Thursday, November 14, 2013

Can A Traditionalist Attend Mass At SSPX?


 Several Traditionalists, including one who commented on my last post, have asked my opinion as to whether or not attendance at the Mass at a Chapel of the Society of St Pius X (SSPX) is permissible. I write this post with the proviso that this is only my opinion based on my reasoning concerning the facts at hand and Traditional Roman Catholic principles. I am not a theologian, nor have I ever claimed to be one. Neither I, nor anyone else, can answer questions such as this one with authority. This is an area where reasonable Traditionalists can disagree since there is currently no hierarchy with Ordinary jurisdiction, because of the defection of the hierarchy following Vatican II. I hope and pray that Christ will lead us all to the right conclusions in areas where there are no clear answers in an era of unprecedented apostasy and confusion. In the days before the death of Pope Pius XII, you could always ask the Supreme Pontiff for a definitive answer to any query concerning our Faith, but we are now in a time of sedevacante.  With that said, I will outline my thoughts on the subject.


Always Evaluate the Particular Priest(s) Who Function At The Church/Chapel
 

Do NOT be concerned with the Traditionalist group (if any) to which they belong. Being a member of a Traditionalist group does not mean that the individual priests all subscribe to the "party line" of the leadership. All my readers know that I call the SSPX "pseudo-Traditionalist" because they want to be with "Pope" Francis, yet think they can decide what they will and will not accept from him, and that is simply not Catholic. I also recognize that many SSPX priests have not/do not adhere to this principle of the official leaders. Therefore, find out about the priest himself, and not the organization. There are basically three groups that run Traditionalist Churches and Chapels; The Society of St. Pius V (SSPV), The Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen (CMRI), and independent Bishops and Priests. The SSPV and CMRI are both sedevacantist--the CMRI is declared as such and the SSPV is "open" to sedevacantism. As I attend the SSPV, I know all the priests (with one possible exception), and both Bishops are sedevacantists.

 It is only in embracing sedevacantism that we will avoid the pitfalls of being drawn into Modernism and someday bring back a real pope with an imperfect General Council. Therefore, what principles should be employed when evaluating a priest who runs a Traditionalist Church/Chapel?

  1. You should always attend the Mass and receive the sacraments from a sedevacantist priest or Bishop, if at all possible.
   If you are lucky enough to be near a sedevacantist Church or Chapel, that is where you belong. You do not want to have the name of Antipope Francis in the Sacred Canon of the Mass. I have great respect for Fr. Anthony Cekada, who has written an excellent article "The Grain of Incense" available at www.traditionalmass.org. However, I do NOT accept his conclusion that it is an objective sin to attend a True Mass where the name of the antipope is used in the Canon. I agree with the CMRI that since no abjuration of heresy is required on the part of a SSPX priest who becomes a sedevacantist, holding the mistaken notion that Francis could somehow be the pope is not in and of itself heretical, AS LONG AS HE REJECTS VATICAN II AND ITS ERRORS. He then maintains the Catholic Faith, although mistaken on the issue of the identity of the pope. Therefore, if there is no other option, you may attend the Mass of a Traditionalist priest who inserts the name of Antipope Francis in the Mass and receive the sacraments from him. If something is not objectively heretical, although not ideal, it can not be sinful.

2. You must NEVER attend a Church or Chapel in actual union with Modernist Rome.
 
Avoid like the plague the Fraternal Society of St Peter (FSSP), and any other so-called "indult" or "Motu" organization which accepts Francis not merely in theory but in actual fact. Being in union with Francis means they must accept the legitimacy of Vatican II and its heretical teachings. To go there would be to accept the errors, like attending the services of the Greek Orthodox or Protestants.
 
   3. Make sure the priest has valid orders.
 
In the case of the above mentioned Modernist-sanctioned chapels and churches, most have invalidly ordained priests over and above the problem of union with heresy. You must be sure to have a real priest to avoid worshiping mere bread in an invalid Mass. In the case of the SSPV and CMRI, all are validly ordained. In the case of independents, ask who ordained them.  If they were ordained pre-1968, or by Abp. Lefebvre (and his lineage), Abp. Thuc (and his lineage), or Bishop Mendez (and his lineage), you are dealing with a properly trained and validly ordained priest. In the SSPX, you must ask if he was ordained by Abp. Lefebvre, or one of the four Bishops he consecrated, and that the Traditional Rite of ordination was used. The SSPX has been letting Vatican II sect "priests" join without getting a conditional re-ordination! They are invalid and all the sacraments they attempt to confect (except for baptism and matrimony) are invalid as well. Once, at the request of the candidate, Abp. Lefebvre used the new rite of ordination, which means he left the ceremony as just a deacon. Be sure of which Bishop ordained him and that the Traditional Rite was used. N.B. Those independents who are ordained by the "Old Catholic" sect "bishops" are dubiously ordained, as there are problems with their orders in America. You must not go to priests so ordained!!
 
 
4. The priest must accept Baptism of Desire (BOD) and Baptism of Blood (BOB).
 
 Ask if he rejects the heresy of  Fr. Leonard Feeney, who denied BOD and BOB. The priest must accept this doctrine as explained by the Holy Office under Pope Pius XII or you must not attend.
 
 
5.  He must expressly reject Vatican II's heresies
 
 
  Ask him if he rejects, as alien to the Divine and Catholic Faith, Vatican II's teachings on ecumenism, collegiality, etc. If he claims that Vatican II contains no heresy, but was merely "misinterpreted" or that Vatican II was only "pastoral" and such teachings are "not binding" you must press the issue and ask him if he rejects those "misinterpreted" or "non-binding" teachings. If he doesn't, he's in heresy.
 
 
6. Priests that use the Missal of 1954 are preferred over those that use the Missal of 1958. Those who use the Missal of 1958 are preferred over those who use the Missal of 1962.
 
 
The SSPV uses the 1954 Missal, with the calendar and rubrics of 1954, before the pre-Vatican II changes that were inspired by men who wished to further the Modernist agenda. Not heretical in and of themselves, the changes of Pope Pius XII in the calendar and rubrics were used by duplicitous individuals to get the faithful used to change. Thus 1954 is superior to the 1958 Missal used by the CMRI. The SSPX uses the rubrics and calendar of Roncalli (John XXIII), but some keep parts of his changes out and do not recite the name of St. Joseph in the Sacred Canon as added by John XXIII.
 
 
Summary and Conclusion
  • Judge the priest(s) theological positions, not the organization.
  • Always attend the Mass of a Traditionalist sedevacantist priest whenever feasible. (Some SSPX priests are "crypto-sedevacantists" who can't say what they believe or face expulsion).
  • Ask the priest the name of his ordaining Bishop, and if the Traditional Rite of ordination was used to make sure he is a valid priest.
  • NEVER attend the Mass of a "priest" who is in union with the Modernist Vatican (even if validly ordained).
  • Ask if he rejects the errors of Vatican II (he must or he is a heretic)
  • Ask if he accepts BOD and BOB (he must or he is a heretic)
  • Ask what Missal he uses. 1954 is best, then 1958, then 1962.
  • Any priest who refuses to answer such questions has something to hide and must be avoided at all costs.
Using these principles, if there is no option for you except an SSPX chapel, you may attend provided he rejects Vatican II's errors in principle and was validly ordained in the Traditional Rite. All SSPX priests are taught to reject the Feenyite heresy and they use the 1962 Missal with some pre-1962 rubrics. I know there are those who will disagree with my positions on the validity of Thuc Bishops and attending the so-called "una cum" Mass (using the name of Francis in the Canon). However, I am comfortable before God with the positions I have taken and conclusion I have drawn. I hope this helps Traditionalists in deciding where to attend Mass and receive the sacraments.
 
Remember too, that you should be strong in the Faith. Do not let the position of the SSPX on the "pope" make you soft. Rather, use it as an opportunity to forge friendships and influence others in that chapel (including the priest) to re-think their position on Francis with some well placed questions. In so doing you might get others to reject Antipope Francis and further expose his sect of darkness. Deo gratias.  
 




 

16 comments:

  1. Thank you so much for this article. You have answered my questions in this current time of mass confusion.

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  2. You're welcome Carolyn. I'm glad God could use me as His instrument to help you!

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  3. Our priest is a Thuc line ordination in the pre-june 1968 rite . Wonderful article,I wish vatican 2 types without a clue could read this article before next Sunday!

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  4. "Introibo Ad Altare Dei" ... you're a heretic against the *mountian* of Dogma on Automatic Excommunication for heresy.

    Heretic Lefebvre was automatically excommunicated from the Catholic Church on 8 December 1965 when he approved the over 200 heresies in the "vatican-2 council" documents.

    After falling excommunicated ... Lefebvre (like all the other heretics at the "council" could no longer Ordain priests.

    The "sspx" hoax has ... *zero* priests ... the "sspx" hoax stage shows only *look like* Catholic Mass, they are not Mass.

    Please struggle to wake up.

    Automatic Excommunication Sources of Dogma are listed on Section 13.2 of my site > www.Immaculata-one.com.

    If you want to be Christian someday ... please see the Abjuration of heresy on Section 19.1 of the site.

    Second Council of Constantinople, 553 A.D. -- Ex-Cathedra Dogma >
    "The heretic, even though he has not been condemned formally by any individual, in reality brings anathema on himself, having cut himself off from the way of truth by his heresy."

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    1. Mike, you're so off-base it's sad. For starters, please give me the citation in theology for your absurd contention that heretical bishops cannot validly ordain priests. (I'm not calling Apb. Lefebvre a heretic, but if he were it has NO EFFECT on his ability to validly ordain priests).

      Reply to that one query please, and we can go from there.
      ---Introibo

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  5. One bizarre case of traditional "priest's" is "Msgr Perez" & his church "Our Lady Help of Christians".
    They are "independent" yet recognize Jorge as Pope,accept V2,celebrate the (either 1958 or 1962) Holy Mass,and are ordained in post 1968 rite by post 1968 Bishop's.I may be wrong but I think "Msgr Perez" while ordained in new rite by a new bishop (post 1968 rites) received his "consecration" from a Syro-Malabar Bishop.
    Personally I think this group means well but is very confused and aren't properly trained,formed,and learned.

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    1. I don't personally know of this clergyman, but if what you say is accurate, I would stay away. "Confused" is a word that doesn't even begin to cover the situation!

      ---Introibo

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  6. I know I wish we had a true Mass in St. Louis. We have an SSPX but as long as they continue to accept Jorge the blasphemous one I cannot go there. We have the ICKSP but they are worse. I tried to go to an SSPV chapel but before the Mass the priest took me aside and told me if I accept the Thuc line I should refrain from communion! Not a lot to do but watch SGG on line every Sunday I think there is a real opportunity for expansion into this area by. Sedevacantist clergy.Too bad Bishop Kelly has to be , well maybe when the SSPV comes under new management things will change.

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    1. Accepting the Thuc line does not prevent you from receiving Holy Communion. They have no right to ask, nor to deny you the Sacraments. If there is a different priest there, I would go and receive Communion.

      I personally think that you can attend an SSPX Mass as long as the priest is valid as they are not (yet) in actual union with Bergoglio. If your conscience tells you otherwise, so be it. Have you thought about asking the CMRI to send a priest once a month in your area? If you can get a group of Traditionalists together and will pay for his travel (and put him up for the night), they might send one with a portable altar.

      God bless you!

      ---Introibo

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  7. Thanks, I just found it here.

    Now, I hear people talking here and there about some SSPX priests coming in from a Diocese who were not conditionally (re-)ordained.

    Is there a list of them available anywhere?

    When I started going to the SSPX and met the various Priests for the firsst time, I casually asked them about how they came to be a member of the SSPX, why they are not FSSP or Novus Ordo, and their ordination. All those I have met are properly ordained.

    Do you know of any faithful who attend SSPX masses, are sedevacantist, and who are refused the sacraments as a result?

    I was advised by a sedevacantist who goes to the SSPX mass and he said it's best to keep your sede position to yourself in SSPX circles.

    I would like to know if anyone has a list of those SSPX priests whose ordination is doubtful or valid, coming from the Novus Ordo.

    Thanks again!

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    1. Mike,
      I don't know of any such list as to who was and was not conditionally ordained. Quite frankly, I don't think they would keep one, as it goes against the "party line" that all ordinations pre and post V2 are valid. I've heard of sedes being denied Communion, but don't know any personally. It will probably get worse as they near an agreement with Frankie and become part of the false V2 sect.

      ---Introibo

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  8. If a validly ordained Priest (pre-Vatican II) is a "heretic" are his orders still valid? I may be wrong, but I understood "that once a Priest, always a Priest". Besides how can one ever REALLY know if someone is a "heretic"?

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    1. In response to your first question Joann, once a man has been validly ordained, he is a priest for all eternity. Three sacraments impress an indelible character on the soul which remains forever so the sacrament can never be repeated. They are Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders. Once baptized, always baptized. Once confirmed, always confirmed. Once a deacon always a deacon. Once a priest always a priest. Once a bishop always a bishop. (Holy Orders is one sacrament in three grades. Each grade imposes a character).

      Second, there are two types of heretics; occult (meaning "secret") and manifest (public). No one can ever be certain (without a special revelation from God) if someone is an occult heretic. Occult heretics do not lose Ecclesiastical office. Manifest heretics make their heresy public and are not willing to conform to the teaching of the Church.

      When Jorge Bergoglio publicly proclaims "there is no Catholic God" and prays with Jews and Protestants in their false religion, he has publicly declared himself a heretic who does not believe in salvation through the One True Church of Christ. He knows what the True Church infallibly declared in the past and rejects it. A manifest and contumacious heretic is not part of the Church and loses Ecclesiastical office.

      For an in depth treatment of the subject please see my post of August 22, 2016, "Heresy Is Not A Dirty Word."

      ---Introibo

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  9. Introibo -
    Thanks for the reply and read the post "Heresy Is Not A Dirty Word". I know that Jorge Bergolio is a manifest heretic. What I was referring to was a pre-Vatican II Priest with valid orders and who may be an occult "secret" heretic. In that case would he still be able to grant absolution, say a Latin Mass, and consecrate the Eucharist?

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    1. Joann,
      Yes. Any validly ordained priest (pre-V2 or Traditionalist) retains his priestly powers whether occult or manifest heretic. Since you wouldn't know that he's an occult heretic, you need not worry that any particular priest may be such. You may receive the sacraments from him and know they are valid and licit (lawful).

      The sacraments of a priest who is a manifest heretic (Feeneyite who offers the True Mass and pre-V2 sacraments) is also valid, but cannot be attended by a Traditionalist, since they are not in union with the True Church. Those sacraments are valid but illicit. They do not lead to Heaven as they were "taken" from the True Church by a priest who has no right to use them by virtue of his heresy. You would place yourself outside the Church is you received the Sacraments from him.

      So in both cases, the sacraments would be valid. In the case of the occult heretic, you may receive the sacraments since you don't know about his heresy and they DO lead to Heaven. The manifest heretic and his sacraments MUST be shunned.

      ---Introibo

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  10. Introibo -
    Thanks so very much for clarifying the above. Greatly appreciated!!!

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