingly, I thought I was listening to a lawyer in court." I had grown weary of the condition education was in, and the idea of my becoming a lawyer was born.

Fr. DePauw thought I'd make a great lawyer (his own father had been both an educator and lawyer in Belgium), and with his prayers and blessings, I studied for the LSAT the whole year. I did well and applied to several law schools at the beginning of my fifth year of teaching. In March, I received the acceptance to the law school I really wanted, and tendered my voluntary resignation from teaching effective July 1st. I would start law school that fall after having completed my Masters Degree and making my teaching license permanent.   

Things were bad in public schools in the late 1980s/early 1990s when I taught. They were even worse (both morally and academically) in so-called "Catholic" (Vatican II sect) schools; I attended one. The decay has gotten so bad, if you can homeschool your children, do it. The only school that you should send them to is a Traditionalist school, such as the ones operated by the SSPV. If you have no choice, it is better for the kids to attend public school, where you have some rights as a taxpaying citizen, than a Vatican II sect school where you have no say at all and expose them to a false sect claiming to be "Catholic." 

In this post, I will give the Church's principles on education, and the horrors you can expect from Vatican II sect schools and public schools in 2021. Fr. DePauw was an approved pre-Vatican II canonist, having received his Doctorate in Canon Law (JCD) in 1955 from the Catholic University of America. His doctoral thesis, published with Magisterial approval in 1953, was entitled The Educational Rights of the Church and Elementary Schools in Belgium. I will be stating the Church principles on education as contained in his scholarly tome, and show how they are violated today.  Canonist DePauw's work will be written in red font and my writing shall be in black font unless indicated otherwise.

The Basis of a Good Education--and Where Theories Go Wrong
But even an education aimed exclusively at making the child a good citizen still supposes true character-training and some moral formation. On the one hand the traditional Catholic doctrine is very simple, namely that religion and morality go together and cannot be successfully separated in education. On the other hand, the non-Catholic theories are complicated and inconsistent when trying to determine the character and the morality that go to make the good citizen. If there are no absolute moral standards, and if both the Church and the family are to be excluded from determining the character-formation of the child, who then shall say what sort of moral code the young citizen is to be given?

Some writers contend that "experts" should lay down some general norms in accordance with the traditional mores of the country; others call upon the State for the setting up of a code of morals; still others open the door for a veritable educational anarchy by making the children the final authority in their own education, permitting them to "adapt" the accepted mores to their own personal and social needs. (pgs. 24-25)

Here we see three false theories advocated by Masonic "separation of Church and State" public school theorists: That education should not include the family and the Catholic Church and character/moral formation must stem from (a) "experts" in education/pedagogy; (b) the State itself (think e.g., Nazi Germany and Communist China); and from the students themselves. Here's what happens when "experts" make curriculum apart from the Church, and when children are allowed to "make their own values." Let me be clear that this is not just the case with public schools, but it applies equally to the Vatican II sect schools, which have replaced the True Religion with false teaching, seeking to conform to the world. 

Here are but two examples of warped morals in school:

1. Death Education. According to one "deathspert,"  Ethel King-McKenzie:

"Teachers and parents need to find ways to expose children to the reality of death, as it will be better for them. I understand that children should not be robbed of their innocence but telling them about death will empower them. A curriculum that fails to address a topic as important as death and dying is in itself dead. Society changes and our schools and curriculum must adapt to these changes." (See "Death and Dying In the Curriculum of the Public Schools: Is There a Place," Journal of Emerging Knowledge on Emerging Markets, Vol. 3 [2011], Art. 29. Emphasis mine). 

According to one source going as far back as 1999:
"Death education has been a part of the progressive curriculum in virtually every public school in America for at least the last fifteen years. Yet no one in the establishment, let alone the U.S. Department of Education, has sought to find out what death education is doing to the minds and souls of the
millions of children who are subjected to it. But we do have plenty of anecdotal information on hand.

For example, back in 1985, Tara Becker, a student from Columbine High [where the infamous school shootings of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris took place 4/20/99---Introibo], went to a pro-family conference in Colorado to tell the attendees about death education at the school and the effect it had on her. Jayne Schindler, who heard Tara's testimony, reported:

Tara brought with her a booklet she had helped to compile for one of her school classes. This booklet was called "Masquerade" and was full of subliminal pictures and prose. Tara explained how she had been taught to use the hidden, double meaning, subliminals and how she had focused so much of her time and attention on death that she, herself, had tried to commit suicide." (See https://www.wnd.com/1999/05/2771/)

To read more on the subject of "Death Education," (which I experienced in my Vatican II sect high school), I wrote a whole post about it last November and mentioned Tara's story there as well.
See https://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2020/11/dead-serious.html.

2. Values Clarification

 I don't know how many people are aware of the insidious simulation called "Lifeboat." In this (and similar scenarios) there are more people on the boat than food to survive. You're given a list of people with "pros" (a scientist) and "cons" (the scientist is also a paraplegic). You must then decide (individually or as a class) who will live and who gets thrown into the ocean to drown. What's the purpose of doing something so hideous? It has nothing to do with critical thinking and everything to do with the evil idea that some people have a fundamental right to choose life or death for others.

 The values clarification movement was developed primarily by philosopher John Dewey, an atheist. Accordingly, behavior should be the result of free, uninfluenced, autonomous choice, based on personal analysis of a given situation coupled with the moment's emotions and desires. Rather than adherence to an external moral code, Dewey pushed something he called "valuation" in which a given situation is explored and various "solutions" discussed. This directly contradicts Church teaching on making choices based on a rightly formed conscience.

 Hence, choices are good or foolish, never right and wrong. Sin and repentance are never mentioned.

Human sexuality programs attempt to inculcate an appreciation for "waiting for marriage" by cultivating fear of bad consequences: pregnancy, disease, and heartbreak. They never state that premarital sex is sinful and they do not urge sinners to repent. Therefore, the dilemma posed to youth by their teachers is no longer a question of morality--- it is a health issue.

Canonist DePauw tells us the correct way to form character and morals in the young:
These views [discussed in his citation above---Introibo] as entertained by non-Catholic educators, are diametrically opposed to the Catholic conception of education. Though directed primarily to the supernatural end of forming "Christ Himself in those regenerated by baptism," Catholic education has never renounced the natural goal of human education, namely the formation of useful citizens. As Pope Pius XI  again stated it: "This fact is proved by the whole history of Christianity and its institutions, which is nothing else but the history of true civilization and progress up to the present day." (pg. 25). Only Traditional Catholic morality and faith can impart good character in the young for a truly great civilization. 

Prohibition of Schools
Canonist DePauw teaches that there are three types of forbidden schools:
  • the non-Catholic school
  • the neutral school
  • the mixed school
Non-Catholic schools include all denominational institutions aimed at educating their pupils on the basis of what, according to Catholic teaching, is a heretical, a schismatical, or a pagan religion...[it] is but a logical conclusion deriving from the fact that Christ founded only One Church, and that only the Catholic Church has within Herself irrefutable evidences of this divine origin. 

Neutral schools are those which out of human respect make religion an optional part, or no part at all, of the curriculum. Originated and positively intended by Freemasonry to be a weapon against any organized religion, and conducted by teachers whose "neutrality" is an educational impossibility, these theoretical neutral schools are bound to become centers of at least religious indifferentism.

Mixed schools are those where religious instruction (of whatever religion) is provided separately (usually with "release time" from the school day) and all other lessons are taught in common. Here, the danger to the faith of Catholics lies in the spirit of indifferentism, which logically flows from recognition of all faiths as being of equal worth and relative value. Besides, if religion is divorced from the rest of the program and taught as something optional, the young mind most logically will think very little of the practical value of religious doctrine. 

(All quotations in red above from canonist DePauw, pgs. 24-30).

It is noted that the Church forbids Her members to attend non-Catholic institutions unless some very special circumstances would justify an exception (See 1917 Code of Canon Law, Canon 1374). The fact that we live in such exceptional times, where Traditionalist schools are a rare gem, and not everyone can afford to be a stay at home mom, makes public school a necessity for many.  Fr. DePauw did not hesitate to say that public schools were superior to Vatican II sect schools. They are non-Catholic by teaching heresy; like neutral and mixed schools they promote indifferentism under the guise of religion--ecumenism.

Teaching Error as "Catholicism"
Infested with Indifferentism.
Here is how an middle school Vatican II sect teacher described her religion class:

"A few weeks into our study of the Church, my eighth-grade students encountered the vocabulary word ecumenism for the first time. After learning how to pronounce it properly, we broke down its meaning. Ecumenism refers to “the promotion of cooperation and unity among Christians” (USCCB, Ecumenical & Interreligious Affairs). In other words, ecumenism is the effort for Christians to come together in faith, as we are founded to be one Church by Jesus Christ, who offers all life and salvation. 

Ecumenism is the responsibility of Christians, who are called to work and pray in hope for unity. During the Second Vatican Council, Pope St. John XXIII called for a focus on ecumenism. He saw that, in today’s world of division, Christians must come together through sharing prayer and knowledge, while upholding the diversity existing in the Church. Unitatis Redintegratio, the Council’s decree on ecumenism, calls for “the attainment of union” to be the concern of the whole Church—for the “faithful and shepherds alike” (§2)  ...Inviting students to share about their faith traditions is key for ecumenical conversations, whether it be describing their denomination’s Advent traditions or articulating its teachings around the Eucharist. By inviting students to share, the conversation becomes fuller as students feel comfortable speaking up." [Will the students be told their sect's teachings are false and lead to Hell?---Introibo]

"Ecumenical living promotes the seeking of truth and the formation of community in prayer. If you are looking for examples of ecumenical living, look no further than a religion classroom in a modern Catholic school, which often includes students of Catholic and Christian denominations learning, praying, and sharing the faith together." [What faith can a Catholic "share together" with heretics and/or schismatics? This is clearly the sin of communicatio in sacris---Introibo]. (See https://mcgrathblog.nd.edu/cultivating-christian-unity-and-ecumenism-in-the-classroom).



Affirming perversity. 

“Announcing yourself to the world is pretty terrifying,” said Finn Stannard, a gay Australian Catholic high school student, adding that it’s nerve-racking to think, “What if the world doesn’t like you?”

Finn Stannard delivering his coming out speech at school.

Stannard,  then a 17-year-old student at St. Ignatius College, an all-male Jesuit Catholic high school in Sydney, was giving a speech to 1,500 of his classmates, and in it announced that he was gay. 
In what could have been a moment of rejection, Stannard was instead greeted with a standing ovation from students and staff, and the school community has since responded positively. (See https://www.newwaysministry.org/2019/01/18/coming-out-at-an-all-boys-catholic-high-school-and-getting-a-standing-ovation/).

Promoting pagan religions. Here's what some Vatican II sect educators suggest doing in their high schools:

Beyond this, field trips, speakers, weekend programs, or structured retreats with young people of other traditions are invaluable practices for students. Interfaith prayer services or participation in the spiritual paths of other traditions provide deep possibilities for encounter and transformation. Yoga, meditation, and the celebration of non-Christian cultural and religious holidays are all ways in which students can see first-hand how it is that religious traditions are living, adaptable, vibrant communal realities. Through actual interfaith experiences, students learn about other persons, but they also learn more deeply about themselves and their own faith...To teach Hindu spirituality in Catholic schools, we must be prepared to challenge students to encounter themselves in a very different way. Hindu faith is not based on the divine revelation of one male founder. The way Hindus view religious texts and mystical experience is very different. There is not a divinely revealed, institutionally sanctioned legal system that places a universal standard of conduct on all its adherents. Hindus have no particularly recognized spokesperson with an official view on almost any subject. In some schools of Hinduism, sacred self is conceived in terms of a relationship with God (one’s real identity is that of a child of the Divine Mother, or the servant of God, or the friend of God), while other schools conceive sacred self as nondifferential union with Brahman, the all-pervading Divine Reality. Nevertheless, experiential realization is central for Hindu traditions, however differently that may be envisioned and practiced. Such an experiential emphasis is a powerful place to begin teaching Hinduism in Catholic high schools; for it offers a starting point for exploring Hinduism that can both highlight the similarities and differences with Christianity, as well as ground that exploration in a spiritual journey.

(See Viewpoint: Teaching Hinduism in Catholic High Schools;
 https://digitalcommons.butler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1487&context=jhcs: Emphasis mine; No comment necessary). 

Conclusion
If you care for the welfare of your child's one and only immortal soul, please homeschool if at all possible. The only exception is if you are blessed to be near a Traditionalist Catholic school, like the ones run by the SSPV; make whatever sacrifice necessary to send your children there if at all possible. If your child must attend public school, please be an active parent and demand to know what is taught in the curriculum. Don't allow the acceptance of sodomites and sexual perversion in the name of "anti-bullying education." Being opposed to a certain lifestyle is not being hateful or bigoted. It is bigoted to teach them acceptance is necessary thereby making your faith false. Get a lawyer to write to the school board about religious discrimination. Be prepared to counter every bit of the "woke" curriculum as it creeps in. Keep your kids close to the Mass and sacraments.

Vatican II sect schools are spiritual suicide; they do the same (or worse) than public schools in the name of "Catholicism." Don't allow your child to be so exposed and confused like that. This is a battle for your child's soul. If you think I'm overstating my case, here's what canonist DePauw wrote in 1953:
Suffice it to say that there will always be a chasm dividing those who believe in God as the ultimate norm of morality for man created for a supernatural end, and those who look upon man as another temporary worker experimenting on this globe in order to get the best and the most out of this short existence. 

81 comments:

  1. A compilation of what popes teach regarding the forbidden nature of sending children to public/mixed schools:
    https://stevensperay.wordpress.com/2017/09/19/papal-teaching-on-non-catholic-and-public-schools/

    Lee

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    1. Lee,
      An excellent resource from an excellent blogger! Thank you for sharing!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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  2. When I was in elementary school in the 1980s, Catholic religion classes still existed. The teachers had known, for the most part, the classical colleges and were still imbued with the true religion, although it was after Vatican 2 and we were not taught, for example, to pray the Rosary. I remember a prayer being said before dinner (we ate at home and then came back to school). And there were lessons given by Novus Ordo pastoral workers.

    Today, there are no more Catholic religion classes in public schools in my province. They have been replaced by a course called "Ethics and Religious Culture" in which all religions are introduced to be equal. It is obvious that the young people who have these courses will not learn that there is only one true religion and one Church but rather that they will be inculcated in the Masonic values ​​praised by the Vatican 2 sect.

    I have no children and sometimes I am happy about that because if they were to attend the modern school system, they would come out of there as atheists, "pro-choice", pro-LGBT and convinced that we must save the "mother Earth". I think of this saying of Christ: "When the Son of man comes, will He find Faith on Earth ?"

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    1. Simon,
      Interesting! I wasn't aware there were Catholic classes in the public schools of Canada at one time. Sadly, I must agree with you that it is EXTREMELY difficult raising children these days with the schools wanting to turn out neo-pagans. As to Christ's rhetorical question, the answer is "there will only be very few left in the Church." May we persevere until the end!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    2. Until the 1960s, the public school system in the province of Quebec was run by the Church, then it became secular, but Catholic religion lessons were still given to students (except moral lessons for non-Catholics) . Then, in the late 1990s, the school system became based on the language spoken by students (French or English) rather than on religious affiliation. Today, some want to abolish this course of ethics and religious culture which replaced the courses of Catholic religion. It will surely happen one day, as opponents of religion say it is a private matter. But teaching Masonic values, the "right to abortion", "gay marriage", euthanasia, no problem for them ...

      Delete
    3. Simon,
      I believe you are right; the whole "Woke" curriculum will be coming to Canada. The only thing that surprises me is that it isn't there already!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    4. It's sad to hear about what has happened to Quebec. Once a bastion of Catholic values it's turned into a decadent secular homebrew. I went to Quebec a few years back for vacation and saw numerous churches either being sold or appropriated for light shows. It was sad to see.

      I wish I could go back to the past and live in Quebec during the 1950s honestly. The Church seemed to be in its glory then.

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    5. @anon4:06
      Very sad; and worldwide thanks to Vatican II.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    6. Anonymous, you are absolutely right. We French Canadians fought to keep the French language and the Catholic religion against British colonization. But unfortunately, the Enemy came during the night and sowed its seeds which bore bad fruit. Now, Quebec is a champion defender of abortion, "same-sex marriage", euthanasia and secularism.

      Lefties and apostates here qualify the period before the 1960s as the "Great Darkness". I believe that this corresponds more to the current period. Before this period, there were no abortions in large quantities, nor sodomites claiming the same advantages as married couples, nor euthanasia euphemistically qualified as "medical aid in dying", which some want to extend to children and people with degenerative diseases and unable to decide for themselves(sounds familiar?). The Word is the Light which enlightens every man by coming into the world, but the world has turned away from the Light because his works were bad. The woes affecting this evil world have only just begun.

      Delete
    7. I've read there was one pre-1968 Catholic Bishop in Western Canada who continued the traditional Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and conferred sacraments using the traditional Rites,including Holy Orders,until 1982.
      God bless -Andrew

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  3. Don't forget pornographic, erotic literature books. Some kids are made to read 13 Reasons Why, the gravely immoral, suicide promoting book.

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    1. @anon10:11
      You are absolutely correct. "Human sexuality" classes (sometimes referred to as "Health" class, are sheer porn. 13 Reasons Why is both a decadent book and there was a series on Netflix of the same name. Both promote suicide and make it seem "romantic" and "noble" when it is a straight path to Hell.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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  4. Back in the 1990's I taught third grade in a Novus Ordo "Catholic" school. I got into trouble with the principal, a religious sister, because I taught my class how to pray the Rosary. We prayed together every day in October after lunch. One would think that was appropriate for eight year olds in a "Catholic" school. But I was in trouble because a Methodist parent on the school's board of directors complained that her son (who was in my class) was begging to become Catholic and wanted the family to pray the Rosary at home.

    So much wrong with that.

    I left the Novus Ordo in 1997.

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    1. Milkbone,
      That was the best decision you ever made! Even in the 1990s under "Pope" "St." John Paul the Great (Apostate), it was true that "Proselytism is solemn nonsense"!

      Thank you for sharing your story.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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  5. Introibo,

    Would you consider writing a critique of Eastern Orthodoxy (Heterodoxy), specifically against a man named Jay Dyer? He unfortunately misleads a lot of people (sedevacantist, semi trads and even Novus Ordos) with his religious theology and philosophy. He comes across as arrogant and I'm aware that the Dimond brothers have already done a critique on him, but I think it would be better coming from somebody other than them who represents true Catholicism.

    One problem with Eastern Orthodoxy is their heretical and anti biblical stance against the Nicene Creed where Catholics say they believe in the Holy Ghost, who proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque).

    This is what the catechism of Trent has to say about that:

    "Who Proceedeth from the Father and the Son"

    "With regard to the words immediately succeeding: who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, the faithful are to be taught that the Holy Ghost proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son, as from one principle. This truth is proposed for our belief by the Creed of the Church, from which no Christian may depart, and is confirmed by the authority of the Sacred Scriptures and of Councils.

    Christ the Lord, speaking of the Holy Ghost, says: He shall glorify me, because he shall receive of mine. We also find that the Holy Ghost is sometimes called in Scripture the Spirit of Christ, sometimes, the Spirit of the Father; that He is one time said to be sent by the Father, another time, by the Son, -- all of which clearly signifies that He proceeds alike from the Father and the Son. He, says St. Paul, who has not the Spirit of Christ belongs not to him. In his Epistle to the Galatians he also calls the Holy Ghost the Spirit of Christ: God hath sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father. In the Gospel of St. Matthew, He is called the Spirit of the Father: It is not you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you.

    Our Lord said, at His Last Supper: When the Paraclete cometh whom I will send you, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me. On another occasion, that the Holy Ghost will be sent by the Father, He declares in these words: whom the Father will send in my name. Understanding these words to denote the procession of the Holy Ghost, we come to the inevitable conclusion that He proceeds from both Father and Son.

    The above are the truths that should be taught with regard to the Person of the Holy Ghost."

    Lee

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    1. Lee,
      I plan to do a critique of EO as part of my "When Strangers Come Knocking" series. It is a complex religion so it will be coming out, but not right away.

      ---Introibo

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    2. One can also read:
      https://novusordowatch.org/2018/05/why-eastern-orthodoxy-is-not-the-true-religion/

      Includes writing of Fr. Benedict Hughes, CMRI.

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    3. I would like to see a Catholic refute this article point by point: https://orthochristian.com/104360.html

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    4. Huh, I was under the impression that the whole issue with the Filioque was a superficial matter of semantics. I was looking through St. Alphonsus Liguori's History of Heresies because I remembered reading about the East and I found the following:

      The word Filioque, "and from the Son," which was added to the Creed by the Latin Church, to explain that the Holy Ghost proceeds both from the Father and the Son, as from one principle, was again debated. Mark, the Greek Archbishop of Ephesus, was the most strenuous opposer of this addition; it was unlawful, he said, to add anything to the ancient Symbols of the Church, but our Theologians replied, that the promise made by Jesus Christ to assist his Church was not confined to any period, but lasts till the end of time: " Behold, I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world " (Matt, xxviii. 20). The word Consubstantial was not, said they, in the Creed at first; and for all that the Council of Nice thought it necessary to add it, to put an end to the subterfuges of the Arians, and explain that the Word was of the same substance as, and in all things equal to, the Father. The Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon, also, made an addition to the Nicene Creed, to explain the two natures of Christ, Divine and human, against Nestorius, who taught that he was a mere man ; and against Eutyches, who asserted that the human was absorbed by the Divine nature. Hence they argued that the words, " and from the Son," were added to the Symbol ; not to prove that the ancient Symbols were imperfect, but to declare more clearly the truth of the Faith, and that the declaration of the truth ought not to be called an addition, but rather an explanation. The Council, therefore, defined : *" That this truth should be believed by all Christians; that the Holy Ghost is eternally from the Father and the Son, and that his essence and being is both from the Father and the Son, and that he proceeds eternally from both, as from one principle, and by one spiration; and that this is what the Holy Fathers mean by saying that he proceeds from the Father by the Son ; and when the Greeks speak of the Son as the cause, and the Latins the principle, together with the Father, of the subsistence of the Holy Ghost, they both mean the same thing."*

      Now whether or not the EO have departed from this understanding since the Council of Florence is something I don't know.

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    5. How does this in any way refute Dyer's article? What is your point?

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    6. History of the Heretics, by St Alphonsus, is in the archive

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    7. @anon4:04
      Dapouf is citing the great Doctor of the Church, St. Alphonsus Liguori, to show the EO are not correct in attacking "Filioque." I will, however, write more for a whole post. Thanks Dapouf!

      ---Introibo

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    8. @anon4:04
      My apologies, I meant to respond to Lee but forgot to specify. I was trying to say that I had thought there wasn't an actual problem with the Filioque between the East and West but rather that it was semantic confusion. I cited St. Alphonsus Liguori to show this point. However, I made a mistake by forgetting that the Eastern Orthodox entail more than simply the Greek Orthodox. It is the latter that I was referring to in my response. However, my response is in reference to the Greek Orthodox at the time of the Council of Florence which is why I added at the bottom that I didn't know whether or not the Greek Orthodox had departed from this understanding of the Filioque for a heretical stance nowadays. I don't even know who this Dyer person is so I was just commenting (for the purpose of my own clarification) on the issue of the Filioque between the Greek Orthodox and Latin Church.

      God bless,
      Dapouf

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    9. Anon@8:06 AM,

      Notwithstanding that Mr. Dyer's zeal in general against (post-V2) Rome for faithlessness falls flat in light of the Orthodox Church's membership in the World Council of Churches (i.e. a falsely ecumenical gathering of numerous non-Catholic churches and denominations, a flat contradiction to the unity of faith), his particular post you cite undercuts itself for one simple reason: all throughout it, he accuses Catholicism of teaching as dogma that the Holy Ghost is the "product" of the Father and the Son.

      Now, only one of Dyer's cited quotes uses the words "produce" (which appears to be an unfortunate word choice by Ludwigg Ott, as the other quotes Ott cites in Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma on this matter used 'proceeds' or 'procession' instead of 'produce'; however, this may be undercut by how in the very next item, Ott explicitly states that "The Holy Ghost does not proceed through *generation* but through spiration", which weakens the accusation that this is production via creation; see here for the source: https://archive.org/details/fundamentals-of-catholic-dogma-ludwig-ott/page/65/mode/2up); all others use "proceeds", "procession", or some other equivalent.

      In other words, Mr. Dyer is implicitly saying that procession is identical to production (or creation), which is not even apparent on its face, much less true! He is in fact attacking a **straw man**.

      Besides, I find the Orthodox critiques that the Holy Spirit comes "from the Father alone" to be rather nonsensical in light of Scripture. Using their own default English translation (https://www.goarch.org/chapel/bible), the Contemporary English Version, we have the following passages which identify the Holy Spirit as being of Christ:

      Galatians 4:6 - "Now that we are his children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts. And his Spirit tells us that God is our Father."

      Romans 8:9 - "You are no longer ruled by your desires, but by God's Spirit, who lives in you. People who don't have the Spirit of Christ in them don't belong to him."

      Philippians 1:18-19 - "...All that matters is that people are telling about Christ, whether they are sincere or not. This is what makes me glad. I will keep on being glad, because I know that your prayers and the help that comes from the Spirit of Christ Jesus will keep me safe."

      Now, how to square this with Scripture elsewhere (e.g. Matthew 10:20, 1 Corinthians 2:10-11) saying that the Holy Spirit is of the Father? This is where the double procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father and the Son comes in.

      Nowever, if double procession were an act of creation or production, Mr. Dyer might be onto something. But since procession != production, his vitriol is just that. A point-by-point refutation is unnecessary. (But that's just my opinion.)

      This article from the Old Catholic Encyclopedia provides a nice summary of the whole issue: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06073a.htm

      Sincerely,

      A Simple Man

      Delete
    10. Thank you all: Introibo, Dapouf, ASM.

      Another thing Dyer the liar gets wrong is his denial of papal primacy. He likes to use Acts 15 to make it sound like St. James has the same authority as St. Peter in Jerusalem when making the decision about circumcision.

      The most ridiculous thing Dyer ever said around the time he got "fed up" with Christianity and started reading the Jewish Kabbala was, "Yeah man--I especially like to get really high and read the doctors of the Church. It's best to try to do canonical studies when you're blitzed, too. In fact, I had to get stoned off my a$$ before I finally grasped the apophatic nature of the divine ousia, as opposed to the experimental nature of the enhypostatized energies. Seriously theological studies require a LOT of weed."

      In the last couple of years he has also mocked God by showing pictures of himself with Adam McIlwee (a singer with the group, "Wicca phase springs eternal") while standing in front of a inverted cross while also promoting them.

      A sick individual and yet so many who are unaware of his flip flopping past and his condemned theology that they are duped by him because he sounds "so smart."

      Lee

      Delete
    11. Lee, Dyer doesn't deny papal primacy. No Orthodox Christian does. As for changing religions, so what? I know lots of people who changed religions. Dyer is very smart. Just read some of his papers instead of watching Dimond brother videos because your comment makes you look foolish. By the way, maybe you should try and debate Dyer on his discord and find out how smart he is. What do you say Lee?

      Delete
    12. Anon@3:01 PM,

      Your comment that Lee should stop "watching Dimond brother videos" is proof positive that you're the equivalent of a radio show 'seminar caller', or perhaps a 'drive-by poster'.

      Why do I say that? Because you clearly don't know Lee at all if you think he in any way supports or follows the Dimond Brothers.

      Sincerely,

      A Simple Man

      Delete
    13. @anon3:01
      I second A Simple Man's statement above. Lee is a very intelligent man who knows his faith well--better than most. He is no Feeneyite and would never waste his time watching ANYTHING Fred and Bobby produce.

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    14. Jay Dyer will dodge the Orthodox belonging to World Council of Churches.

      He also will not acknowledge the Orthodox patriarchs being as progressive as the Novus Ordo anti-Popes and how the Orthodox are not united with the same dogma.

      For instance,the Armenians are Monophisytes while the Greeks believe in the Holy Trinity.

      Stay away from him,he seems like a megalomaniac who longs to be the
      Hunter S.Thompson of theology.

      God bless -Andrew

      Delete
    15. Huh? The monophysite Armenians are not Orthodox, they're not in communion with the Greek or Russian Orthodox. Monophyistes also believe in the Trinity. Just some correction.

      (I'm a different anon)

      Delete
    16. Anon 3:01,

      I see you like listening to Dyer. So sad.

      Papal primacy means that the pope has full, supreme, and universal power over the entire Church and consequently cannot error. Dyer does not believe in this, otherwise he and every other Orthodox person would believe in Vatican I which says:

      "What is more, with the approval of the second Council of Lyons, the Greeks made the following profession: "The Holy Roman Church possesses the supreme and full primacy and principality over the whole Catholic Church. She truly and humbly acknowledges that she received this from the Lord himself in blessed Peter, the prince and chief of the apostles, whose successor the Roman Pontiff is, together with the fullness of power. And since before all others she has the duty of defending the truth of the faith, so if any questions arise concerning the faith, it is by her judgment that they must be settled."[57]

      Then there is the definition of the Council of Florence: "The Roman Pontiff is the true vicar of Christ, the head of the whole Church and the father and teacher of all Christians; and to him was committed in blessed Peter, by our lord Jesus Christ, the full power of tending, ruling and governing the whole Church...

      For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles. Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this See of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: "I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren." Dogmatic Constitution Pastor Aeternus Chapter 4 2,6

      My last comment made me look foolish? I was quoting Dyer who is the real fool for saying he likes to get high when reading about the Church. So the question is are you high too? I've listen to some of his debates and he doesn't get a lot things right regarding Catholicism/sedevacantism etc. neither does his buddy in crime John Pontrello who suffers the real delusion. BTW Pontrello debated Steve Speray and on his own website admitted that "I also pulled my articles in order to review their content. I will re-post most of them after I am able to clean them up a bit; others may be permanently retired." Why would that be? Is it because Speray made him look bad? Debating these people is a waste of time because they are not of good will. A simple critique in writing suffices and if people want to see the truth, they can read it for themselves.

      Lee

      Delete
    17. Today is the feast of St. Henry, King of Germany, later Holy Roman Emperor.

      He was the one who succeeded in persuading Pope Benedict VIII to include the word "Filioque" in the Nicene Creed.

      Delete
    18. Lee, Orthodox accept Rome's primacy of honor but not jurisdiction because that is not how the ancient church operated. But cite a canon from the first 7 Councils that supports Vatican I if you can find one. Your attacks on Dyer's personality is indicative of a person who can't rebut his arguments. At least ASM attempted it. I'm not sure what pontrello and speray have to do with this. I listen to many people's arguments, even if I disagree with them. Finally, I really think you should get into a debate with Dyer and make sure you tell him what you think of him. It is not a waste of your time. Debates are supposed to clarify the truthfulness or falsity of a position and since you say he gets a lot of things wrong I think a lot of people would be interested in hearing about them as well as Jay's responses.

      Delete
    19. PS Here you go Lee...
      https://twitter.com/Jay_D007/status/1415698930705313795

      Delete
    20. Why do they refer to themselves as
      "Armenian Orthodox?"
      -Andrew

      Delete
    21. @anon11:35
      "Primacy of honor" is not the way the "ancient Church operated." Lee points out my friend and sedevacantist blogger Steve Speray did a fine job taking out Pontrello. I'll have plenty to say when my critique comes out.

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    22. Anon 11:35

      You cannot "honor" the primacy of Peter and his successors, if you reject his/their authority over the whole Church? The Church operated the same as it has always operated. Vatican I must be believed.

      Here is what the Early Church fathers of the East had to say about the authority of St. Peter over the other Apostles:

      St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople (c. 387)

      "And why, then, passing by the others, does He converse with Peter on these things? (John 21:15). He was the chosen one of the Apostles, and the mouth of the disciples, and the leader of the choir. On this account, Paul also went up on a time to see him rather than the others (Galatians 1:18). And withal, to show him that he must thenceforward have confidence, as the denial was done away with, He puts into his hands the presidency over the brethren. And He brings not forward the denial, nor reproches him with what had past, but says, 'If you love me, preside over the brethren ...and the third time He gives him the same injunction, showing what a price He sets the presidency over His own sheep. And if one should say, 'How then did James receive the throne of Jerusalem?,' this I would answer that He appointed this man (Peter) teacher, not of that throne, but of the whole world." (Chrysostom, In Joan. Hom. 1xxxviii. n. 1, tom. viii)

      St. Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople (758-828)

      "Without whom (the Romans presiding in the seventh Council) a doctrine brought forward in the Church could not, even though confirmed by canonical decrees and by ecclesiastical usuage, ever obtain full approval or currency. For it is they (the Popes of Rome) who have had assigned to them the rule in sacred things, and who have received into their hands the dignity of headship among the Apostles." (Nicephorus, Niceph. Cpl. pro. s. imag. c 25 [Mai N. Bibl. pp. ii. 30]).

      St. Cyril of Alexandria (c. 424)

      They (the Apostles) strove to learn through one, that preeminent one, Peter. (Cyril, Ib. 1. ix. p. 736).

      There is more, but you get the point. Dyer's personality speaks for itself. Dyer promotes Pontrello. Pontrello didn't do a written debate any more with Mr. Speray and even removed some content. My question was why? That was my point.

      I do not have any social media accounts nor do I want to create one to engage in a debate. If you want to believe in Dyer/Eastern Orthodoxy like so many do, then go ahead. I just think you are making a big mistake that will cost you your soul if you choose to. Please do some further research into traditional Catholicism and pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary to guide you. Best regards.

      Lee

      Delete
    23. Andrew,

      Most likely because the Armenian Orthodox (technically the Armenian Apostolic Church, if I'm reading this correctly) are part of the Oriental Orthodox Church, which is separate from the Eastern Orthodox Church.

      They are Miaphysites, who rejected the Council of Chalcedon and split from the Church thereafter; as such, the only Councils they recognize are Nicaea I, Constantinople I, and Ephesus.

      From what I've read, Dyer has no love lost for the Oriental Orthodox (which includes Copts, Armenians, Jacobites, Ethiopians, etc.) either. And yet funnily enough, like the majority of the Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox churches are ALSO part of the World Council of Churches. (Imagine that.)

      Sincerely,

      A Simple Man

      Delete
    24. Andrew,

      Catholic Encyclopedia, Eastern Churches: "Quite lately the Gregorian [i.e. monophysite] Armenians have begun to call themselves Orthodox. This has no meaning and only confuses the issue. Of course each Church thinks itself really Orthodox, and Catholic and Apostolic and Holy too. But one must keep technical names clear, or we shall always talk at cross purposes."

      Delete
  6. I have been trying to find the true traditional Catholic response to the covid vaccine. I follow traditionalist blogs, listen to sermons, read online newsletters, and I have yet to find what a traditional Catholic is to think about the covid vaccine. The only resource I have found comes from an SSPX web site, but I found the article very helpful. Either a response to this article or an article about what the true traditional Catholic response to the covid vaccine would be greatly appreciated. Here is the link to the SSPX article I found to be helpful: https://catholiccandle.org/2021/01/01/reject-the-covid-vaccines/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon5:53
      Have you seen this?
      https://novusordowatch.org/2020/12/the-morality-of-vaccinations/

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. I received my second Moderna vaccine today. I have heard that some vaccines have been made with material from aborted babies, but I don't know much more. We should not rely on the media or pharmaceutical companies to tell us the truth ...

      Delete
    3. It always blows my mind when I read that someone received the vaccine. What is wrong with you Simon? You got the experimental clot shot why?

      Delete
    4. Simon,
      They are very untrustworthy. One of the reasons I refuse the vaccination.

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    5. Introibo,
      I have had to visit 2 Drs this month for an ENT problem. Each time, I have been asked if I am Covid vaccinated. When I respond "no", I am lectured and treated like I am a leper for refusing the vaccine. I am fed up! I don't like to lie, but I am at the point of doing just that so I don't have to listen to the vaccine rehtoric and being treated poorly as a result of refusing the vaccine.
      JoAnn

      Delete
    6. Joann,
      I understand your (justified) frustration. Next time try saying this, "No, I'm not vaccinated, and I understand the issue. After much thought, I have decided against it for personal reasons. Many doctors have lectured me, but thankfully, you don't seem like the type who would lecture me over a carefully made decision--and for that I thank you."

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    7. Just today I went to get a medical check up to complete a medical report form for university and one of the first questions the doctor asked was whether or not I had been Covid vaccinated and I replied no and from then on he developed a more hostile attitude that gave off the impression that he thought of us (me and my father) as irresponsible idiots. From then on there was hardly communication that was intelligible. My dad handed him the papers with things that I needed to have checked and then, all of a sudden, (I wasn't prepared for this) he said I was missing two vaccines: Meningococcal and HPV.

      At the time, however, he was mumbling so I couldn't understand which vaccines I had to get; all I knew is that I had to get two shots (there were 3 that I had in mind but I didn't know which). I did a rough check of all the possible shots I'd receive and they weren't related to any dead babies in any way as far as I could tell so I reluctantly agreed to them. After the shots I found out they were the Meningococcal (one of them apparently there's several) and HPV (at the time I didn't even know what the HPV one was for because I would force myself to zone out in "health class" in school, but hurray I now have a free pass to fornication...). Moreover, the HPV wasn't even on the required vaccines list for my university...

      This was all in all a highly irritating, if not infuriating, experience because not only was it sprung on me in the moment, I didn't even know what I was going to receive. The doctor was hostile from nearly the first moment my father and I spoke to him and was constantly mumbling. Introibo, I like your response to the doctor, I'll most certainly use a variation of it in the future, if needed.

      Thanks,
      Dapouf

      Delete
    8. I am very leery of Thuc clergy, but thank you for the link to the Novus Ordo Watch article. I did not find it very helpful, however. I refuse the vaccine based on what I learned in the SSPX article I referenced (although I disagree with their "Recognize and Resist" position).

      Delete
    9. I have a suspicion that the ever-increasing pressure on people to receive, and have their children receive, whatever vaccinations are available is in large part due not to an actual concern for health, but to facilities and workplaces needing to indemnify themselves from possible exposure-to-harm suits resulting from whatever contagious disease is going around. Not being a lawyer I can't make a legal basis for that, it's only my opinion.
      It's now up to nearly 100 different shots that are on the required or highly recommended list, whereas in the "good ol' days", there were only about 3. Some are just okay but many have been found to be ineffective or harmful.
      And so much else plays into this issue, like the upside for the drug and insurance companies.
      Saying all that, I also believe much of the fallout can be put on folks who aren't compelled in any way by the outside to take these things, but because to one degree or another, they fear illness, death and loss of human respect so much that science and medicine have become their savior, and they will follow it's dictates even when gut instinct and eyes and ears say not to.
      We keep accepting the magic potions for the sake of "normal" life, but they have made a miserable return to is in terms of health, safety and freedom.


      Jannie

      Delete
    10. Jannie,
      Very true. I recently had my yearly cardiovascular work-up (I wasn't able to have one last year due to COVID. I stay on top of my health). I have an echocardiogram before and after taking a stress test. My cardiologist asked me if I was vaccinated. I told him I wasn't, I knew all about the vaxx, and I wasn't going to take it.

      He told me that he and everyone in his large medical office were fully vaxxed. I said, "That's nice." After my first echocardiogram, he accompanied me into the room with the treadmill hooked up to a couple of computers to do the running part. I removed my mask as I climbed on and he said, "You're not vaccinated, keep the mask on." I said, "You mean I have to RUN wearing a mask?" "Yep. Just do your best. He only does stress tests on Wednesdays, and he only admits one patient at a time so it was just myself, the doctor, his nurse and five staff members.

      I put the mask on and asked him, "The purpose of the vax is to ensure you don't get COVID right?" "Yes." "Your whole office is fully vaxed?" "I just told you that." "And if you don't have COVID because you have the vax, then you can't infect anyone." "Now, you're getting it!"

      So tell me doc, if none of you can give or get COVID and no one else if here, why do I need to wear a mask? If I have COVID you can't get it, and if I don't have it, no one here can infect me."

      His face got red with anger. "Either step on and do this with the mask or go home!" I completed the run with my mask on. I was breathing m=heavily because of it. As I did the second echocardiogram, he finished by saying, "If you had the vax, you wouldn't have had such a hard time breathing. You did well on your stress test even so."

      As I got my shirt on, I said, "If you had been logical, ethical and reasonable instead of following a political agenda, you wouldn't have just lost a patient. I passed my test, you failed yours."

      Time to get a new cardiologist.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    11. Introibo,
      Do you think the Covid vaccine is going to eventually be mandated? Seems to me like it is headed that way.
      Thanks.
      JoAnn

      Delete
    12. Joann,
      There is certainly a huge push for such. Personally, I believe any LAW (or Executive Order) mandating the COVID vaccine would be immediately challenged in court and with the current composition of the Supreme Court, the challenge would be successful and the mandate struck down.

      The push will come, I believe, from two main sources:
      peer pressure/disinformation to persuade people to get vaccinated. Private sector companies mandating it; not the government. They would be much more likely to survive a court challenge.

      I will join those who refuse the vax.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    13. The scare tactics being utilized to try to influence people to get the vaccine is over the top in my opinion. I have tried to explain to Drs that have pushed me to get the vaccine that I lived with Covid as my husband had a bad case of it and never caught it from him. The Drs refuse to listen or accept my reasoning for not taking it. Most physicians think they are God and when they speak the patient had better jump and do as they say!! From my experience with some God like Drs, I foresee in the not too distant future if a person is not vaccinated they will be refused medical treatment. I had an ENT Dr refuse to treat me for a sinus infection 2 yrs ago because I smoke cigarettes!! I thought we were supposed to be living in a free Country??!!
      JoAnn

      Delete
    14. Joann,
      Good point about the doctors. See my story about my cardiologist above. Since I'm acquainted with many ethical doctors, I don't tend to think that way, but you're right.

      A free country? "For how much longer?" is the real question.

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  7. "Vatican II sect schools are spiritual suicide; they do the same (or worse) than public schools in the name of 'Catholicism.'"

    I could not agree more, Introibo. I can personally attest to this fact, having just recently graduated from high school. My school was neutral and, thankfully in Puerto Rico, older folk (45+) are generally more "traditional" in that they still retain some Catholic spirituality and don't quite like all the mainstream nonsense being spewed in the US, so I generally didn't have to listen to heresy or sin being promoted (keyword: generally. This did not apply for some of the newer, feminist teachers that were brought in during my last years) since most of my teachers were older. It is very saddening, but some of the most disgusting, misguided, and atheistic people I know are from "Catholic" (Vat II) schools. Interestingly, the Vatican II sect schools resulted in atheists while the neutral schools (including mine) while definitely had their share of atheists, resulted in many indifferentists. I cannot imagine the things they teach in those "Catholic" schools on the basis of religion, however, I was most certainly not spared anguish on many occasions in my school either.

    Given that these are schools in Puerto Rico, I can't imagine how much worse it can get in the US. Moreover, on the topic of things to expect from non-Catholic, neutral, and mixed schools, something I also find (and can personally attest to for my school) that is promoted more heavily than sodomy or other similar perversities is onanism, from teachers and students alike, about how it's healthy, stress-relieving, and all that garbage. This is something that, in my opinion, is equally dangerous as, if not more, than the other perversities given that it's a temptation that plagues children (and adults I suppose) far more today given all of the exposure to it. If I could do it again, and my parents were Traditional Catholics, I'd definitely prefer to be home-schooled.

    Sincerely,
    Dapouf

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dapouf,
      I have a family member who teaches at a Novus Ordo School and he tells me that the School teaches about every religion except Catholicism.
      JoAnn

      Delete
    2. Dapouf,
      Thank you for sharing your testimony, and thank God he preserved you from all that degeneracy! Interesting how they are pushing onanistic practices in Puerto Rico.My high school experience is written about here:

      https://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2020/11/dead-serious.html

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    3. Joann,
      That's true of almost ALL of them these days!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    4. Introibo,

      Thankfully, by the grace of God, I've had my older brother to guide me through all the rubbish and instill in me the true Catholic Faith!

      Delete
    5. JoAnn,

      It's astonishing how bad schools can get. In hindsight, I may have actually been painting things in a better light than they actually were. In my school, if memory serves correct, the most I had to learn about other religions was in my ninth grade world history class where we briefly touched upon the founders of Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, and Catholicism and some basic teachings within those religions. However, it didn't really go further than that; it was all discussed during one day and never touched again I believe. When Catholicism did come up, however, it was always in a negative light, be it in regards to different periods of Church history, portions of the Bible being sexist, etc. (topics like these weren't part of the curriculum but randomly brought up by some teachers). The most trialing classes for me were my eleventh grade English and Chemistry classes. My English teacher was new (hired a year prior) and my Chemistry teacher was a staunchly atheistic, gay man (for all I know, an active sodomite). Now Chemistry class I remember being occasionally dreadful when the atheistic narrative was pushed through different means including jokes on religion. The English class however, I can never forget. From day one I was never able to get along with that disingenuous, confused woman. At one point in the year we were made to read John Milton's "A Paradise Lost", which at the time I didn't know was on the Index of Forbidden Books. This was one of the few times I had to listen to teachers go on about heretical or sinful/disgusting ideas/topics. Before we read the epic poem and during the read, she would have us learn a little about Adam and Eve and other things related to the Faith, but there was one day in particular that we were reading something from St. Augustine of Hippo and she had been twisting so many things that he had written that I, knowing that what she was saying was scandalizing and giving misconceptions to my classmates, finally snapped. I don't remember what I told her (I didn't insult her character or anything) or how I corrected her but I remember getting very hot (body temperature) and everyone told me after that my face had gotten beet red, something that's never happened to me before or since.

      In essence, these memories (which I recalled after reading your reply) led me to think that I may have painted things even better than they were. I found this worthy of note because that means that Vatican II sect schools are just that much worse. To give an even better idea of how bad these "Catholic" schools can get, one of my cousins went to one of the most prestigious schools ("Catholic") in PR. Before I realized how bad these schools could be, I had an argument with him over the inquisition and crusades about two years ago (you can imagine how painful that must've been) and we just spiraled into different topics. Of the things I learned that pain me to even type right now:

      1. He doesn't believe that the Bible is infallible because "there are many things from the Old Testament that contradict things in the New Testament".
      2. He doesn't believe in Hell and he believes in the naturalistic version of making Heaven here on Earth through good works, blah blah blah (rip beatific vision).
      3. A bunch of other usual stuff you'd expect from NOites such as how the medieval Church was horrible, indifferentism, doctrines change with the times, etc.

      While he didn't come out atheist, I was incredibly dumbfounded (honestly I still am) to find out he believed 1. and 2. Even now I simply can't understand how a school that claims to be Catholic could be so much of a joke as to yield a student like him, worst part being: he was among the best that the school produced by a good margin.

      Delete
  8. Introibo,

    Unrelated to the above, why do others appear to believe Fr. DePauw wasn't a sedevacantist? I recall pointing out the Wikipedia article on him to you a while back, but now even N.O.W. has made this assertion:

    https://twitter.com/NovusOrdoWatch/status/1413935442861477889


    Could you offer some clarity as to why this seems to be the impression that other people have (especially in light of your personal experience with the man)?

    Sincerely,

    A Simple Man

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A Simple Man,
      I'm really burning the midnight oil on my current case, but I wanted to reply to your query right away! Father DePauw was--like most people at the time--very confused and disheartened. He raised the flag of resistance in 1964, while the Robber Council was still going on!

      Having such loyalty to the papacy, he did not want to believe there was no pope. He honestly believed the Church would "correct Herself" (so to speak) with a reasonable time. Montini actually gave him the first "Indult" to use the 1958 Missal and sacraments (this he did with the help of Card. Ottaviani) and itallowed him to bring many in from the Vatican II sect.

      In 1999, after the signing of the Joint Declaration on Justification between the Lutherans and Vatican II sect, he never used the name of Wojtyla in the Canon and refused to call him "pope"--he was simply "John Paul" or "the man in white at the Vatican"!

      When I told him I had accepted sedevacantism, he looked at me and smiled, refusing to discuss it but never saying I was wrong. I think he did not want to lose very good people in the Chapel who would have been scandalized, nor did he want to risk not getting people in because "he rejects the pope." He died 5 and a half years later, and was getting more bold in his attacks on Wojtyla. Had he lived longer, he may have gone public.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. Introibo, did you come to sedevacantism by yourself, or did someone else convert you?

      Delete
    3. @anon6:33
      I came to the conclusion on my own from my studies. The same theology manuals and other theological writings given me by Fr. DePauw led me to that inescapable conclusion. (That's why I knew he had accepted it by 1999 as well). I paid lip service to Wojtyla as "pope" from 1981-1995. In 1996 I suspended judgement. I would not call him pope nor would I openly embrace sedevacantism. In 1999, with the signing of the Joint Declaration of Justification between the Vatican II sect and the Lutherans, I really hit me that no pope could do this heinous act. That is when Fr. DePauw stopped calling JPII "pope" and he never used his name in the Canon. I was a professed sedevacantist as a result of 18 years of study beginning November 1, 1999--exactly 18 years after joining the Catholic Traditionalist Movement and rejecting the V2 sect. I went from Lip service to outright denunciation of the papal pretenders after Pope Pius XII.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  9. Please pray for the repose of the Soul of
    Sister Raymunda Orth.
    She received her final vows in 1947.
    God bless -Andrew

    ReplyDelete
  10. Unrelated to the current topic, but Francis has finally revoked Summorum Pontificum, as has long been rumored: https://novusordowatch.org/2021/07/francis-kills-summorum-pontificum/

    I wonder if this will finally be the 'Crossing the Rubicon' moment for SSPX/FSSP/ICKSP attendees when it comes to sedevacantism?

    Sincerely,

    A Simple Man

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    Replies
    1. A Simple Man,
      One can only hope! The next year should be both interesting and telling.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    2. The party is over. But we should still pray. Many are guilty of crass ignorance and will rather despair and renounce Catholicism than be sedevacantists.

      Also, there are two other groups that will bloom: the SSPX and the Resignationists.

      Delete
    3. One thing Bergoglio believes in that I happen to agree with is spankings. He just let those rabbit breeding, rigid thinking, Novus Ordo Mass hating TLMers know whose daddy they belong to. This should separate the men from the boys, the faithful from the faithless, and the proud from the humble. If this isn't a wake up call for these people, I don't know what else it could possible be. He's basically saying through his decree that he doesn't want them in his Vatican II Church.

      I hope they come to understand that the Vatican II Church is not the Catholic Church of all ages which Christ promised he would be with even unto the consummation of the world.

      Lee

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    4. Lee,
      One would hope people wake up. As anon9:53 points out SSPX and Resignationists will definitely benefit; perhaps more than Traditionalists properly so-called. The one issue I believe would work best is if Bergoglio ever taught abortion is not murder and permissible in some cases.

      ---Introibo

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    5. It seems obvious that this revocation of SP was purposely designed by the NO sect to be a slap to the faces of it's "traditional-minded" - a sly method of bringing them more firmly into it's false opposite - the "Bennyvacantist" camp.
      Similarly, those looking to escape the troubles of the secular crackdowns on human rights, unless they are wise, will be driven straight into the camp of the AC, who will briefly appear to be the answer to the woes of the world.

      This is all a trap and the work of the Enemy.

      Jannie

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    6. There are Sedevacantists who attend the SSPX because there are no chapels in their city.
      -Andrew

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    7. Does Francis, like John Paul II, want trads integated into his One World Church, or does he think they should be chopped off his One World Church?

      With Traditionis Custodes, SSPX will enlarge. What will he do with them, cut them off or integrate them?

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    8. @anon9:32
      I think Bergoglio wants everyone on HIS own terms. He'll wait to see what the SSPX does in response. Do they want to lose his "ordinary jurisdiction"? Or will they fold, to one degree or another? It's SSPX's turn to move in this ever evolving Modernist chess game.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    9. SSPX cannot continue this fence riding forever.
      Fake "Bishop" Huonder "offering" Mass at their German seminary and Novus Ordo "jurisdiction" to me says more than their mealy mouth response to Deacon Bergoglio's "motu proprio."
      -Andrew

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  11. I went to a v2 high school about 15 years ago and everything you wrote they taught, and much worse.

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    Replies
    1. Ryan,
      Thank you the sad confirmation of the evil in V2 schools!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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  12. Introibo, since you expressed graver doubts about the new rite of baptism, will you attend the Mass of priests baptized in the new rite? Aren't there's lots of sedevacantist priests baptized in the new rite?

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    Replies
    1. @anon12:03
      I don't know of ANY priests baptized in the new Rite. Almost ALL SSPV priests, for example, were either (a) baptized pre-1969 when the New Rite came out, or (b) were "cradle Traditionalists" whose parents had them baptized by Traditionalist priests.

      Any candidate for the priesthood who was not baptized in the Traditional Rite is conditionally baptized.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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  13. Like Simon above, I was also in elementary school in the 1980's, but a "Catholic" school in Toronto. Turns out that everything I learned about the True Faith came afterwards, from other sources.

    It was all bland insipid Vatican "II" pretend-catholic fluff.

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  14. What are your views on Catholic Restoration and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Orthodox Church?

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