- The existence and attributes of God
- The truth of the One True Church established by Christ for the salvation of all
- The truth of a particular dogma or doctrine of the Church
- The truth of Catholic moral teaching
- The truth of the sedevacantist position as the only Catholic solution to what has happened since Vatican II
The Teaching of the Church on Biblical Interpretation Regarding Genesis
When it comes to "the plain meaning" of Scripture, those untrained in Catholic exegesis fall into serious errors. According to the eminent theologian Van Noort:
Furthermore, even in those truths which the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium unmistakably inculcates, there is sometimes room for questioning whether all the elements of that teaching are meant to be inculcated with equal force. For example, the following doctrines have always been unmistakably proposed by the Ordinary Magisterium: that God created our first parents by forming their bodies from the slime of the Earth and from the rib of the man; that Adam sinned in tasting the forbidden fruit at the urging of the serpent; that God in punishment for mankind's sins caused a deluge over the entire Earth; that Christ will come one day as the Judge upon the clouds of Heaven, etc.
Do you think that the definitive intention of the Magisterium bears with equal force upon the mode of the bodily formation and on the very fact of creation? With equal force upon upon the external description of the sin of our first parents and upon the sin itself? With equal force upon the universality of the flood and upon the manifestation of Divine Justice? With equal force upon the circumstances of the heavenly spectacle and upon the actual return of the Judge? Even upon a priori grounds an affirmative answer would have little probability to it, seeing that the circumstances described contribute either nothing at all or very little to religion. Actually, if one checks history, he will find at least a number of the circumstances enumerated have been called into doubt by one or another of the Fathers of the Church, or by excellent theologians, without their teaching ever being considered in the slightest heretical...
Actually the immense flowering of Catholic biblical research during the past fifty years has done much to eliminate unnecessary bewilderment on the part of the ordinary Bible reader trying to reconcile his own reading of the "obvious" meaning of Scripture with the findings of modern science. This bewilderment has been caused by an almost total ignorance of what is meant by "scriptural inerrancy," "inspiration," and "revelation."
It has been further nurtured by a failure to enter sympathetically into the mentality of the ancient Semitic world, a lack of knowledge of ancient languages and history, a total unawareness of literary genres, and a lack of theological insight into what in the Bible pertains to "matters of faith and morals" and what is merely "accidentally inspired."
Such readers, lacking both biblical and theological training, when coming across ancient cosmological viewpoints, unconsciously reflected by the sacred writers, have taken such viewpoints to be revelation by God on matters of science. Hence, a whole rash of unnecessary problems, concordism and the like. (See Dogmatic Theology, 3:223-225 [1960 English edition]; Emphasis in bold and italics from the original text--bold, italicized, and underlined is mine. N.B. Theologian Van Noort died in 1946. His original Latin edition was published with full ecclesiastical approbation prior to his death).
In reference to true biblical scholars, Pope Pius XII condemns those who would oppose them simply because they propose a new solution to a difficulty:
Let all other sons of the Church bear in mind that the efforts of these resolute laborers in the vineyard of the Lord should be judged not only with equity and justice, but also with the greatest charity; all, moreover, should abhor that intemperate zeal which imagines that whatever is new should for that very reason be opposed or suspected. (See Divino Afflante Spiritu [1943]; Emphasis mine).
Several Principles of Interpretation
The Pontifical Biblical Commission in 1909, affirmed that Genesis teaches the following facts about creation which are to be accepted by all Catholics. The decree was promulgated by Pope St. Pius X.
...the creation of all things which was accomplished by God at the beginning of time; the special creation of man; the formation of the first woman from man; the unity of the human race; the original happiness of our first parents in a state of justice, integrity, and immortality; the divine command laid upon man to prove his obedience; the transgression of that divine command at the instigation of the devil under the form of a serpent; the fall of our first parents from their primitive state of innocence; and the promise of a future Redeemer. (See Acta Apostolis Sedis, 1 [1909 Pontifical Biblical Commission], pages 567-69).
Day of Rest (Genesis 2:3): Moses employed a period of a week for the Creation to impress upon the Jews the fact that the seventh day of the week was holy and a day of rest. Catholic exegetes [interpreters] are unanimous in rejecting the old theory that God accomplished everything in the space of six twenty-four hour periods. (See theologian Cevetello, Getting to Know the Bible, [1957], pg. 64).
On June 30, 1909, the Pontifical Biblical Commission (as above) issued a decree answering eight (8) questions about the Book of Genesis. The decree was approved by His Holiness, Pope St. Pius X, Foe of Modernism. The answers to the first three questions upholds the overall historical character of the first three chapters of Genesis, however the last two questions are instructive as to the mind of the Church in Biblical exegesis ("interpretation").
Question # 7: "Whether, since it was not the intention of the sacred author, when writing the first chapter of Genesis, to teach us in a scientific manner the innermost nature of visible things, and to present the complete order of creation but rather to furnish his people with a popular account, such as the common parlance of that age allowed, one, namely, adopted to the senses and to man's intelligence, we are strictly and always bound, when interpreting these chapters to seek for scientific exactitude of expression?" Answer: In the negative.
Question # 8: "Whether the word yom ('day'), which is used in the first chapter of Genesis to describe and distinguish the six days, may be taken in its strict sense as the natural day, or in a less strict sense as signifying a certain space of time; and whether free discussion of this question is permitted to interpreters?" Answer: In the affirmative.
We see that in the response to question # 7, we are not bound to treat Genesis as some sort of science textbook. Question # 8 clearly shows that we are not bound to believe in six literal days of 24 hours each in the creation account as theologian Cevetello notes. God created the universe in six yom, or time periods, the exact duration of which may be much more than 24 hours. Nor is it necessary to believe in a 6,000 year old Earth. Modern science and Genesis do not contradict each other.
Formation of Eve (Genesis 2:21-22): According to a decree of the [Pontifical] Biblical Commission, the doctrine of the formation of the first Woman from Man must be maintained. However, the exact way in which it took place remains a mystery about which you are able to say nothing; for only that One knows who was responsible for Creation. (See Cevetello, Ibid, pgs. 65-66).
From the above we can know the Church teaches us as truth:
- the Creation of the world ex nihil (out of nothing) by God at the beginning of space-time
- the special creation of the First Man
- the special creation of the First Woman from the First Man
- the souls of human beings are created immediately ex nihil by God
- the entire human race descends from a single man and a single woman; our First Parents
- our First Parents were in a state of Original Justice and by disobedience brought us Original Sin
- Original Sin is passed down by being a descendant of the First Man (Adam)
- Original Sin came about at the instigation of Satan
- God promised to send a Redeemer Who is the Lord Jesus Christ
Did Pope Pius XII Make a Mistake in Allowing Study on the Possible Evolution of the Human Body of Adam?
Those who think the idea that the body of Adam was formed from pre-existing living matter and developed to receive a soul is heretical, denounce Pope Pius XII for allowing it to be studied, as he wrote in his encyclical Humani Generis of 1950. They usually advance three lines of argumentation:
1. His Holiness was wrong to allow the study of a subject that was settled, much like Montini (Paul VI) was wrong to allow study on the morality of artificial contraception; The Church Fathers were unanimous against the idea of evolution of the body.
2. It was only permitting study, and in no way gives any real credence to the idea of the evolution of the body, which is from godless Darwinian scientists.
3. The idea of evolution of the first human body is of recent development under the influence of Modernism. It would necessitate death existing before the Fall of Adam which is absurd.
On The Contrary:
Response to #1: The subject was NOT settled, the Church never having pronounced on the subject, and there was vigorous debate between theologians. Certain "conservative" members of the Vatican II sect, will twist the decisions on the Pontifical Biblical Commission to make it fit their Protestant interpretation of every word of Genesis being literal.
Some Traditionalists claim none of the Fathers held that the universe is ancient, so that opinion is not permissible. (Tell that to Pope St. Pius X!). The Pontifical Biblical Commission, in question six of its decision of 1909, says that we should follow the example of the Fathers in making allegorical and prophetical interpretations, after having determined the literal and historical sense. This means that it is perfectly acceptable to make allegorical interpretations, not that we have to follow the Fathers in all of their interpretations. The Commission declared:
...in interpreting those passages of these chapters [of Genesis] that the Fathers and Doctors have interpreted in divers ways without leaving anything definite or certain, it is permitted, subject to the judgment of the Church and the analogy of faith, to follow and defend that opinion which each one has prudently found correct.
There is Magisterial authority that the Fathers do not present a doctrinally-binding, unanimous consensus on the first chapters of Genesis. Some Traditionalists claim a binding consensus of the Fathers on a plethora of biblical teachings. Yet, in his encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu, Pope Pius XII taught:
...there are but few texts whose sense has been defined by the authority of the Church, nor are those more numerous about which the teaching of the Holy Fathers is unanimous. There remain therefore many things, and of the greatest importance, in the discussion and exposition of which the skill and genius of Catholic commentators may and ought to be freely exercised, so that each may contribute his part to the advantage of all, to the continued progress of the sacred doctrine and to the defense and honor of the Church. (para. #47; Emphasis mine).
Pope Pius XII also teaches that the first chapters of Genesis are not among those "few texts" settled by the Fathers of the Church:
Moreover we may rightly and deservedly hope that our time also can contribute something towards the deeper and more accurate interpretation of Sacred Scripture. For not a few things, especially in matters pertaining to history, were scarcely at all or not fully explained by the commentators of past ages, since they lacked almost all the information which was needed for their clearer exposition. How difficult for the Fathers themselves, and indeed well nigh unintelligible, were certain passages is shown, among other things, by the oft-repeated efforts of many of them to explain the first chapters of Genesis;...(Ibid, para. #31; Emphasis mine).
Therefore, to analogize the study of the development of the first human body to Montini's allowing study on the subject of birth control is fallacious because birth control is settled, but not the mode of the production of Adam's body.
Response to #2:
We must first distinguish and reject Darwinian evolution ("DE"). DE assumes as its dogma that change must be unguided and without purpose. It rules out a priori the existence of God. It also excludes in principle the idea of a sudden origin of a new kind of living thing through non-living material (slime of the Earth), or through multiple simultaneous mutation, or through large-scale reorganizations of cells, or any other event that could take place only through the presence of a Designer/Creator God. God can choose to work gradually or instantaneously, it is up to Him. Romans 11:34 reminds us: "For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been His counselor?" DE is to be rejected. That is godless, and not the idea that God permitted and guided the development of the first human body.
The study was permitted because it is an open question. There is no definitive teaching. Pope Pius XII does not endorse the development of the human body, butt neither does he censure it or disapprove of it in any way. Hence, the study of the question.
Response to #3:
The idea of the development of the human body is by no means recent, as the teachings of the theologians will demonstrate. Does the Church forbid the idea that death of animals and plants only happened after the Fall? No. The argument against bodily development is that there would be death involved with plants and brutes prior to Original Sin. Original Sin brought human death, conceded; that it brought death of plants and animals; denied.
Going back as far as 1847, a Protestant geologist, Edward Hitchcock, wisely saw nothing wrong with positing non-human death before Adam and Eve. He wrote:
Not only geology,but zoology and comparative anatomy, teach us that death among the inferior animals did not result from the Fall of Man, but from the original constitution given them by their Creator. One large class of animals, the carnivores, have organs expressly intended for destroying other classes for food. [Even herbivores] must have destroyed a multitude of insects, of which several species inhabit almost every species of plant, [not to mention the destruction of] millions of animalcula [microscopic organisms], which abound in many of the fluids which animals drink, and even in the air which they breathe.
In short, death could not be excluded from the world, without an entire change in the constitution and course of nature; and such a change we have no reason to suppose, from the Mosaic [Genesis] account, took place when man fell. (See Hitchcock, Elementary Geology, 8th edition [1847], p. 299ff).
What Pope Pius XII actually taught:
...the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter -- for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However, this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church…
When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own. (See Humani Generis para. #36 & 37; Emphasis mine).
The pope did not rule out the creation of the body through evolution and he upheld the necessity of the belief in the immediate creation of the soul by God, as well as the necessary rejection of polygenism.
The Teaching of the Church
The approved theologians are clear that the opinion of a human body that developed and was not created immediately can be (not must be) held:
Theologian Sagues:
But whether with regard to his [Adam] body he is in some way from a brute (but not without the special intervention of God) is an open question, which has not yet been clearly and certainly explained by the investigations of natural science, and which will have to be solved with certainty perhaps in the future with the help of faith and guided by revelation. (See Sacrae Theologiae Summa IIB, [1955], pg.236; Emphasis in original).
Theologian Hunter (d. 1896):
Others think it possible that close study of the visible world, which we have called a divinely composed commentary upon the Written Word may possibly give good ground for believing that the apparent meaning of the Mosaic narrative is not the true meaning, and that the body of the first Man was prepared by the operation of natural causes, without any extraordinary action of God. These therefore suspend their judgement, and await further light upon the subject, whether it come to them by a pronouncement of the Church, or by the progress of natural science. (See Outlines of Dogmatic Theology, [1895], pg. 420; Emphasis mine).
According to theologian Tanquerey (d.1932):
It is de fide that our first parents in regard to body and in regard to soul were created by God: it is certain that their souls were created immediately by God; the opinion, once common, which asserts that even man’s body was formed immediately by God has now fallen into controversy…As long as the spiritual origin of the human soul is correctly preserved, the differences of body between man and ape do not oppose the origin of the human body from animality…
Theologian Ott says similarly:
The soul of the first man was created immediately by God out of nothing. As regards the body, its immediate formation from inorganic stuff by God cannot be maintained with certainty. Fundamentally, the possibility exists that God breathed the spiritual soul into an organic stuff, that is, into an originally animal body…
The Encyclical Humani Generis of Pius XII (1950) lays down that the question of the origin of the human body is open to free research by natural scientists and theologians…
Against… the view of certain modern scientists, according to which the various races are derived from several separated stems (polygenism), the Church teaches that the first human beings, Adam and Eve, are the progenitors of the whole human race (monogenism). The teaching of the unity of the human race is not, indeed, a dogma, but it is a necessary pre-supposition of the dogma of Original Sin and Redemption (See Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, [1955], pgs. 94-96; Emphasis mine).

Hello, my Catholic friends,
ReplyDeleteGreetings from a French sedevacantist.
I would like your opinion, please. Here in France, we believe that men who have been supposedly ordained as priests or bishops since 1969 are, in reality, neither priests nor bishops. This is because around 1969, Vatican II changed the rites of ordination to replace them with its own. A Belgian sedevacantist priest, who passed away in 2012—the same year Paul Schoonbroodt created two websites, “Rore Sanctifica” and “Virgo Maria”—demonstrated that these rites were invalid.
Therefore, Jorge Mario Bergoglio and others were not actually priests at all, while Joseph Ratzinger was a priest, etc.
What is your opinion on this matter?
I ask for your prayers for my mother, Marie-Agnès Hugot, who has been battling cancer since December–January 2025-2026, and for me, Vianney.
Thank you in advance, Catholic friends ☺️
Hello Vianney H., and to answer you :
DeleteIntroibo's blog post of Sept. 22, 2025 (= "Holy Orders and Sedevacantism") is dedicated to your area of concern. In the "blog archive" on the right margin, click on "2025" and then click on "September". Also, I was looking at the Rore Sanctifica site online, in 2006. I think the start year for that blog was 2006. Since then, it has been the best online archive of information about this subject, but recently
https://www.wmreview.org/p/valid-sacraments
has become an even better archive of information about this subject, than Rore Sanctifica. In my opinion, the wmreview.org , in general, has become one of the top ten best Anti-V2.org websites, in the world.
With my prayers for you and your mother.
Vianney H France,
DeleteI will pray for your dear mother and I ask all my readers to do the same. I agree that the Pauline Rite of ordination to the priesthood and consecration to the episcopacy are invalid. The start date was June 18, 1968.
I thank anon12:00 for doing an excellent job of answering your query!
God Bless,
---Introibo
I can't wait to read this. Loved your last two! It seems that Pope Pius XII name keeps coming up regarding controversial topics.
ReplyDeleteDifficult time to be pope.
May God bless you and Our Lady keep you,
John Gregory
John,
DeleteThank you my friend! in my opinion, Pope Pius XII was one of the holiest and greatest supreme pontiffs in Church history.
God Bless,
---Introibo
In Catholic theology and biblical exegesis, the account of the world's creation in six days is understood primarily as a profound theological narrative rather than a strict scientific treatise. When approaching the Book of Genesis, the Pontifical Biblical Commission explicitly states that while the foundational historical facts of the Christian religion must be maintained, the term "day" in the creation account may be understood either in its proper sense as a natural day of twenty-four hours or in an improper sense as a certain period of time. Consequently, the Commission grants Catholic exegetes the liberty to dispute this question and to explore various interpretations.
ReplyDeleteHistorically, the Fathers of the Church recognized the difficulties of a strictly literal interpretation. St. Augustine, for example, argued in his commentary *De Genesi ad Litteram* that God actually created all things simultaneously. St. Augustine interpreted the six days not as a chronological sequence of solar days, but as a logical succession representing the order in which the works of creation were manifested to the angelic intellects.
As the natural sciences progressed, Catholic scholars readily harmonized the immense antiquity of the earth with the Genesis narrative. The *Catholic Encyclopedia* observes that the strictly literal interpretation of the six days has been largely abandoned by theologians, leaving the faithful perfectly free to follow the teachings of science regarding the millions of years required for the geological and astronomical formation of the universe. Commentators have proposed various frameworks to reconcile the two, such as the Concordist theory, which identifies the six days with vast geological epochs, or the Idealist and Vision theories, which suggest the framework of six days was a logical arrangement or a prophetic vision granted to Adam to inculcate the religious duty of observing the Sabbath. Because the sacred writer intended to give popular instruction adapted to the intelligence of early peoples rather than scientific exactitude, there is no contradiction between the Catholic faith and the scientific conclusion that the earth developed over millions of years.
@anon10:29
DeleteThank you for an excellent and well-informed comment.
God Bless,
---Introibo
ReplyDeleteRegarding the creation of the first man, the Church steadfastly defends the special creation of humanity and the immediate creation of the human soul by God. The Book of Genesis declares that the Lord God formed man from the slime of the earth and breathed into his face the breath of life. Early Church Fathers, such as St. Gregory of Nyssa and St. John Damascene, emphasized the dignity of this origin, teaching that God formed man's body directly from the dust of the earth, thereby distinguishing humanity's creation from that of irrational beasts. The Biblical Commission insists that the historical reality of man's special creation remains a foundational truth that cannot be relegated to mere myth or fable.
Nevertheless, modern Catholic theology permits cautious inquiry into the precise physical manner in which man's material form was prepared. In addressing the biological theory of evolution, Pope Pius XII instructs in his encyclical teaching that the Church does not forbid scientific research and discussion concerning the evolutionary origin of the human body from pre-existent and living matter. The Catholic faith does not strictly require the belief that God fashioned human flesh from inanimate dirt in a literal, physical sense, provided that scholars weigh the evidence carefully and submit to the Church's ultimate judgment.
However, this freedom of evolutionary inquiry is strictly limited to the material body. Pope Pius XII and the *Catholic Encyclopedia* both note that the Catholic faith absolutely obliges the faithful to hold that the human soul is a spiritual substance immediately created by God out of nothing. The soul cannot emerge through a natural evolutionary process from brute matter or an animal life-principle. Therefore, while a Catholic might legitimately entertain the scientific hypothesis that the "dust of the earth" from which Adam's body was fashioned was matter that had undergone prior evolutionary development, it remains a matter of strict dogma that his immortal soul was infused by a direct and immediate creative act of God.
@anon10:29
DeleteThank you for another excellent and well-informed comment.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Is Bigfoot a creature that we don't know much about or a demon?
ReplyDeletePaul
DeleteThis is a serious question? Ok. I personally don't believe in Bigfoot. Could an advanced primate have escaped detection for a very long time? Yes, it is possible. Some large mammals were discovered as recently as 1992!! However, I have not seen evidence that convinces me.
I will share an interesting experience I had earlier this year. A friend of mine from college works for a major network here in NYC. He invited me to meet Josh Gates, the explorer who is known for his shows "Expedition Unknown" (investigating archeological finds), "Destination Truth" (investigates cryptids--like Bigfoot) and "Ghost Hunters" (investigating the paranormal).
He had a business dealing with Mr. Gates and thought I would find him fascinating. I went to have lunch at the studio with them. I promised my friend to keep an open mind. Mr. Gates was affable, intelligent, and articulate. He graduated in 1999 from Tufts University with a double major in archeology and drama. (He wound up using both majors!)
He seemed sincere and did not strike me as a conspiracy nut or a weirdo. Mr. Gates is a tall, powerfully built man, who turns 49 years old this year.
I asked him about Bigfoot. He said there wasn't enough evidence but he kept an open mind because of the Orang Pendek. It is a small mammal-like creature said to inhabit Indonesia. It is their version of Bigfoot. He said there are so many reports that he finds credible (he was there looking for evidence of it) he believes it exists.
I had to ask him as a "ghost hunter" if he believed in demons. He didn't answer. He looked at me and said to my friend, "Can I show him some footage?" My friend said yes, and we went to a room with close circuit screens that could play film footage. After a few minutes, he told me that in 2009 he visited the Hoia Baciu forest in Romania.
This forest was named after a man who was a shepherd. Legend says he (along with his flock of 200 sheep) went into the forest and neither he nor any of his sheep were ever found. They simply disappeared. There was a famous UFO sighting there in 1968. Many people have reported strange happenings.
Then the film. He was filming himself with his crew preparing to spend the night in that forest to see what they might find out. He was heard screaming and his voice got distant. Gates told me he felt something grab his leg and pull him. The crew went after him and found him unconscious 300 yards into the forest from where he had camped. There were strange claw marks on his leg which he still carries.
I asked him what he thought about it. He suppressed an involuntary shudder. He said, "Enough of this." We went back, finished our lunch and he shook my hand goodbye.
If true, a demonic encounter for sure.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Thank you Introibo. I watch Base Camp Chris. It seems there are big foots. But when they grin I'm convinced they are demons. Even if medium toe grinned at me I would be scared. Thank you for the interesting response and the enlightening article.
DeletePaul
When monkeys grin, it's a sign that they are angry.
DeletePaul,
DeleteThere are many false wonders that demons can cause to lead men astray. Bigfoot could certainly be one of them. I have always believed that UFO’s/aliens are either a false wonder created by the demons to lead men astray, a government/military phenomenon from a naturalistic standpoint that lead men stray, or perhaps a combination of both at different times. I personally side with St. Thomas Aquinas that we are the only intelligent life in the universe, although it is certainly possible that intelligent life could exist. Demons do cause false wonders to lead men astray in the hopes that the human wayfarer will join them in Hell. But where this starts and where it stops is hard to decipher.
One of my biggest problem with UFO’s/aliens is why is it almost always some farmer in some rural area where a UFO appears? If these intelligent forms of life are on Earth, why are they always appearing to the farmer in a rural farm area or under wraps at places like Area 51, where the government/military has such high security levels, where almost no one has access to these sites? Why don’t these aliens land their spacecrafts in Yankee Stadium in the middle of New York City, where they come out and are seen, touched, and interacted with by thousands of people? What are they shy or something? If something like that happened, that right there would settle this question immediately and this topic would be case closed and no longer shrouded in mystery.
In saying this, Bigfoot could certainly exist. I put Bigfoot in the same category as the Loch Ness Monster, the Yeti (aka Abominable Snowman), the Kraken, the Chupacabras, the Mothman, and the Megalodon. It is entirely possible that none of these creatures exist today, some of them could exist, or perhaps they all exist today (although, that is really far-fetched).
When we look at the major types of biomes: aquatic, grassland, forest, desert, and tundra, there is a vast amount of area in these territories that is unexplored. Humans have explored and visually observed less than 0.001% of the ocean floor. There are a lot of potential creatures down there that we are not familiar with. In each of these biomes, there are occasionally new discoveries every few years it seems e.g. a new species of turtle, a new species of snake, etc. that was not known until recent times.
Who knows what else is out there? While not a matter of faith, this stuff is nevertheless interesting. But again, we know the demons lurk the Earth hoping to doom human wayfarers going through life. We are not privy to much of the influence that they have over us and we need to be cognizant of this fact. I am not trying to say that all of these creatures I mentioned are fictitious. There have been many reported sightings of some of these creatures. It would be unreasonable to conclude all of these people are kooks. These creatures could exist today or could have existed many ages ago. We simply do not know.
-TradWarrior
Here in Mexico many believe The Chupacabras was a government hoax.
DeleteIt is not allowed to believe the Eve didnt come from Adam.
ReplyDelete@anon1:11
DeleteYou are correct. I stated that in my post.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Since Eve came from Adam, what's the point in holding to evolution?
DeleteIn 1860 the Provincial Council of Cologne, approved by the Holy See, enacted the following canon: Our first parents were created immediately by God (Gen. 2,7). Therefore, we declare as quite the contrary to Holy Scripture and the Faith the opinion of those who dare to assert that man, in respect of his body, is derived by spontaneous transformation from an imperfect nature, which improved continually until it reached the present human state.
Delete@anon7:32
DeleteEve was miraculous, as was Adam. The question is "HOW" each was developed. Adam's body was progressive, Eve was not. This is where the Magisterium must be followed. The Church says that Eve came from Adam and I must believe it. Therefore, I do so believe. The Church says Adam's body MAY have developed. I think the evidence points to this, therefore, I believe that.
God Bless,
---Introibo
@anon8:05
DeleteSeveral distinctions:
*The Provincial Council of Cologne was teaching against DARWINIAN evolution. It is correct
*The fact that theologians taught the possibility of non-Darwinian development with miraculous intervention as early as the 1870s WITHOUT CENSURE means that it was not against Church teaching.
*The authors (approved theologians of great weight) I cite drew many distinctions and Pope Pius XII confirmed this by his encyclical.
God Bless,
---Introibo
How is Darwinian Evolution different than the evolution you believe in?
DeleteThe Council of Cologne said "immediately" which rules out all evolution, not just Darwinian.
Delete@anon5:34
DeleteNot true at all. You must interpret what was said as the Church understood it, not as a "plain meaning." For example, Feeneyites/Dimondites will state that the Creed says there is "ONE Baptism for the remission of sins" not three so this rules out Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood.
"Immediately" was chosen to combat the Darwinian evolution. The approved theologians who were teaching the formation of Adam's body from pre-existing living matter after 1860 were never censured by Pope Pius IX, Pope St. Pius X or any other pope.
The Church interprets canons, not individual Catholics.
---Introibo
@anon8:57
DeleteDarwin's original theory was chance-driven. Neo-Darwinism incorporates Mendelian genetics (Mendel was a Catholic monk). You can easily see God working through reliable Natural Laws rather than constant miracles. It separates scientific descriptions from ultimate questions.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Introibo, you write above: The approved theologians are clear that the opinion of a human body that developed and was not created immediately can be (not must be) held:
DeleteCologne said "immediately."
Introibo now has a different meaning to "immediately."
Rome interpreted Cologne exactly opposite to your (Introibo) position as the Holy Office explained in the 1800's.
@anon9:54
DeleteHere’s a more in depth explanation.
The Provincial Council of Cologne (1860) issued a local condemnation targeting a specific materialistic view of human origins, not a universally binding dogmatic definition that would preclude all later discussion.
The relevant decree from the Concilium Provinciale Coloniense (Acta et Decreta, 1860, I.IV.14) states:
“ Our first parents were made [conditi] immediately by God. Therefore, clearly opposed to Sacred Scripture and to faith is the opinion … that man, even considering only his body, was brought forth by the spontaneous change [immutatio] of a less perfect nature into a more perfect one in a way that is continuous and culminates in a human nature.”
Qualifying terms:
Immediate (directly/immediately by God).
Spontaneous change (immutatio spontanea) — implying purely natural, unguided, materialistic processes without special divine causality.
Continuous process culminating in man.
Pope Pius IX sent a letter praising the council as a whole and recognizing that it had been conducted lawfully. In the canon law of the era (pre-1917 Code) such papal recognition approved the synod’s procedural legitimacy but did not automatically elevate every doctrinal statement to the level of the Pope’s own ordinary magisterium or make it binding on the universal Church.
Remember, the Target of Cologne’s condemnation was narrower: It rejected spontaneous (purely natural, unguided, materialistic) continuous transformation without special divine action. Humani Generis and reconciling theologians never endorsed that view. They always insisted on God’s direct creative action for the soul and (in most proposals) a special divine role in the final disposition of the body.
“Immediately” (immediate) is compatible with qualified secondary causality:
In Thomistic terms, God is always the principal cause. “Immediate” affirms that God acts directly as Creator, not that every detail excludes preparatory natural processes under divine providence.
—-Introibo
Theologian Leroy who claimed to be following Cologne as you just explained was shown to be wrong by the Holy Office.
Delete@anon7:00
DeleteNo, he wasn’t. You just want to hear what you want to hear. Go ahead. Cite his EXACT TEACHING along with the EXACT VERBIAGE from the Holy Office that shows Cologne was dogmatic and admits of no other understanding but yours. Furthermore, explain how authors like Van Noort and Tanquerry weren’t censured.
Lastly, cite instances of protest against Pope Pius XII and accusations of heresy.
—-Introibo
Is your position the same as theologian Francios Leroy who held to evolution and held up Cologne? Or is it different and how? What theologians held what you hold specifically? Thank you@
DeleteTheologain Hunter stated right before the quote you cited:
DeleteAt the present day, it appears to some writers of
weight that the meaning of the Sacred Text is too
clear to admit of doubt, and these hold that the
immediate formation of man is a matter of Divine
faith, (n. 326.)
Then Hunter writes:
"Others think it possible that close study of the visible world, which we have called a divinely composed commentary upon the Written Word may possibly give good ground for believing that the apparent meaning of the Mosaic narrative is not the true meaning, and that the body of the first Man was prepared by the operation of natural causes, without any extraordinary action of God. These therefore suspend their judgement, and await further light upon the subject, whether it come to them by a pronouncement of the Church, or by the progress of natural science."
We see that Hunter's meaning of "immediate" means that evolution of any kind is excluded. Now you argued that Cologne's meaning of "immediate" meant differently than Hunter's plain meaning. Yet, Hunter's explanation of the "others think...body of the first Man was prepared by the operation of natural causes, without any extraordinary action of God" is the very Darwin evolution you claim Cologne was condemning and which you also credit Hunter for approving.
Can you explain?
@anon6:37
DeleteSure.
1. Provincial Councils do not define dogma for the universal Church. They express authoritative local teaching. It was (in the case of Cologne) the majority teaching of the theologians at that time. It is NOT irrevocable.
2. Hunter did NOT take a position. He laid out the majority position and stated "some others" (theologians) held that science MIGHT ONE DAY show evolution of the day to be true and withheld judgement. Hunter's overall treatment defends the majority opinion absent compelling reasons for theologians to abandon it.
3. The approval of Pope Pius IX does not indicate his agreement of the canons--only they are not contrary to Faith. Since it was (and remains) undecided, you cannot be condemned either way.
I hope this helped!
---Introibo
@anon6:37
DeleteIn short summation, I agree with theologian Tanquerey whom I cited above.
---Introibo
I apologize for the confusion. Tanquerey himself didn't agree with evolution. What theologian holds to the type of evolution that you hold? Do you agree with Leroy and if not what the difference between his position and yours?
DeleteMy question about Cologne and Hunter was entirely misunderstood. Let me try again. Sorry for being so unclear.
DeleteYou said that Cologne was right in its condemnation of Darwinian evolution.
You also used Hunter to show that "approved theologians are clear that the opinion of a human body that developed and was not created immediately can be (not must be) held."
The quote you use of Hunter talks about theologians that held, "the body of the first Man was prepared by the operation of natural causes, without any extraordinary action of God" which is Darwinian type of evolution, which is condemned at Cologne. Yet, this is the quote you're using to say we may believe in evolution.
Are you saying that Catholics are permitted to believe "the body of the first Man was prepared by the operation of natural causes, without any extraordinary action of God" and Cologne can be disregarded?
The second aspect to my comment was the fact that the word "immediate" used by Hunter clearly excludes any type of evolution, which is why he goes on to explain those that do. Why would Hunter use "immediate" differently than Cologne?
@anon6{01 and 6:24
DeleteNo, I/m saying what Hunter did that as science develops, a type of evolution may be held, and it would develop without Divine intervention but only become human with Divine Intervention.
If you want to understand my position, then read theologian Zeferino Cardinal Gonzales y Dias Tunon (1831-1894).
He had quite the distinguished ecclesiastical career. He was made Bishop of Cordoba in 1875, Archbishop of Seville (1883), and later Archbishop of Toledo.
Pope Leo XIII created him Cardinal in 1884. Pope Leo respected his works greatly and incorporated some of his ideas into his encyclical "Providentissimus Deus" (1893).
He resigned from all his offices (except the cardinalate) in 1889 due to poor health, and remained an esteemed theologian under Pope Leo, until Tunon died in 1894.
His works supported the following thesis: an animal body prepared by evolution could become apt for a human soul through Divine action at the moment of ensoulment.
He argued brilliantly (as a strict Thomist) that he teaching was not contrary to Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition (including Sts. Augustine and Aquinas) or dogma.
See his works, especially "La Biblia y la Ciencia" (1891) where he discusses his evolutionary ideas. None of his books was censured, nor was he ever required to retract or recant anything he taught. Pope Leo XIII was very well acquainted with the Cardinal and his writings and saw no problems. His works were never removed by a subsequent true pope (St. Pius X, Benedict XV, Pius XI, Pius XII).
I suggest you read theologian Tunon to answer your queries.
---Introibo
I'm sorry, but I'm still not following you about Hunter and Cologne. Why was "immediate" used differently? If Cologne meant it as Hunter (and there's no reason to think it didn't) then Cologne is against all evolution.
DeleteHowever, you gave me some insight with theologian Zeferino Cardinal Gonzales y Dias Tunon who was not quite on the same page as Leroy. However, the Cardinal did support the thesis of Catholic biologist St. George Jackson Mivart, accepting that God could have formed the first human bodies not from direct clay, but through the transformation of pre-existing animal bodies. González believed that at the moment a creature's body was sufficiently prepared by evolution, a unique and direct divine intervention was required to infuse the human soul and elevate the organism to a truly human state.
Fellow Spanish theologian Norberto del Prado was against the theory and pushed back.
Gonzalez was definitely against strict Darwinism, but did hold to a modified theory of which Hunter said in his work. It appears to be against the canon at Cologne if we take the word "immediate" to mean the same as Hunter used it. Even Gonzalez uses the term "immediately" the same way. He writes starting on page 550: Mivart’s thesis—the hypothesis admitting the possibility that the body of the first man (the organism that received the rational soul created by God and infused into Adam) acquired the organization necessary to receive the human soul not directly and immediately from the hand of God, but rather through the action of earlier living beings that were—physically speaking—more or less perfect and similar to man. However, this hypothesis presents serious difficulties from a purely philosophical and scientific standpoint.
2. a These difficulties disappear—or are at least mitigated—by connecting Mivart’s hypothesis with the idea suggested by Saint Thomas regarding the possibility that causes or agents other than God intervened in the formation of Adam’s body (or, more precisely, in its preliminary preparation up to a certain degree of development), while always reserving to God’s action the final preparation and the immediate organic disposition for receiving the rational soul. In this way, and in accordance with this conception held by the Angelic Doctor, the core of Mivart’s hypothesis is preserved without compromising the direct and immediate action of God in the formation of the first man’s body—an action that traditional biblical exegesis appears to require. Continued...
Cardinal Gonzalez continues: 3.a When the hypothesis of the pre-existence of an organic and animated body for the first man is considered in general terms, it is found to be in harmony with the ideas of Saint Thomas regarding the process nature follows in the generation of living beings—man included. In this process of generation, according to the Angelic Doctor, a true upward development of life takes place—not through transformative evolution, as Darwinism claims, but through the succession of a higher or more perfect vital principle (as he states: *tota generationis transmutatio non est continua, sed sunt multae generationes intermediae*) replacing a lower and less perfect one. In the production of man, just as in that of animals, there occurs an ascending succession of substantial forms; through these, the body destined to become part of man acquires the appropriate organization and the final dispositions to receive the rational soul. Upon being infused into the body—thereby informing and vivifying it—this soul displaces the sensitive soul that had previously informed and vivified it.just as the sensitive soul had succeeded the nutritive or vegetative one. In accordance with the foregoing ideas, D'Estienne rightly observes that the creation of a spiritual and rational soul—one that assimilates, or, better put, virtually absorbs and contains the life proper to a previously formed organism—entails no concept that is contradictory or incompatible with the sacred text. This implies that if, in the course of time, biology, anthropology, and paleontology—along with other physical and natural sciences—were to demonstrate (a difficult task, to be sure) that the human organism is and was related and linked to other earlier and inferior organisms, there would be no grounds for scandal or distress for a person of the Catholic faith, provided that such a relationship and connection were not extended to the rational soul; provided that God’s creation of the rational soul in the first man remained intact—endowed with the characteristics of intelligence and freedom, and with the attributes necessary to constitute, together with the aforementioned organism, the species and personality proper to man.
DeleteIn any case, regarding a matter so complex and inherently difficult, it is advisable not to lose sight of the caution and the exegetical-biblical principles recommended and practiced by the early Fathers.
I can't read something in Spanish for La Biblia y la Ciencia wasn't translated into English. So tell me what exactly is his and your position in English?
Delete@anon10:28 and 5:59
Delete1. I've already explained it and don't know how to make it more clear. Read theologian Tunon.
2. @5:59
See the brief synopsis of @10:28 above.
---Introibo
I stopped reading your posts a long time ago once I realized you were a science guy all the way. So dumb. You actually defend the moon landing hoax which really ended my taking your posts seriously anymore. I glance at your posts periodically but rarely read the full thing. The problem is you're right to a degree in that the Catholic Church "went science" centuries ago
ReplyDelete@anon8:41
DeleteI'm not in this for popularity or money. Don't like it, don't read it, no skin off my nose.
Yet you claim I'm dumb for believing the Moon landing took place. The Moon landing conspiracy nuts are among the most reason-challenged people I know.
The Catholic Church approves of science centuries ago--indeed! Gregor Mendel (a monk) was the Father of Genetics, and the Big Bang Theory comes to us from a Catholic priest.
The Church has been "crazy" all these centuries! LOL
---Introibo
There is a lot of mention recently about Pope Pius XII. John Gregory makes reference to this in his above comment and how Pius XII’s name keeps coming up in controversial topics.
ReplyDeleteIntroibo referenced the point last week that some traditionalists want to deny the papacy of Pius XII. This spans different traditionalists. I think we need to take into account the ramifications if we do this though.
If Pius XII was not pope, we need to think about the consequences:
*The Dogma of the Assumption was never a proclaimed dogma. The Immaculate Conception was the last Marian dogma the church produced.
*Great writings such as “Humani Generis,” “Mystici Corporis Christi,” and several others never existed.
*The various modernist theologians that were censured by Pius in “Humani Generis” for example, now have no bearing e.g. Murray, Schillebeeckx, Kung, Ratzinger, Rahner, de Lubac, de Chardin, Urs von Balthasar, Congar, Chenu, Bouyer, Daniélou, Mouroux, etc.
*A writing like “Sacramentum Ordinis” now has no bearing on anything, although it settled the matter and form for the episcopacy, priesthood, and diaconate definitively.
*Saints like Gemma Galgani, Frances Xavier Cabrini, Louis de Montfort, Catherine Labouré, Antonio Claret, Maria Goretti, and perhaps the biggest name of all, Pius X – were all never declared saints. Pius X is regarded by many people as the greatest pope there ever was. If we remove Pius XII from ever being pope, then there is no St. Pius X.
*The correlations to Fatima are removed. Pacelli was consecrated a bishop the very day the first apparition took place at Fatima, on May 13, 1917. Furthermore, Pius XII saw “The Miracle of the Sun” four times around the proclamation of the Dogma of the Assumption, which declaration now has no validity.
*All the Jews that Pius XII helped to save during World War II were simply done by a layman. Likewise, his fight against both the Nazis and the Communists were merely done by a layman.
*Pius XII wisely condemned the modernists through his writings, not in calling an ecumenical council which he seriously considered calling to condemn the modern errors. He believed it would take 20 years to properly prepare for a council. Compare that to John XXIII who got the idea for calling Vatican II while strolling through the Vatican gardens. He rehabilitated the very “periti” who were condemned by Pius XII.
*There were many matters of discipline that Pius XII made that enhanced the church. The “St. Joseph the Worker” feast to combat Communism, the Holy Week revisions which helped to return some of these practices to the way they were celebrated in the earlier centuries, and the Eucharistic fast being lessened to three hours before receiving Holy Communion instead of midnight the night before. With the modern world changing, a modern update was needed. Trying to go 20 hours with a fast from midnight the night before to a late evening Sunday Mass would not be possible for most people. If there was no Pius XII, then we must all adhere to midnight the night before. The amount of hours one would go without food would be unbearable for nearly everyone today.
*Jesus appeared to Pius XII in a private vision in 1954 and healed Pius when he was seriously ill. Pius believed that Jesus was going to take him to Heaven and was convinced this was the end for him because he was so gravely ill. Our Lord granted him another four years of life. Why would Jesus do this if this man was a false pope? He would want him removed from his imposter role immediately, not prolong his pontificate. It makes no sense.
If we are going to remove Pius XII as pope, then we have to be prepared to be fine with all of these bullet points I mentioned, and more!
CONTINUED…
ReplyDeleteWe need to consider the issues regarding the three different periods of time that Vacancy Pushers advocate for.
*Pius X was the last pope.
If this is the case, then we remove not only Pius XII, but also Pius XI and Benedict XV. Pius XI fought against the Fascists and the Communists as well as wrote many wonderful papal writings. “Quas Primas,” “Casti Connubii,” “Mit Brennender Sorge,” “Divini Redemptoris,” and many other writings are now off the table if he was never pope. Benedict XV was never pope during World War I in which he did much to stop the war, nor did he promulgate the 1917 Code of Canon Law. Without the Code of Canon Law, insurmountable problems follow, as we go into the 20th century without a lot of ecclesiastical measures put in place.
*Pius IX was the last pope.
Pius X never reigned and there is no catechism he promulgated, no “Pascendi Dominici Gregis,” no “Lamentabili Sane,” no “E. Supremi,” no “Sodalitium Pianum,” and much more!
Leo XIII never gave us all of his magnificent papal writings on the rosary, there was no “Quod Apostolici Muneris,” “Arcanum Divinae,” “Immortale Dei,” “Libertas Praestantissimum,” “Humanum Genus,” and so much more!
If people think this is far-fetched, it is not. I knew an individual who rejected Leo XIII because he thought he was a freemason. This person was a vacancy pusher and a Feeneyite. It is ridiculous! Leo XIII was one of MANY popes who condemned freemasonry. His encyclical “Humanum Genus,” is the most well-known condemnation of freemasonry among ALL papal writings, but he was not limited to this writing alone. He condemned them in several other writings too. This gets to a level of complete absurdity!
*Honorius II was the last pope.
So we have no St. Pius V, Innocent XI, Innocent III, and so many other wonderful popes for hundreds of years. This position is so incredibly stupid that we do not even need to say anything more.
Fr. DePauw was correct that we need to look to October 9, 1958 as the line that needs to be drawn for traditionalists with the death of Pope Pius XII. If all traditionalists could agree with this point first and foremost, then we can go from there to work out the additional dividing issues.
-TradWarrior
I am sure many of them have not thought it out to any great extent as this. It's a good way of showing how getting the cutoff wrong will *alter their faith*, perhaps even to the point of losing it at some juncture. At what point that may be is unclear for now; but it would be imprudent to declare a Pius XII doubter a 'heretic' (in case that should happen) when he has got all the pretenders following Pius XII correctly assessed as false popes.
Delete+JMJ+
One problem in this Great Apostasy is that we do not have a pope to settle things and naturally there is going to follow a lot of in-fighting. This is expected and debates and discussions are good so that we can try and solve our way through much of this. Unfortunately, no one is exempt from criticism and at the end of the day, what really gets solved?
ReplyDeleteI think about all of the critiques and sometimes just shake my head. Introibo is wrong to hold to long ages. Steve Speray has rejected Guadalupe and has no right to do so. Louie Verrecchio needs to reject the FSSP and ICK since they have invalid priests and start clearly stating that he is a sedevacantist now. Mario Derksen’s articles are way too long. The CMRI is too lax with the Una Cum issue. Bishop Sanborn is way too in love with his Thesis and shouldn’t reject the Pian Holy Week. The SSPV needs to stop the anti-Thuc nonsense. Bishop Roy is a hopeless dreamer with his imperfect general council. Bishop McGuire needs to clean up all the damage that was done to the SGG from previous years. TradWarrior writes too long of comments. I throw myself in here because none of us are above criticism, including me, a poor sinner. Some of these criticisms are more justified than others, but again, the overlying point is that we do not have a pope to settle things and we may not have one for a long time. This is where prayer, fasting, and penance are needed much more. If Our Lord sees fit to give His Holy Catholic Church a pope again at some point, then it will happen. If not, then things will remain like this until He comes again in glory. We must try and display charity, patience, humility, and all of the virtues. We will need final perseverance too, for darker days are ahead.
-TradWarrior
It may be dark with darker days ahead but you made me laugh with "Mario Derksen’s articles are way too long" and then referencing your own comments for good measure. Nah they're not too long.
Delete+JMJ+
I could not agree with you more TradWarrior. Since leaving the Novus Ordo last year and finding this site , one of the persons besides Introibo helping me in my path to the Truth has been you. Many thanks.
ReplyDeleteI think your thoughts on the dating and marriage issue to be some of the best in the Traditional world. I am single , middle aged and I tell you just disappointment after disappointment. Some ways I am at peace not putting up with a nagging modern woman who says what ever I do is not good enough. I am sure there are some good women out there but where. Most Traditional women are too wrapped up with their phones and face book.
@anon12:24am,
DeleteThank you very much for the kind words. They are extremely appreciated. I am glad that my writing has helped you.
You may have been the person who asked me a while back to write an article on the single vocation. In time, I do hope to get to that. Introibo has written some amazing articles on the different vocations already. I am not sure what more I could add, but I certainly will try. You are correct that it is hard out there finding someone like yourself. I have had the same troubles for a long time. For peace of mind, I agree with you that staying single is probably the best way to go; however, anyone can meet someone at any time so do not lose hope.
I will keep you in prayer.
God bless you,
-TradWarrior
Introibo,
ReplyDeleteI've been reading back through the previous comments made by various people and I've noticed that you say that you believe people who do not believe in Fatima (Private revelationist minimizers) and those who believe it's wrong to hold to a debatable position based on Pope Pius XII regarding the formation of Adam are holding the Church in contempt. Would you say the same for Fr. Gabriel Lavery who holds the Church in contempt for approving the Mystical City of God through it's numerous approbations of popes and bishops? You seem to welcome his criticisms in spite of the facts that prove otherwise.
Mark B.
Mark,
DeleteFr. Lavery made the following claim on a post on "X" (formerly Twitter):
"Today I held a piece of history in my hands: The actual printed decree of prohibition (June 26, 1681) of the works of Agreda sent to Nuncio Millini in Madrid with attached handwritten letter (Aug 30) of Cardinal Cybo, secretary of State of Blessed Innocent XI, instructing him to distribute copies of the decree throughout Spain...It is one of several archival sources that have not yet been brought to light which will make up the true and complete story of Agreda and her works and her works once I have finished compiling everything and publishing the research..."
Fr. Lavery claims to have incontrovertible proof that the works of Agreda were actually CONDEMNED by the Church. He bases this on items he personally got from the Vatican Achieve and took photos of the various decrees certified as authentic.
Is this true? I don't know as he yet to publish anything.
Now, as too your query: You ask, " Would you say the same for Fr. Gabriel Lavery who holds the Church in contempt for approving the Mystical City of God through it's numerous approbations of popes and bishops?"
Answer: Fr. Lavery is claiming that it was NOT approved but CONDEMNED by the Church--and he has proof of the actual documents signed by true popes.
I'm not going to argue that as he has not yet published anything, so I'm suspending judgement. SUBJECTIVELY, Fr. Lavery cannot be guilty of contempt for the Church as he is convinced the Church condemned the works of Agreda.
If he proves his case, he is objectively not guilty as someone should be critical of what the Church condemns.
If he does NOT prove his case, and is shown that despite the evidence he is wrong, THEN he must retract what he said and accept Agerda's work, or be guilty of contempt of the Church's approval.
Thank you for an excellent question!
God Bless,
---Introibo
My question would be: "What clerical error caused this to be forgotten (if true)"?
DeleteAnother question could be: How do we know if the supposed "decree of prohibition" isn't a (clever) forgery? Doesn't Fr. G.L. bear this burden of proof? Or how do we know its meaning isn't being misconstrued?
Deletehttps://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B999_M642_Dro.html for more context. God bless.
In the catholic-hierarchy.org site, the name of the cardinal is spelled "Cibo". But "Alderano Cybo" is the Wikipedia spelling of his name. We await the published results of Fr. Lavery. Access to Vatican Archives is very highly restricted. Someone with connections must be assisting him. And are we dealing with more than one archive, such as one in Madrid too?
DeleteTimothy Duff proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the MCG is Vatican approved.
DeleteRead all the papal approvals at: https://www.neemcog.com/OfficialPapalApproval.htm
Two examples: Benedict XIII (1724-1730)
The Mystical City of God, having been minutely scrutinized periodically for decades by Rome, was finally given entire and unequivocal approval by Benedict XIII, who signed the following decree of the Sacred Congregation of Rites, which was examining the cause for the beatification of Ven. Mary:
“It is ordered that the cause of the above-mentioned Servant of God shall be continued before the holy Congregation of Rites without further examination of the Mystical City of God, and these books can be retained and read. March 14, 1729.”
2nd example: On Jan. 16, 1748, Benedict XIV promulgated a decree in which he declared the Mystical City of God contained nothing contrary to faith or morals.
Full approval having been given, the enemies of the Mystical City of God could no longer attack the book itself, so their final attacks were against the claims that Ven. Mary actually wrote and personally composed the book. On May 7, 1757, Benedict XIV answered the first charge by promulgating the following decree:
“It follows the Venerable Servant of God, Sister Mary of Jesus of Ágreda, wrote in the Spanish language the work which is treated in eight volumes and distributed under the title The Mystical City of God.”
He also stated in 1753 (as extant in Magnum Bullarium Romanum):
“We read in the history of the life of Sr. Mary of Jesus that after she had written the work known as The Mystical City of God a certain confessor commanded her to burn the work. She did so immediately as she was ordered. Then another confessor who was more experienced in spiritual matters commanded her to rewrite the work anew. It happened, not without a miracle, that the same work was rewritten by the Servant of God without any discrepancy from the one which was burned previously, except for certain unimportant editions.”
WHY ARE YOU WAITING for Lavery when the facts are already known throughout the world?
@anon8:02
DeleteI accept MCG unless and until the opposite is proven.
—-Introibo
I am not sure, but this whole thing may be related to a misunderstanding of how the Magisterium works. The Church may possibly judge a work as imprudent, or may possibly condemn it for a time; but this is not to be given quasi-dogmatic status. A certain example comes to mind:
DeleteThis example is of a different order, but concerns, I think, our question: St. Joan of Arc was condemned at first, but later rehabilitated; Pope Callixtus III ordered a re-trial in 1455. My point is that the Pope can reverse the decision of a previous Pope so long as it is not ex-cathedra; and he can overrule anyone else in any case. In the case of St. Joan, the Papacy was not involved in her first trial.
Given the nature of Agreda’s work, it is possible that the idea of how it came into existence was condemned at first - but I would bet (if I were to bet) that nothing in the nature of an ex-cathedra condemnation was made. In the end we are here concerned with what might be called an obsolete ruling.
+JMJ+
I forgot to preface the previous by thanking anon Jul.11 8:02pm for the clarification.
DeleteThis is a well-reasoned article which takes a *prudent* position regarding the Church's stance on early Genesis. I might add it was also prudent for the Church not to have dogmatized the literal 6-day Creation interpretation for the reason we are having this discussion today. Imagine if for some reason of controversy the Church did in the distant past; what would have been the result for recent times when science advanced (I mean geology and such; not Darwinism) ? But that would never happen (due to the Papacy). At any rate, this prevents us from either anathematizing others on the one hand or finding the Church wrong on the other. So it ought not to be a big issue; one of those things to set aside while finding that commonality regarding 1958.
ReplyDeleteHere's an idea regarding the creation of Adam, at any rate:
“2:7. And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.”
Adam could have been, when formed before life, in an 'incorrupt' state (like that of the Blessed Virgin) which does not resemble death because at that point there was no Original Sin for him; also he was not born. There seems to have been an interval between the formation and the breathing of life. Not sure if I read something similar before - might have been St. Augustine in City of God if anywhere.
+JMJ+