Monday, July 15, 2024

Catholic To A Certain Degree? The Heretical Ecclesiology Of Vatican II

 

With all the errors of Bergoglio abounding, the Vatican II sect apologists certainly have their work cut out for them. Yet all can be traced back to one huge heresy, as the root of the bad tree bringing forth bad fruit. At the heart of the Modernist heresy that imbues the sect is the false ecclesiology taught at the Robber Council in Lumen Gentium. Ecclesiology is that branch of theology which deals with the doctrine on the nature of the One True Church. Pope Pius XII and all of his predecessors in the Petrine Office always taught that the Church of Christ is the Roman Catholic Church. 

On November 21, 1964, Montini ("Pope" Paul VI) signed and promulgated the heretical Dogmatic Constitution on the Church known as Lumen Gentium (LG). This document broke with all prior Church teaching and introduced what was to be known as "communio ecclesiology." A  new and heretical idea was adopted that the Church of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are not one and the same entity. The Church of Christ "subsists" in its fullness within the Roman Catholic Church, because it possesses all of the "elements" of the Church of Christ. However, sects have some elements of the Church of Christ which subsists there "partially." To have all the elements is best, but to have just some is very good too, and are a means of salvation. 

Paragraph #8 of LG states: This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him, although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.

My attention was recently brought to a couple of articles written last year for Crisis Magazine. The first article, written by Kennedy Hall, acknowledges the absurdity of  communio ecclesiology, yet he draws the false conclusion that the "popes" and Council which produced it cannot be illegitimate. A week later, Hall was criticized by Aaron Debusschere, who castigates Kennedy for not being Modernist enough and claims that communio theology was taught "long before Vatican II." 
(See crisismagazine.com/opinion/are-there-degrees-of-communion). 

This post will demonstrate that communio ecclesiology was never taught by the Church, and Vatican II propagated heresy, creating a new sect.  

The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ

The greatest and most comprehensive exposition of traditional ecclesiology was put forth in the encyclical Mystici Corporis Christi of His Holiness Pope Pius XII in 1943. The first sentence of said encyclical begins with the following affirmation: The doctrine of the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, was first taught us by the Redeemer Himself. Hence, the doctrine is from Christ and is therefore true. The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ. The One True Church of Christ is the Catholic Church and co-extensive with it. 

In order to be a member of the Church, four conditions must obtain: Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.(para. #22; Emphasis mine).  A member of the Catholic Church must therefore be (1) baptized, (2) profess the true Faith (not heretics), (3) not separated from unity (not schismatics) and (4) not excluded by legitimate authority (not excommunicated). 

Those are the members of the Church. As the encyclical explains, a person can be united to the Church by a desire to belong:

As you know, Venerable Brethren, from the very beginning of Our Pontificate, We have committed to the protection and guidance of heaven those who do not belong to the visible Body of the Catholic Church, solemnly declaring that after the example of the Good Shepherd We desire nothing more ardently than that they may have life and have it more abundantly. Imploring the prayers of the whole Church We wish to repeat this solemn declaration in this Encyclical Letter in which We have proclaimed the praises of the "great and glorious Body of Christ" and from a heart overflowing with love We ask each and every one of them to correspond to the interior movements of grace, and to seek to withdraw from that state in which they cannot be sure of their salvation. For even though by an unconscious desire and longing they have a certain relationship with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer, they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church. (para. #103). 

These are not members of the Church, but they are within the Church by desire, but cannot be assured of remaining within the Church unto salvation for they are deprived of "those many heavenly gifts and helps" only available to members of the Church. Remember, the dogma is "Outside the Church, No Salvation," and not "Without Church Membership, No Salvation." 

This is summarized perfectly by theologian Hanahoe:

...in order to be saved, a person must in fact (in re) be visibly conjoined to the Church, i.e., be a member, or, he must, at least intend (in voto) to become a member of the Church. This intention to become a member of the Church may be explicit or implicit. The intention is explicit when a person is actually under instruction preparing to enter Catholic unity [i.e., catechumen]. On the other hand the intention is implicit if a person, while invincibly ignorant of the Church, possesses sanctifying grace. The fact that he is in the state of grace indicates that he has a sincere will of using all the means which God has established; even though he does not know explicitly single means, he implicitly receives all. This person is then unknowingly participating in the life of the Church---he is saved through the Church. 

Pius IX indicates what may well be considered an implicit intention of entering the Catholic Church:

There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments. (Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, para. #7). 

(See Catholic Ecumenism, [1953], pg. 108; Emphasis in original). 

It must be noted that what matters is what state the soul is in at the moment of death. "But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved." (St. Matthew 24:13). God can infuse anything lacking in such a person (Divine light of faith and grace) prior to the moment of death, ensuring salvation. Theologian Hanahoe goes on to explain exactly how hard it is for those within the Church, and not members, to be saved:

However, the position of such a person is not completely secure, because once his initial ignorance is no longer invincible and his conscience, under grace, moves him to enter the Church, or at least, study its claims, then the issue is formally presented to him. If he refuses to examine further or does not seek to enter the Church, his implicit intention is dissolved, because he has withdrawn himself from the sincere will of using all the means which God wills; his condition is changed because his will towards God is changed. If he perseveres in this condition he cannot be saved. (Ibid; Emphasis in original).

Does this mean that those who are within the Church by desire are "partially" Catholic? Debusschere, cited above, seems to think so:

Thus, for [theologian] Fenton and the neo-scholastics of the pre-conciliar era, they may not be members of the Church—this is black and white—but they do belong to the Church and are even within the Church. Such ones must have some degree of communion with the Church that is not “full.”

Wrong. There are members of the Church and those united in desire. Both are within the Church; some by virtue of baptism as members, and some by virtue of votum or desire. If they did not belong to the Church, salvation would be impossible. Hence, the difference is in the mode of belonging, not by degree or being "partially" in the Church. Note well, that those who are within the Church implicitly are there in spite of their adherence to a false religion and their  ignorance of the One True Church, not because of it. This teaching will change drastically at Vatican II. 

Here is an exemplary summation of Mystici Corporis by theologian King:

Thus the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are identical; the importance of the visible aspect of the Church is not to be minimized; all salvation is caused by the visible Church; there is a sharp distinction between membership and being  related to [within] the Church by desire, though in a given case either can suffice for salvation. (The Necessity of the Church for Salvation in Selected Theological Writings of the Past Century, [1960], pg. 286; Emphasis mine).

The Modernist Attack on Ecclesiology Pre-Vatican II

With the ink on the document barely dry after the signing of Mystici Corporis, the attack on ecclesiology by the Modernist theologians began. The Holy Father hit back a mere seven years later with another theological masterpiece, the encyclical Humani Generis, in 1950. Its purpose was to condemn "some false opinions threatening to undermine the foundations of Catholic Doctrine." 

In paragraph number 27, Pope Pius XII writes:

Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the Sources of Revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing. Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation. Others finally belittle the reasonable character of the credibility of Christian faith.

According to theologian King:

...the Holy Father regards these two errors as connected so that "meaningless formula" would, sometimes at least, involve incorrect notions concerning the identity of the Roman Catholic Church and the Mystical Body. By dissociating these two concepts, the former is easily made to appear as inconsequential. 

How can a theologian separate these two concepts? One such way is to:

...overvalue the "Catholic elements" present in non-Catholic religions, considering them means of salvation in themselves. This would effectively reduce the doctrine to a meaningless formula, since there would be no urgent necessity for union with the Roman Catholic Church.  (Ibid, pgs. 290-291; Emphasis mine). 

Also a problem was Leonard Feeney, a Jesuit priest who would react to the Modernists with a heresy that now bears his name: Feeneyism. Feeney was excommunicated in 1953 for denying Baptism of Desire (BOD) and Baptism of Blood (BOB). According to him, no one could be within the Church by desire---not even explicitly. Salvation could only be achieved by Church membership through water Baptism. 

The Modernists would have their day at Vatican II.

It Depends On What You Mean By "Is"

Vatican II sect apologists, like "ecclesiastical Bill Clintons" are telling us the change at the Robber Council from "is" to "subsists in" mean the same thing. (N. B. In August of 1998, then President Bill Clinton was asked whether the statement by his lawyer, Robert S. Bennett, to Judge Susan Webber Wright that, "there is absolutely no sex of any kind in any manner, shape or form, with President Clinton [and Monica Lewinsky]" was truthful, Bill Clinton replied, "It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is." Clinton explained that if "is" meant "never has been" that is one thing; but, if "is" meant "there is none currently" then the statement by Mr. Bennett was the truth).

First, why the change of the verb? Why not say that the Catholic Church is the One True Church of Jesus Christ as was always done prior to LG in 1964? The original schema on the Church used "is" until the Modernists scrapped it with the help of Roncalli (John XXIII). The reason is summed up in a single word: Ecumenism. Not Catholic ecumenism properly understood, but Modernist ecumenism which seeks to make a one-world religion stripped of the supernatural and ends up being little more than atheism in lofty sounding language. (Read the great Pope St. Pius X's encyclical Pascendi Domenici Gregis to understand the goals of the Modernists). 

Yet Vatican II apologists will insist that "subsists in" really means "is" but in a more precise manner. The following facts give the lie to that contention. Vatican II introduces two heretical novelties: (1) The Church of Christ is NOT co-extensive with the Catholic Church, but is found in false religions, and (2) because of this, the false religion itself--as a corporate body--is a "means of salvation." Remember what was said above, that it is ERROR to "...overvalue the "Catholic elements" present in non-Catholic religions, considering them means of salvation in themselves. This would effectively reduce the doctrine to a meaningless formula, since there would be no urgent necessity for union with the Roman Catholic Church."

The teaching of Vatican II in Unitatis Reditegratio para. #3, brings the teaching of Lumen Gentium to its logical conclusion:
For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them [false religions] as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church. (Emphasis mine). 

The Church has never taught that false religions, as corporate bodies, can help anyone achieve salvation. Quite to the contrary, they are means of damnation.  


Heretical Theologians Admit the Difference and Rejoice

Avery Dulles

For ecumenical reasons the council distanced itself from the more controversial affirmations of Mystici corporis. Where Pius XII had said that the Mystical Body and the Roman Catholic Church were one and the same thing, Vatican II contented itself with saying that the Church of Christ "subsists in" the Roman Catholic Church—an expression deliberately chosen to allow for the ecclesial reality of other Christian communities. At various points the council seemed to imply that non-Catholic Christians are members of the Body of Christ, and thus of the Church. (See Theological Studies 50 (1989), "A Half Century of Ecclesiology," pg. 430; Emphasis mine). 

Francis Sullivan

(N.B. Fr. Tromp, discussed below, was an approved theologian and anti-Modernist at the Council. Vatican II apologists will state that since theologian Tromp was one of the major drafters of LG and thought "subsists in" could be orthodox, it must be. They are wrong. Tromp was trying to keep out an even more perverse definition of the Modernists and thought "subsists" could be accepted). 

The doctrinal commission accepted Tromp’s suggestion to say subsistit in. Becker argues that it also accepted his understanding of it. But in fact there is good evidence that it did not agree with his understanding of it. For, having accepted the change from est to subsistit in, the doctrinal commission went on to approve another change that the sub-commission had made in the section dealing with the various ways in which the Catholic Church knows itself to be joined with other Christians. The 1963 draft had said of them: “They lovingly believe in Christ, Son of God and Savior, they are sealed with indelible baptism, indeed they recognize and receive all or at least some of the sacraments.” The revised text said: “They are sealed with baptism, by which they are joined with Christ, and indeed they recognize and receive other sacraments in their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities.” The two previous drafts had recognized the presence of sacraments outside the Catholic Church.

Here, for the first time, a conciliar text uses the terms “Churches” and “ecclesiastical” of the communities in which those sacraments are received. The Relatio given for this text shows that the doctrinal commission realized that this language, of which Tromp could hardly have approved, needed to be justified. It said: “The elements that are mentioned regard not only individuals, but also communities; precisely in this fact is located the foundation of the ecumenical movement. Papal documents regularly speak of the separated eastern ‘Churches.’ For Protestants the recent Pontiffs use the term ‘Christian communities.’” If one considers the fact that the draft in which est had been changed to subsistit in was the first one that spoke of “Churches” and “ecclesiastical communities” that are found outside the Catholic Church, one can hardly escape the conclusion that the doctrinal commission did not agree with Tromp, who had forcefully insisted that subsistit in must be understood to be exclusivism, with the consequence that outside the Catholic Church there could be nothing but elements.  (See Theological Studies 67 (2006), "QUAESTIO DISPUTATA A RESPONSE TO KARL BECKER, S.J., ON THE MEANING OF SUBSISTIT IN," pgs. 400-401; Emphasis mine).

Joseph Ratzinger (later "Pope" Benedict XVI):

In an interview to the German newspaper, Frankfurter Allgemeine, at that time "Cardinal" Ratzinger states:


When the Council Fathers replace the word "is," used by Pius XII, with the word "subsistit," they did so for a very precise reason. The concept expressed by "is" (to be) is far broader than that expressed by "to subsist." "To subsist" is a very precise way of being, that is, to be as a subject, which exists in itself. Thus the Council Fathers meant to say: the being of the Church as such extends much further than the Roman Catholic Church, but within the latter it acquires, in an incomparable way, the character of a true and proper subject. (Emphasis mine). 

As "pope," Ratzinger approved a document of the Modernist Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (sic) on July 10, 2007 entitled Responses to some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church. Over forty years after Lumen Gentium, he's still trying to tell us "subsists" means "is." It reads:

In number 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, "subsistence" means this perduring, historical continuity and the permanence of all the elements instituted by Christ in the Catholic Church,  in which the Church of Christ is concretely found on this earth. It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them. Nevertheless, the word "subsists" can only be attributed to the Catholic Church alone precisely because it refers to the mark of unity that we profess in the symbols of the faith (I believe... in the "one" Church); and this "one" Church subsists in the Catholic Church. (Emphasis mine)

We now have what an authoritative decision from a man the Vatican II apologists recognize as "pope." He regurgitates the same "elements" nonsense as in Lumen Gentium, and the text makes clear that the Church of Christ is not identical to the Catholic Church! The "Church of Christ" is concretely found on this earth in the Catholic Church, but it is (allegedly) possible for the Church of Christ to be present in the "churches" not yet "fully in communion" with the Catholic Church because of the "elements" of sanctification that they possess. Interestingly, the document does not cite to one single pre-Vatican II source--and with good reason. There is no Catholic doctrine before Vatican II which supports any of this novel (and heretical) teaching. 

Another Nail in the "Subsists in" Coffin: The Magisterium Cannot Teach Ambiguously

Pope Pius VI taught in Auctorum Fidei, of August 28, 1794:

In order not to shock the ears of Catholics, the innovators sought to hide the subtleties of their tortuous maneuvers by the use of seemingly innocuous words such as would allow them to insinuate error into souls in the most gentle manner. Once the truth had been compromised, they could, by means of slight changes or additions in phraseology, distort the confession of the faith that is necessary for our salvation, and lead the faithful by subtle errors to their eternal damnation. This manner of dissimulating and lying is vicious, regardless of the circumstances under which it is used. For very good reasons it can never be tolerated in a synod of which the principal glory consists above all in teaching the truth with clarity and excluding all danger of error.

 Moreover, if all this is sinful, it cannot be excused in the way that one sees it being done, under the erroneous pretext that the seemingly shocking affirmations in one place are further developed along orthodox lines in other places, and even in yet other places corrected; as if allowing for the possibility of either affirming or denying the statement, or of leaving it up the personal inclinations of the individual – such has always been the fraudulent and daring method used by innovators to establish error. It allows for both the possibility of promoting error and of excusing it.

It is as if the innovators pretended that they always intended to present the alternative passages, especially to those of simple faith who eventually come to know only some part of the conclusions of such discussions, which are published in the common language for everyone's use. Or again, as if the same faithful had the ability on examining such documents to judge such matters for themselves without getting confused and avoiding all risk of error. It is a most reprehensible technique for the insinuation of doctrinal errors and one condemned long ago by our predecessor St. Celestine who found it used in the writings of Nestorius, bishop of Constantinople, and which he exposed in order to condemn it with the greatest possible severity. Once these texts were examined carefully, the impostor was exposed and confounded, for he expressed himself in a plethora of words, mixing true things with others that were obscure; mixing at times one with the other in such a way that he was also able to confess those things which were denied while at the same time possessing a basis for denying those very sentences which he confessed.

 In order to expose such snares, something which becomes necessary with a certain frequency in every century, no other method is required than the following: Whenever it becomes necessary to expose statements that disguise some suspected error or danger under the veil of ambiguity, one must denounce the perverse meaning under which the error opposed to Catholic truth is camouflaged. The more freely We embraced a program of complete moderation, the more we foresaw.  (Emphasis mine).

On this basis alone, Lumen Gentium can be dismissed, as almost six decades later, there are "explanations" from "theologians" trying to tell us the "true meaning." We are told "subsists" is a more powerful expression of "is" and nothing has changed--Bill Clinton couldn't have said it more disingenuously.

The Teaching of the One True Church

Here is the correct teaching on ecclesiology:

Pope Pius IX: None [of  false sects], not even taken as a whole, constitutes in any way and are not that one, Catholic Church founded and made by Our Lord and which He wished to create. Further, one cannot say in any way that these societies are either members or parts of that same Church, because they are visibly separated from Catholic Unity(See Iam vos omnes #3; Emphasis mine). 

Pope Leo XIII: Jesus Christ never conceived of nor instituted a Church formed of many communities which were brought together by certain general traits - but which would be distinct one from another and not bound together among themselves by ties which make the Church one and indivisible - since we clearly profess in the Creed of our Faith: " 'I believe in one...Church.' (See Satis Cognitum #4; Emphasis mine). 

Pope Pius XI: It is absurd and ridiculous to say that the Mystical Body can be formed out of separated and disjunctive members, whosoever therefore is not united with the body is no member of it, neither is he in communion with Christ its head. (See Mortalium Animos #10; Emphasis mine)

  • False sects do not help you to Heaven. If you have all the parts of a car engine except the battery, it takes you no place. Having 99% of a car engine is just as bad as having none. You don't have a working automobile. Likewise, the "elements of sanctification" are all necessary for salvation. Whatever Bible, valid sacraments, Creed, etc., is used by false sects, they are not efficacious unto sanctification and salvation because they are as stolen goods that are not meant to be used outside the One True Church. 
Pope Pius XI:  The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship. This is the fount of truth, this the house of Faith, this the temple of God: if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. Let none delude himself with obstinate wrangling. For life and salvation are here concerned, which will be lost and entirely destroyed, unless their interests are carefully and assiduously kept in mind. (See Mortalium Animos #11)

Pope Leo XIII: The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium. (See Satis Cognitum #9)

  • The True Church already possesses fullness of unity. It is not "divided," "separated," or "wounded" because of those who are not united and form false sects. The Church is One. She does not "need" the return of those outside Her fold; they need Her. False sects are just that--sects or groups of people with no right to exist. They are not a "church" and God does not recognize them. 
Pope Pius XI: And here it seems opportune to expound and to refute a certain false opinion, on which this whole question, as well as that complex movement by which non-Catholics seek to bring about the union of the Christian churches depends. For authors who favor this view are accustomed, times almost without number, to bring forward these words of Christ: "That they all may be one.... And there shall be one fold and one shepherd," with this signification however: that Christ Jesus merely expressed a desire and prayer, which still lacks its fulfillment. (See Mortalium Animos #7).

Pope Pius XII: Also they must restrain that dangerous manner of speaking which generates false opinions and fallacious hopes incapable of realization; for example, to the effect that the teachings of the Encyclicals of the Roman Pontiffs on the return of dissidents to the Church, on the constitution of the Church, on the Mystical Body of Christ, should not be given too much importance seeing that they are not all matters of faith, or, what is worse, that in matters of dogma even the Catholic Church has not yet attained the fullness of Christ, but can still be perfected by other religions. (See Instruction "On the Ecumenical Movement" by the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, December 20, 1949).

Finally, it must be remembered that while someone may be within the Church who is not a member, that is only known to God in the internal forum. Baptism of Desire is a rare miracle of grace and must not be presumed. Hence, the need for the Great Commission. 

Conclusion
It should be clear that the Church has never taught "partial communion" until Vatican II. The Vatican II sect is an ecumenical, Modernist monstrosity. Anyone who thinks they can be "partially Catholic," will be totally lost. 

77 comments:

  1. Great writing exposing the Vatican Two Sect.

    You really do your research . I am new to this site and attend the SSPV.

    Do you have a good personal library at home . How many books would you have ? I have just started building a good collection and have just over three hundred . Do you have many that were written for priests ?

    God bless
    James

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. James, a book I would highly recommend for your library and reading which supports this article, would be
      “The Work of Human Hands” by Father Anthony Cekada

      Delete
    2. James,
      I have a personal library with several thousand titles I've collected over the years. Most are for priests and academics. I agree with @anon9:27 that Fr. Cekada's book is outstanding. As a good beginning for Dogmatic Theology, I recommend theologian Ott "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma." For beginning Moral Theology, theologian Jone, "Moral Theology." I love the SSPV.

      Glad you found my blog, and I hope you find it useful/informative!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    3. Your many theological references are one reason why this blog is a good reference for former Novus Ordo who have become Catholics and want to form themselves in Catholicism (add Novus Ordo Watch to that). You may not be a theologian, but you have a solid knowledge of theology !

      Delete
    4. Simon,
      Thank you, my friend! I owe my knowledge base to the late, great Fr. Gommar A. DePauw, JCD.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    5. I second what Simon said. Your knowledge of theology, good will, and lawyerly mind is a great combination to anticipate and refute objections like the great Saint Thomas. The key, unlike other lawyers, is your intellectual honesty.

      Delete
    6. John,
      Thank you for the kind words, my friend!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  2. Magnificent!!! Thanks so much for this article Intriobo!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. John,
      Thank you, my friend! Understanding the heretical ecclesiology enables one to understand the "why" behind everything else the V2 sect does.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  3. It's not the only such error of V2 ("subsists"), but I might subtitle this "From 'Subsists' To 'Great Babylon' Of Apocalypse: A Really Bad Ecumenical Journey".

    For sure all false sects will subsist in the V2 construct: " And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen: and is become the habitation of devils and the hold of every unclean spirit and the hold of every unclean and hateful bird:" (Apoc. 18: 2).

    Great article which really completes the subject.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. cairsahr__stjoseph
      You got that right---from false ecclesiology to false everything--including all false religions "subsisting" in it!

      God Bless you, my friend!

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  4. Can someone please write an article about theological notes or recommend a book about it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon11:15
      I can make that a possible post this year. For a good and brief overview, see theologian Ott, "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma."

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  5. Great post ! Catholic teaching is always clear and precise, but it's too much for modernists because they don't believe in what the Church has always taught.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Simon,
      You're right; the Vatican II sect stands for everything and anything EXCEPT Catholicism!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  6. These are my favorite kind of articles because they show the difference between the new religion of Vatican II and the Catholic religion of all time. They are not the same in faith or in practice.

    Lee

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lee,
      Thank you, my friend! Indeed, it can never be said enough that the Vatican II sect is NOT the Catholic Church.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  7. Excellent, Introibo. It is great to see the sound theology that undermines the false theology of the Robber Council.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon3:50
      Thank you! I'm glad you find it useful--it keeps me writing.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  8. Hello Introibo

    You say you love the SSPV . Have you found it's priests well formed in the Faith , canon law , etc ?

    I am a convert to the True Faith and attend a CMRI Church in MN . I have to say it's priests are very hardworking and if needed will drive hundreds of miles to visit one soul in need . Talking to folk here who have been here a long time have said how the CMRI has really grown in the last decade . They and Bishop Pivarunas are really being blessed .

    On a different subject , don't you think the folk at the Novus Ordo EWTN network are so blind .They need our prayers to wake up and realise they are in a false Church which I was a former member .

    I always enjoy the comments of good Simon and Lee . Have not heard from Andrew for a while .

    Thank you Introibo for this blog . A real voice of Truth .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon4:57
      1. With a solitary exception, I find all the SSPV priests to be excellent. Both bishops are also well-informed and striving for holiness.

      2. The priests from the CMRI with whom I've had contact are good and holy priests.

      3. EWTN is there to keep people in the Vatican II sect. We must pray for them, and those whom they deceive, to wake up.

      4. Thank you for the kind words. Believe me, on difficult days, comments like yours and those above keep me writing!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  9. Introibo

    Regarding the SSPV . Our only concerns are the following

    *Father Joseph Greenwell . Our view is he is very sloppy the way he says Mass . It's as if he doe's not really care . Has anyone ever made a comment before about him?

    *Father William Jenkins . His rejection of the Thuc Clerics such as CMRI ,etc .He should answer page by page of Mario Derkson's study . This petty trash has gone on for years and needs to stop . Introibo , why do you think Father Jenkins will not admit he is wrong (pride?) Reading Mario Derkson's study ,we were shocked to read that Father William Jenkins in his anti Thuc writings removed certain passages from quotes he was using . This is so wrong . Watch the debate he had with Father Anthony Cekada . He had no documents to give people . Look at the material that Father Anthony Cekada was handing out .

    Listening to a recent What Catholics Believe program , Father William Jenkins was calling Bishop Donald Sanborn - Father Sanborn. He also was calling Bishop Richard Williamson - Father Williamson as if he was calling into doubt his valid consecration from Archbishop Lefebvre. We could not believe it .

    The SSPV clerics should know that a number of their faithful when out of town do go to Thuc Clergy .

    The above comment this is a Voice of Truth blog . We give it 150 % . You do a outstanding job . Thank you so much .

    God bless and our Lady watch over you always

    T and M

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    1. I was heartbroken when I first became a sede and found out SSPV would not give me Communion. If they are right, ok. If there not, isn't this schism? Williamson, l learned he is a Bishop but I don't think he's Catholic.

      Many non Catholics are Bishops. Shouldn't a caveat be used to warn Catholics?

      Delete
    2. @T and M
      1. Fr. Greenwell was the one priest of the SSPV whom I don't think is excellent. I was glad when he left NY. He offers Mass in such a rushed manner that he can't possibly have any devotion, and quite frankly, it is a disgrace. Had he been in a pre-V2 seminary, he never would have been ordained. Fr. DePauw, who was in charge of the seminary for the Archdiocese of Baltimore, would never have let someone like that get to ordination. The joke in NY was that if you arrived 5 minutes late for his Mass, he would be up to the Last Gospel.
      CONTINUED BELOW

      Delete
    3. My biggest concern was him speaking so fast that he sometimes garbled the words of the Mass. Some words of the prayers at the foot of the altar were NOT clear to me. The scary part was at the Consecration. There are 22 Latin words that comprise the form to effectuate Transubstantiation. The Church has never defined if the so-called "short form" ("This is My Blood") suffices for validity. Hence, to be sure of a valid Mass, 21 of the 22 words must be pronounced. (The Church has declared the word "enim" meaning "for" is NOT essential to the form).

      I was at one of Fr. Greenwell's Masses and timed him from when he bent over the Chalice until he rose to genuflect. It was FOUR SECONDS. The rubrics demand the Words of Consecration to be recited secretly (in the quietest tone of voice), distinctly, and attentively. Did he get the words right?!? Did he garble them and throw the whole validity of the Mass into question?

      Some theologians teach that if God knows that the Consecration of the Wine will be invalid, He will withhold the Transubstantiation of the bread since the sacrament of the Eucharist cannot be separated from the unbloody Sacrifice of the Cross, re-presented through time and space by the dual consecration.

      His knowledge of theology is sub-par (to be charitable). When Greenwell was asked by a parishioner (point blank) "Do you use the name of John Paul II in the Canon?" He replied, "It's MY MASS and none of your business." Really? Greenwell's Mass is it? No, it's the Sacrifice of the Church and not the "personal property" of the offering priest. It is CHRIST who offers that Mass through His priests. You have a right to know if your priest (a) holds the sedevacantist position and (b) what names (if any) he uses in the Canon--even as I have no problem with the so-called "Una Cum."

      Greenwell aside, all Traditionalist priests I've seen offer Mass have done so in an edifying manner worthy of the greatest act in the universe. However, none match or exceed the devotion and precision of Fr. DePauw. He had a sign in the sanctuary which read: "Priest of Christ: Offer this Mass as if it were your FIRST MASS, your LAST MASS, your ONLY MASS."

      In my opinion, Bp. Carol and Bp. Santay should address this serious problem with Fr. Greenwell and tell him to shape up or ship out.

      2. Fr. Jenkins is a good priest who is mistaken on the Thuc issue. Why he clings to it so tenaciously, I don't know.

      3. Some do call into question Bp. Williamson's consecration because of the false idea that Abp. Lefebvre only placed one hand on the head of Williamson during the Consecration, which they allege is a defect in matter (which they declare must be two hands).

      The same claptrap was used against Bp. Dolan (that he wasn't a priest or bishop) by two defunct blogs (The Lay Pulpit and Pistrina Liturgica) written by an individual whose assessment of himself vastly exceeded reality. This individual declared on his blogs that Dolan was ordained with one hand, and as a result, he was never a priest and could not become a bishop.

      As to Dolan, it it theologically incorrect that two hands are necessary. Yet, even IF such were the case, when I pressed the blogger to give the name of JUST ONE WITNESS that one hand was used (he claimed he had "several witnesses") he could not do so.

      Once more, the idea of two hands being necessary for validity is theologically incorrect. In the case of Bp. Williamson, even IF one hand was used, Bp. De Castro Meyer would have supplied for the defect. Case closed.

      4. The SSPV is different from what was in the past. If you don't tell them you go to a "Thuc priest" --they don't ask. This comes from my considerable experience with their clergy since circa 1991.

      Thank you for your kind words!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    4. John Raymond,
      Bp. Williamson has strange ideas that confuse many. He is, however, Catholic. I know him personally, and he is as strange as he is arrogant and condescending.

      I don't think you'll have those problems with the SSPV if you don't mention anything about "Thuc clergy."

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  10. I suspect you might have had a year or two in seminary? I think this of others, like Mario.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. John Raymond,
      I was never a seminarian.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  11. So, I was born in 1960. I always spotted horrors in what my supposed Catholic teachers said. I wanted to find Catholic teaching, "what Rome had spoken" as my Dad would say. A catechism would have been great, but I never received. I'm guessing I had implicit desire? But I had mortal sin? So I'm guessing I would have been damned if I had died back then?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. John Raymond,
      Only God knows that answer. The fact that you are now a Traditionalist means you used all the means and grace God gave you to enter the One True Church. That's what really counts! Let us all pray for the grace of Final Perseverance.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  12. Introibo

    Regarding the SSPV . I agree with Anonymous 1.16am .

    How about the then Father Kelly spreading falsehood that the then Father Dolan was ordained with only one hand by Archbishop Lefebvre so he was a doubtful priest .How about the SSPV telling folk that Mount Saint Michael's and CMRI is and will always be an Old Catholic Sect .The SSPV has caused much pain and infighting in families here in Ohio since 1989.Pages could be written . I think Father Cekada did a great job in his debate with Father Jenkins and solid document proof that he gave out .

    I agree with Raymond about Bishop Williamson . He has some strange idea's and has confused folk .



    ReplyDelete
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    1. @anon2:13
      Is the SSPV perfect? No. However, they have grown as a Society and have left much of the wrong behind. Today, I find them to be sincere and holy clergy. The CMRI was very bad at the beginning, but are now top rate as well.

      Bp. Williamson is truly Catholic, but very eccentric and full of himself. He has confused many.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. @anon2:13

      Do you know if Fr. Greenwell has improved with regard to saying the Mass and especially the consecration since he left NY? Hopefully so.

      Delete
    3. @anon9:40
      I have no idea. I can only hope the issue was addressed and corrected. The laity in Ohio should petition the SSPV bishops to speak with him if he has not improved.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  13. Introibo

    Thanks for your info about the SSPV . Can you ever see them changing their view on the Thuc Clerics in years to come ?

    Look at the Daughters of Mary and so many vocations .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon8:18
      De facto, it has changed. If you say nothing, they do not press the issue. Will they formally retract it? Probably not in the foreseeable future, but I hope I'm wrong.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  14. Hi Introibo

    May God be praised now and forever

    Good info about the SSPV. From what I have heard elsewhere they no longer make the anti - Thuc Holy Communion announcement from the Sunday pulpit .I could be wrong.Do you get the Roman Catholic magazine ?Years ago did you ever have a subscription to Catholic Family News( did have some good but also half truth's )I agree with the above comment about the Daughters of Mary . They are growing so fast.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. @anon8:45
      1. There are no anti-Thuc announcements in NY.

      2. I have some of the issues of the Roman Catholic Magazine, which is excellent.

      3. The Daughters of Mary are growing. It's a testament to the general excellence of the SSPV.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  15. Do you or anyone else know who was the person behind the blogs Pistrina Liturgica and the Lay Pulpit . Reading their views they had a sick and unkind mind . Do you think they were a former seminarian ? They had the idea that Saint Gertrude the Great Church would die which nas never happened .
    I was in Walmart this afternoon and just looking at folk in the stores it is just scary how far gone folk are . No manners , sewer talk . We are in very bad times .Keep up the prayers everyone.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon9:37
      I know the identity of the person. As this person is elderly and his identity is known by few, I will not say who it is. The blogs are defunct, and I hop he repents. It would be wrong to disturb his peace and have people angry with him--even if such response would have been justified when he was actively writing.

      Yes, we are in very bad times indeed!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  16. “These men seek to reconcile Christ and Belial, the Church of God and the state without God.” – Pope Leo XIII

    Introibo, wonderful post! Thank you for your efforts.

    The modernists have been very successful in fooling people into believing there is “no urgent necessity for union with the Roman Catholic Church.”

    As shown in your article, I love how the popes were so clear in their teachings! Some of my favorites from above:

    “…the innovators sought to hide the subtleties of their tortuous maneuvers… This manner of dissimulating and lying is vicious…”

    “…one cannot say in any way that these societies are either members or parts of that same Church…”

    “The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship. … Let none delude himself with obstinate wrangling.”

    I very much like the likening of Vatican II sect apologists to “ecclesiastical Bill Clintons”.

    God Bless,
    -Seeking Truth

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Seeking Truth,
      Always glad when people see the truth of the Faith through my writing! The Church, as you correctly stated, teaches clearly. Can anyone say that about Vatican II and the so-called "popes" of the Robber Council?

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  17. Introibo! What is your opinion of the text entitled THE DUBIETY OF ORDINATION CONFERRED WITH ONE HAND published as I Reckon under the auspices of Pistrina and Lay Pulpit?
    https://www.scribd.com/document/249350348/Dubiety-of-Ordination-of-Conferred-with-One-Hand

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon12:19
      It's a piece of calumnious garbage and second-rate sophistical theology. Going back nine years ago, I wrote several posts against PL and LP--(the same guy I found out). Here is one of my posts:

      https://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2015/08/to-counsel-doubtful-and-instruct.html

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  18. Excellent article. It is crystal clear that NuChurch and FalsePope teach one heresy after another, yet so many Catholics continue to seek their recognition.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Tom,
      It is very sad. Let's be glad we received and responded to the grace to see the truth!

      God Bless, my friend,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  19. Also I would say that Pistrina's and Lay Pulpit's long battle and reminding about the scandalous stance of Bp Sanborn and fr cekada on the Terri schiavo case as well as the 2009 sgg School scandal Has Been very important. Bp Dolan and fr cekada tolerating the scandalizing of little ones by tolerating pornography... And bishop Sanborn aiding and abetting them and patronizing Bernie brueggermann on his infamous letter... If we need something more not to trust these individuals, please tell me. Isn't that enough not to have any connection with them? THE ABOVEMENTIONED SCANDALS ARE FACTS. And the culprits never said sorry, never explained, never recanted. Nonwithstanding all the great sermons of bp Sanborn and the test of his works, until he explains the aforementioned deeds, he should be shunned IMHO.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon1:04
      I know nothing of the alleged SGG "scandal" and will not discuss it. The willingness of PL (and LP) to lie and twist facts to make Traditionalists stay away from clerics he dislikes, is enough to cast doubt on all his claims.

      For the record, I have had major and serious disagreements with Fr. Cekada (RIP) and Bp. Dolan (RIP). Those disagreements include:

      * Calling the Pre-Pian Holy Week "Bugnini Free" clearly implying that the Holy Week services were the product of a Freemason and "became evil" when it is easily demonstrated to be incorrect.

      * Defending the MURDER of Terri Schiavo

      * Making up the "Una Cum" sin

      * Declaring that a Traditionalist, in danger of death, and having access only to a valid SSPX priest, may receive the Last Rites but NOT Holy Viaticum because It is somehow "tainted" by the "Una Cum" Mass

      That having been said, Fr. Cekada's writings helped popularize sedevacantism in the 1990s. When I became a Traditionalist in 1981, the sede position was considered almost scandalous, and held by a very few. By 1999 all that had changed. Unfortunately, Fr. Cekada became the very "follow me or die" clergyman he once abhorred.

      If someone wants to deprive themselves of the Mass and sacraments from them (foolish in my opinion) or go to other clergy, that is their prerogative. However, to scare people away based on alleged "dubious orders conferred with one hand" is seriously sinful.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  20. Bishop Daniel Dolan was a modernist heretic along with quite a few others in the false “traditionalist” movement who believe you don’t need to know or believe in Christ to be saved and that the sinful birth control practice of NFP is somehow morally justified under certain conditions which totally contradicts the true teaching of The Church. These false “traditionalists” are no different from The Novus Ordo on The Salvation Dogma. They believe in Universal Salvation and these groups are always saying “we can’t judge” someone like Alistair Crowley. They’ll tell you he might have been a Catholic in the internal forum. “We just don’t know”. This is modernist garbage. These groups have been corrupted by false charity and they fall in line with Cushingite thinking which was pervasive throughout the 1940s and 1950s and they embrace this watered down “traditionalism” which was also made possible by Americanism. They have buildings, robes, and adhere to some traditional aspects of The Faith, but they don’t hold the true Faith whole and inviolate. This seems to be part of The Great Apostasy we are all living through right now. This is why I only approach some of these clergymen for the valid sacraments, as long as they are not imposing their erroneous beliefs regarding salvation on the church members, but I do not support them with donations.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. @anon6:22
      Ah, a Feeneyite! From the syntax, and recycled "arguments" a disciple of Fred and Bobby Dimond.

      1. If you read the post above, you would know that you can belong to the Church by longing and desire. BOD and BOB were always taught by the Church, and are dogma. So no one who professes BOD and BOB is a heretic.

      2. You write, "...quite a few others in the false “traditionalist” movement who believe you don’t need to know or believe in Christ to be saved..."

      Reply: No one claims this; God can enlighten the mind and infuse both the Faith and sanctifying grace as necessary, prior to the moment of death. They die within the Church.

      3. You write, "... the sinful birth control practice of NFP is somehow morally justified under certain conditions which totally contradicts the true teaching of The Church."

      Reply: Periodic abstinence has always been permitted by the Church. That some abuse it; CONCEDED, that it is intrinsically sinful and wrong; DENIED.

      4. You write, "These false “traditionalists” are no different from The Novus Ordo on The Salvation Dogma. They believe in Universal Salvation and these groups are always saying “we can’t judge” someone like Alistair Crowley. They’ll tell you he might have been a Catholic in the internal forum. “We just don’t know”. This is modernist garbage. These groups have been corrupted by false charity and they fall in line with Cushingite thinking which was pervasive throughout the 1940s and 1950s and they embrace this watered down “traditionalism” which was also made possible by Americanism."

      Reply: We cannot judge anyone in the internal forum. For example, an evil Catholic who worked as a hitman for the mob dies. Is he in Hell? We don't know. He could have cried out to Christ and made an act of perfect contrition just prior to his death. Without a special revelation from God, you don't know. We only know for certain that canonized saints are in Heaven, and we know Judas Iscariot is in Hell. The rest we don't know.

      "Cushingite thinking"? Ok, how about St. Augustine (354- 430):
      City of God:
      "I do not hesitate to place the Catholic catechumen, who is burning with the love of God, before the baptized heretic... The centurion Cornelius, before Baptism, was better than Simon [Magus], who had been baptized. For Cornelius, even before Baptism, was filled with the Holy Ghost, while Simon, after Baptism, was puffed up with an unclean spirit" (De Bapt. C. Donat., IV 21).
      "Baptism is administered invisibly to one whom not contempt of religion but death excludes." (Denzinger 388).

      That's slightly before the 1940s and 1950s, and I doubt St. Augustine knew Cardinal Cushing.

      Please read my post below for a good summation of the Feeneyite heresy:
      https://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2023/11/gen-z-feeneyites.html

      Praying for your conversion,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. The word “Feeneyite” is a slanderous and disparaging word created by Modernists and used often by false “traditionalists” like yourself in a weak attempt to delegitimize true Catholics who hold the true positions. It’s right out of The Bolshevik playbook. Modernists like Introibo, and many others out there who lead souls astray, worship the false theories of men and put their trust in buildings, cassocks, and a pseudo magisterium which directly contradicts ex cathedra teachings by Popes on The Salvation Dogma. These false “traditionalist” groups stubbornly deny Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus and don’t understand you must be a visible member of The Catholic Church before death. What you believe in is Implicit Desire of Faith for Talmudic Jews who reject Christ. You believe The Saved at Death Heresy which says John Gotti or Vinny “The Chin” Gigante are somehow enlightened in the internal forum at death and are then saved, as they die as impenitent sinners in the external forum. The Church doesn’t teach this. It never did. The modernists you follow teach this, but not The Catholic Church. “Feeneyite” is an AntiCatholic slur used by Modernists who believe people can be saved in false religions despite being in that religion. This is heresy plain and simple. They use the word “Feeneyite” to defame and vilify True Catholics who adhere to True Church Teaching. Similar to how antiwhite monsters, mostly on The political Left, use the antiwhite slur “racist” in order to disparage and harm an entire group of people (whites) based almost entirely on their immutable characteristics. This is very evil. The modernists use “Feeneyite” as a pejorative in an attempt to diminish and destroy The True Catholic position. The word Feeneyite comes from Satan’s dictionary and carries with it the spirit of antichrist when it’s used to defame true Catholics. It’s an overused and meaningless word shouted by fake Catholic bloggers and armchair theologians who can’t back up the gibberish they write. Brother Peter Dimond destroyed your arguments a few months back and he exposed the lies of Steve Speray some years ago too. Steve Speray makes Joe Biden look like a skilled debater when he opens his mouth. You are all part of the same diabolical clan of “false” traditionalists. The good news is many people, not enough, reject your lies. I know a few who attend at least one of the groups you mention in your blogs for the sacraments but reject BoD and/or NFP. These are the few who will be saved. I pray they persevere to the end. Until you become Catholic your prayers that you offered would be inefficacious. So in charity, I do pray God gives you the graces to see your errors and that you repent and convert.

      Delete
    3. @anon9:01
      I knew it! One of Bobby's benighted sycophants.

      1. You write, "The word “Feeneyite” is a slanderous and disparaging word created by Modernists"

      Reply: No. "Lutheran" properly describes a follower of the teachings of heretic Martin Luther. "Feeneyite" properly describes the followers of excommunicated heretic Leonard Feeney, who started a child-abusing cult. Yes, excommunicated for HERESY, not disobediance.

      2. You write, " These false “traditionalist” groups stubbornly deny Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus and don’t understand you must be a visible member of The Catholic Church before death."

      Reply: I subscribe to EENS as understood by the Church. Both the Council of Trent and the Universal and Ordinary Magisterium teach BOD and BOB infallibly. I'm glad you and Bobby understand these things better than St. Alphonsus Liguori, St. Augustine, Pope Pius IX, Pope St. Pius X, Pope Pius XII, etc.

      Many people WISH they could understand theology as well as two sad men in their 50s with high school educations, no ecclesiastical education or training, and like playing "Benedictines."

      3. You write, "What you believe in is Implicit Desire of Faith for Talmudic Jews who reject Christ. "

      Reply: Never said that and don't believe that.

      4. "You believe The Saved at Death Heresy which says John Gotti or Vinny “The Chin” Gigante are somehow enlightened in the internal forum at death and are then saved, as they die as impenitent sinners in the external forum. The Church doesn’t teach this. It never did. "

      Reply: Please cite where the Church teaches that those who seem to die impenitent in the external forum are known to be damned. I won't hold my breath.

      5. You write, "It’s an overused and meaningless word shouted by fake Catholic bloggers and armchair theologians who can’t back up the gibberish they write. Brother Peter Dimond destroyed your arguments a few months back and he exposed the lies of Steve Speray some years ago too. Steve Speray makes Joe Biden look like a skilled debater when he opens his mouth."

      Reply: My blog has converted several Feeneyites (Deo gratias for God using me in this way). The people who saw that post did not see Bobby winning! I'll repost it here:
      https://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2024/02/the-dimonds-ensoulment-and-baptism-of.html

      Steve is one of the most intelligent and devout Traditionalist Catholics I know. As far as Biden, he should drop Harris as VP and pick Bobby! Seriously. They both pretend to be Catholic and to understand what's going on.

      I can see it now; "Biden and Dimond--It's a No-Brainer." For their campaign song: "If I Only Had A Brain."

      6. As to debates, I challenge you to debate me on an online neutral forum. You already had your contention that BOD was some "Cushingite" novelty blown to bits with a citation to St. Augustine. Don't let that discourage you.

      Praying for your conversion (Fred and Bobby too),

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    4. The debate has already been won. The truth has been revealed by God, but you sadly reject it. Here is some more truth for the handful of readers who read your modernist writings.

      1). Your fallacious comparison between a Lutheran vs. a “Feeneyite”doesn’t work at all. Feeneyite is a Modernist word concocted and used as a verbal weapon to describe anyone who adheres to True Church teaching on Salvation Dogma after the vicious attack on Leonard Feeney and the defective and immoral excommunication that came as a result . A Bolshevik tactic if there ever was one. The strategy: Fabricate fake crime, get a false conviction without a hearing , then make up a word to defame and intimidate Catholics into accepting Universal Salvation and false theories of men. This happens after the lie has been spread far and wide, and after years of subtle and deceptive preprogramming, and then the label is legitimized by Modernists who have power inside The Church structures and by also using the fake media and other methods to further brainwash people into accepting universal salvation. Most people you call “Feeneyites” don’t even agree with Leonard Feeney on a few points like justification. The word is used to attack people who believe in Christ and the literal and dogmatic meaning of John 3:5. BOD and BOB are definitely not dogmas! “Feeneyite” is a buzzword used by unlettered modernists claiming to be “traditional”. It’s like calling Pope Eugene IV, Saint Gregory Nazianzen, Pope Siricius, and many others “Feeneyites”. Here’s a quick upcoming lesson for easily deceived and culpably ignorant Catholics on the Leonard Feeney ordeal in the next comment…

      Delete
    5. Suprema Haec Sacra is modernist filth written in common form and was never published in The Acts of The Apostolic See. It has no binding character and it is a defective letter/protocol. Leonard Feeney was charged and excommunicated for disobedience not heresy. That is irrefutable. The fact that you obstinately deny this is very telling. He was told he had to come to Rome in 1952, and there was no reason given. He was supposed to have a hearing with Cardinal Pizzardo of The Holy Office. Charges are required to be stated it’s in Canon Law. Canon 1715. He was excommunicated after his canonical rights were totally violated and he was not excommunicated for heresy. The whole process was a sham and was littered with many canonical violations. The Decree of Excommunication that came out listed “grave disobedience” no dogma was cited in the letter. There was no Holy Office Seal on it. There was no signature from the Holy Office judge. The process went against canon law and there was never a trial despite Leonard Feeney reaching out and asking for the charges and appealing. He was just ignored by these rabid wolves in sheep’s clothing. You have no argument here. The case is clear. Suprema Haec Sacra was the final step to the V2 apostate church taking over. It’s astonishing that you don’t recognize this but fall for the Modernist narrative. They’ll be more to come….

      Delete
    6. 2). Council of Trent doesn’t teach BoD at all. The catechism of Saint Peter Canisius sites The Council, he was a theologian that was there, and he explicitly teaches the literal and dogmatic teaching of John 3:5, no exceptions mentioned. BOD doesn’t provide the grace of Spiritual Rebirth/Water Baptism according to Saint Alphonsus definition of BOD. It’s de fide definita that UNLESS YOU RECEIVE THE GRACE OF SPIRITUAL REBIRTH YOU CAN NEVER BE JUSTIFIED. This is Trent referring to Water Baptism. End of story. You need Water Baptism to also have Supernatural Faith infused, there is no such thing as Pagans or Buddhists having Supernatural Faith infused in them without believing in Trinity and Incarnation and getting water baptized.

      Delete
    7. @anon6:48, @anon7:11, and anon@7:45
      Like the typical Feeneyite cultist, you regurgitate the same disproven falsehoods. I will enjoy ripping this apart (once more!). You are afraid to read Catholic sources and remain willfully in your culpable ignorance. You run away from debate because you know you cannot win and defend your beliefs. Fred and Bobby do the same. Bobby came on here and got his pseudo-intellectual head handed to him! I will debate any Feeneyite (including Fred and Bobby) in a neutral, written online forum. Yet, you all run. I will take this apart and then, no more in the comments here, unless you choose to accept my challenge to debate.
      I have approx. 40K unique readers each month, small in comparison to the world, but big enough to have an effect by the grace of God! How do you think the Church got started with 72 people—God can work wonders! Bobby himself came on here, and he wouldn’t do that if it wasn’t affecting his followers!
      1. You write: “Your fallacious comparison between a Lutheran vs. a “Feeneyite” doesn’t work at all. Feeneyite is a Modernist word concocted and used as a verbal weapon to describe anyone who adheres to True Church teaching on Salvation Dogma after the vicious attack on Leonard Feeney and the defective and immoral excommunication that came as a result …Most people you call “Feeneyites” don’t even agree with Leonard Feeney on a few points like justification…It’s like calling Pope Eugene IV, Saint Gregory Nazianzen, Pope Siricius, and many others “Feeneyites”.
      Reply: Lutherans follow not the Church but the teachings of Matin Luther. Feeneyites follow not the Church but the teachings of Leonard Feeney. True, most Feeneyites disagree with Feeney on a couple of points, just as many Lutherans disagree with some original points of Luther, but the appellation fits.

      Feeney’s excommunication was both just and for heresy. On February 13, 1953, His Holiness Pope Pius XII solemnly excommunicated the former Jesuit priest, Leonard Feeney, for heresy (Feeney had been expelled from the Jesuits on October 10, 1949 for grave disobedience). Feeney denied the Church's infallible teaching on Baptism of Desire (BOD) and Baptism of Blood (BOB).Yes, he was excommunicated for heresy, not disobedience as his cult followers would like you to think. The decree of excommunication against Feeney reads:
      Since Father Leonard Feeney remained in Boston (St. Benedict Center) and since he has been suspended from performing his priestly duties for a long time because of his grave disobedience to the Authority of the Church, in no way moved by repeated warnings and threats of incurring excommunication ipso facto, and has still failed to submit, the most Eminent and Reverend Fathers(of the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office), charged with the responsibility of safeguarding faith and morals, during a plenary session held on February 4, 1953, have declared him excommunicated with all the effects that this has in law.

      On Thursday, February 12, 1953, Our Most Holy Father Pius XII, Pope by Divine Providence, has approved and confirmed the decree of these Most Eminent Fathers, and ordered that this be made a matter of public record.

      Given in Rome in the general quarters of the Holy Office, February 13, 1953.

      Marius Crovini, notary.
      (CONTINUED BELOW)

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    8. Note well two facts:
      1. The Holy Office is charged with safeguarding faith and morals, not enforcing discipline.
      2. The decree of excommunication was approved and confirmed by Pope Pius XII and ordered to be published.

      Proof of #1 above: According to canonists Abbo and Hannon, "The Sacred Congregation for Religious is exclusively competent in matters affecting the government, the discipline, the studies, the property, and the privileges of religious of the Latin Rite, including religious of both sexes, those of both solemn and simple vows, and members of societies living in common without vows, as well as members of secular Third Orders." (See The Sacred Canons, [1952], 1:308; Emphasis mine). Hence, if Feeney's problem was merely and exclusively one of disobedience, it would be a disciplinary matter to be handled by The Sacred Congregation for Religious. The Holy Office would not (and could not) involve itself in a purely disciplinary matter.

      Proof of #2 above: "In one respect, the Holy Office differs from all the other Congregations in that it exercises both judicial and administrative power, or, at least, may only use judicial power at the request of the parties interested. Thus, the Holy Office in dealing with all matters which directly or indirectly concern faith or morals, will not judge only heresy, but, where it pronounces an adverse judgement, will also apply the canonical punishments incurred by heretics and schismatics." (See theologian Williams, The Catholic Church in Action, [1958], pg. 92). The Holy Office has the authority to excommunicate any person. The Prefect is the pope himself, a "Pro-Prefect" heads the Congregation on a daily basis, but the pope must personally approve all decisions and order them published. Pope Pius XII personally approved the decree of excommunication emanating from the Holy Office and ordered it published.

      The letter of solemn excommunication against Father Leonard Feeney was duly published in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis, the official publication of the Holy See. Its reference number is 45-100. All laws promulgated through it have binding force with no other form of publication/promulgation being necessary.

      The inescapable conclusion is that Leonard Feeney was properly and validly excommunicated for his false teachings.

      Well, the persons you name weren’t Feeneyites because… they did not deny the truth! One such proof:
      St. Gregory Nazianzen (Church Father & Doctor of the Church) 329-390 AD:
      Oration XXXIX, Oration on the Holy Lights:
      “Now there is also a fourth kind of baptism [besides the baptism of Moses, of John, and of Jesus], namely that which is acquired by martyrdom and blood, by which Christ Himself was also baptized, and which indeed is more venerable than the others, because it is contaminated by no defilements afterwards.”

      Feeneyites don’t believe in BOB now, do they?
      (CONTINUED BELOW)

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    9. 2. You write, “Council of Trent doesn’t teach BoD at all. The catechism of Saint Peter Canisius sites The Council, he was a theologian that was there, and he explicitly teaches the literal and dogmatic teaching of John 3:5, no exceptions mentioned. BOD doesn’t provide the grace of Spiritual Rebirth/Water Baptism according to Saint Alphonsus definition of BOD. It’s de fide definita that UNLESS YOU RECEIVE THE GRACE OF SPIRITUAL REBIRTH YOU CAN NEVER BE JUSTIFIED. “
      Reply: Wrong again! From Trent:
      CANON IV.-If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous; and that, without them, OR WITHOUT THE DESIRE THEREOF, men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification;-though all (the sacraments) are not indeed necessary for every individual; let him be anathema. (Emphasis mine).

      From the Decree on Justification:

      By which words, a description of the Justification of the impious is indicated,-as being a translation, from that state wherein man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace, and of the adoption of the sons of God, through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Savior. And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, OR THE DESIRE THEREOF, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. (Emphasis mine).

      Next, In Trent's Decree on Penance and Extreme Unction, we read:

      The Synod [Trent] teaches moreover, that, although it sometimes happen that this contrition is perfect through charity, and reconciles man with God before this sacrament [Penance] be actually received, the said reconciliation, nevertheless, is not to be ascribed to that contrition, independently of the desire of the sacrament which is included therein.

      We have a teaching on "Penance by desire." Later, the Decree states,

      This Sacrament of Penance is, for those who have fallen after baptism, necessary unto salvation; as baptism itself is for those who have not as yet been regenerated.

      The Council of Trent says here that the sacrament of penance is necessary for the salvation of those who have fallen after baptism, as baptism itself is for those who have not as yet been regenerated. However, it is very clear that Trent admits that a man can receive the effect of the sacrament of Penance by desire, before actually receiving the sacrament itself.

      Thus, if one wishes to hold that baptism by water is necessary in such a way that the effect of baptism cannot be received before the sacrament itself, one must also hold that the same thing is true of Penance. Otherwise, it would not be true that the sacrament of penance is necessary after sinning just as the sacrament of baptism before being baptized.
      (CONTINUED BELOW)

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    10. As to St. Alphonsus:
      The second point of contention was the alleged "mistake" St. Alphonsus Liguori made (as well as the other theologians), that BOD does not remit the full temporal punishments due to sin as does the sacrament of Baptism. Therefore, you are not receiving "the grace of Baptism" and BOD does not exist.

      There is confusion on the meaning of the term "grace of Baptism." First, the Feeneyite objection will be set forth in a syllogistic form:

      1. An adult who receives water baptism validly and who dies before committing a sin goes immediately to Heaven because the "grace of baptism" washes away all sin and all punishment due to sin.

      2. An adult who receives baptism of desire does not have all punishment due to sin washed away.

      3. Hence, an adult who receives baptism of desire is receiving something other than the "grace of baptism."

      4. Therefore, an adult who receives baptism of desire, is not actually receiving the "grace of baptism," and will not go to Heaven were he to die before receiving water baptism.

      It seems valid, but the problem lies in the term "grace of baptism" not being properly understood. The term applies to a bundle of gifts that the Sacrament alone gives to the recipient. Those gifts are:
      *The infusion of sanctifying grace (which washes away all sin, both Original and actual [mortal and venial])
      *The infusion of the three theological virtues (these actually never exist in a soul without sanctifying grace, but are distinct from sanctifying grace)
      *The removal of all temporal punishment for sin
      *The communication of the baptismal character on the soul which gives the soul a right to participate in the Church's sacramental life
      *incorporation into the Church
      • BOD does not communicate "the bundle" that is always communicated via the "grace of baptism."
      • BOD does communicate the first two items in the bundle, however, and as a consequence puts the recipient within the One True Church. So while it does not communicate "the grace of baptism," it communicates enough of the gifts included in the grace of baptism to justify. This is because justification consists simply in the existence of God's life in the soul and the habituation of the virtues of faith, hope, and charity. While it is true that a man who receives baptism of desire receives something other than the "grace of baptism" technically considered, the person who receives BOD does receive the justifying effects of baptism.

      In revisiting the Feeneyite objection above, #4 does not logically follow from numbers 1-3. They actually beg the question when they assert "BOD does not communicate the grace of baptism," because they are really saying, "BOD is not the same as being justified by water baptism. Water baptism is the only way to be justified. Therefore, BOD does not justify." The whole point of dispute is whether water baptism (the sacrament) is the only way to be justified, and they gratuitously assume it to be true in making their objection to BOD.

      Finally, there is the condemned proposition #31 of Michael du Bay (Condemned in the decree Ex omnibus afflicionibus of Pope St. Pius V on October 1, 1567) which states:

      CONDEMNED: Perfect and sincere charity, which is from a "pure heart and good conscience and a faith not feigned" [1 Timothy 1:5], can be in catechumens as well as in penitents without the remission of sins.

      So a catechumen can have perfect and sincere charity which necessitates the remission of sin. It says nothing about the remission of temporal punishments. BOB, on the other hand, is considered by theologians as removing all temporal punishments. This is most likely because death in the service of Christ is a kind of penance whereby those debts are remitted. Such a penitent type of willful surrender of one's life to Christ is different than a catechumen who has a heart attack or a car accident causing death prior to Baptism.
      (CONTINUED BELOW)

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    11. 3. You write, “Leonard Feeney was charged and excommunicated for disobedience not heresy. That is irrefutable.”
      Reply: It’s very refutable, and I did so above. I even gave the reference number in the AAS!!

      Thanks for letting me trash the heretical "arguments" of those "geniuses" Fred and Bobby!! Now, debate formally or don't comment on this topic.

      Praying for your conversion,

      ---Introibo

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  21. Great Reply to this nutcase Introibo . We have no problem with folk like that here in Australia .It only is a major problem over there in the USA. God bless

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    1. A Modernist/Liberal from Australia is weighing in with no who has no clue. This is who this blog attracts. The Australians are the same people who allowed their firearms to be confiscated, had COVID concentration camps, and allow demented female leaders wearing hijabs to rule over them. This commenter seems to believe that Muslims who die in the false religion of Islam can be saved. You definitely have problems in Australia. Hopefully, there are still some Catholics over there and not just John 3:5 mockers and multiculturalists.

      Delete
    2. @anon6:06
      You write, “A Modernist/Liberal from Australia is weighing in with no who has no clue”
      Reply: Look above. The clueless one is YOU and the other FEENEYITES.

      You write, “This is who this blog attracts.”
      Reply: Yes, real Catholics! Yet, that doesn’t explain YOUR presence here, now does it?

      You write, “ The Australians are the same people who allowed their firearms to be confiscated, had COVID concentration camps, and allow demented female leaders wearing hijabs to rule over them.”

      Reply: Fred and Bobby Dimond live here in ultra-liberal New York with feminist Gov. Hochul! With AOC! With the most liberal LGBTQIA+ and abortion laws! Yet Fred and Bobby are New Yorkers, so they must have something seriously wrong with them! In logic, this is the fallacy of ad hominem. It can also be said to be a form of the genetic fallacy—dismissing arguments based on where it originates rather than what is argued. With “logic” like yours, no wonder you’re a Feeneyite!

      You write: “This commenter seems to believe that Muslims who die in the false religion of Islam can be saved.”
      Reply: Where did he write that? Can you say, “calumny”?

      ---Introibo

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    3. @anon5:29
      Thank you, my friend! Always good to hear from my readers "Down Under"!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    4. Your lame moral assessments of others in regards to accusing them of “calumny” can never be taken seriously. You aren’t Catholic. This Non-Catholic, modernist blog is filled with false accusations of others, ad hominem attacks, contumely, heresy, defamatory remarks about others and an unhealthy obsession with The Dimond Brothers. You never debate them. You are a timid blowhard who cites Modernist writers from the late 50s and 60s who spew religious indifferentism and who support birth control. You are terrified of being cross examined by The Dimonds and having your modernist filth put on full display for all to witness. That’s why you write gobbledygook and subtle deceptions in in your Cushingite blog and try to pass it off as Catholic. Pathetic indeed. Your fan from Australia believes what you believe based on the cheerleading comment. You all believe that Voodooists who die as Voodoists in the external forum might actually be saved. And Australia is definitely a dystopian cess pit with a at least one John 3:5 mocker over there commenting on your blog.

      Delete
    5. @anon10:58
      You write, "Your lame moral assessments of others in regards to accusing them of “calumny” can never be taken seriously."

      Reply: You accused the reader from Australia in the following sentence: "This commenter seems to believe that Muslims who die in the false religion of Islam can be saved" The reader wrote NOTHING of the kind about Moslems or any other non-Catholic. Nor do I believe that. Nor have I ever written that. Ergo, calumny--the malicious telling of a falsehood to injure the good reputation and name of another.

      You write: "You aren’t Catholic. This Non-Catholic, modernist blog is filled with false accusations of others, ad hominem attacks, contumely, heresy, defamatory remarks about others and an unhealthy obsession with The Dimond Brothers."

      Reply: No, this is the Faith of the Church. The only one with "false accusations of others, ad hominem attacks, contumely, heresy, defamatory remarks about others" are Feeneyites. I never mentioned Fred and Bobby until one of their minions came on here to comment. The Undynamic Duo lead many souls to Hell.

      You write, " You never debate them. You are a timid blowhard who cites Modernist writers from the late 50s and 60s who spew religious indifferentism and who support birth control."

      Reply: I challenged Fred and Bobby and they run away. If you see the kick in the teeth I gave Bobby when he came into the comments in February, is it any wonder the refuse to debate me in a written, online neutral forum?

      I stand ready to debate Fred and Bobby (or you). Just let them say the word!! The theologians I cite were approved by a hierarchy with Magisterial authority, therefore not heretics.

      You write: "You are terrified of being cross examined by The Dimonds and having your modernist filth put on full display for all to witness. That’s why you write gobbledygook and subtle deceptions in in your Cushingite blog and try to pass it off as Catholic. Pathetic indeed."

      Reply: I fear no one. tell your cult masters that Introibo stands ready to debate. I stand ready to debate you, or any Feeneyite.

      You write, "You all believe that Voodooists who die as Voodoists in the external forum might actually be saved."

      Reply: No. It is possible that such a person--if many conditions are met--may be enlightened by God Who will infuse the Catholic Faith and sanctifying grace prior to death so they are within the Church and not pagans any longer.

      And NY is the biggest cesspool of all, with Fred and Bobby here. Do you know who really mocks St. John 3:5? Fred, Bobby, and you!

      Fr. Cornelius à Lapide, S.J. (1567- 1637) a Flemish Jesuit and renowned exegete wrote in his great biblical commentary on John 3:5 around 1615:

      "Lastly, born of water ought here to be understood either in actual fact, or by desire. For he who repents of his sins, and desires to be baptized, but either from want of water, or lack of a minister, is not able to receive it, is born again through (ex) the desire and wish for baptism. So the Council of Trent fully explains this passage (Sess. 7, Can. 4). "

      I guess à Lapide was another Modernist from the late 1950s. Oh, and his works were used in the seminaries with full approval from the hierarchy, including true popes. I guess it takes two uneducated men in upstate NY who LARP as religious to REALLY understand that passage!

      Over and out,

      ---Introibo

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    6. Introibo
      As I said in my comment , we don't have any problem here in Australia with Traditional Catholics following the errors of the Dimonds and Father Feeney . You took their garbage to pieces . What a poor Soul . Praying for their conversion.God bless

      Delete
    7. @anon6:33
      That fact alone makes Australia sound like a great place!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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  22. Greetings, Introibo and friends of the blog. I share with you an article from a Church media that you call NO in which they talk about Maciel and Pope Pacelli. Since it is written in Spanish I will translate it so you can read it if you want:

    "Rome knew, and covered up, for half a century, the abuses of Marcial Maciel

    For half a century, the Vatican knew about Marcial Maciel's excesses, without doing anything about it. Rome knew of the addictions of the founder of the Legion of Christ to morphine, his double life and his relationships with seminarians, and in fact, in 1956, Pius XII removed him from the leadership of the movement he had founded. But the death of Pacelli, in 1958, and other intrigues, allowed Maciel to return to the leadership of the Legion, becoming named 'apostle of youth' by John Paul II. It was not until 2006 when Benedict XVI urged Maciel to a life of silence and prayer.

    But could many of the abuses have been avoided? The answer, after examining the archives of Pope Pius XII, seems clear. As Massimo Franco reveals in the cultural supplement La Lettura del Corriere della Sera, it was already known how Vatican officials had doubts about Maciel's morality, his drug use, his financial imprudence and the sexual abuse of his young seminarians.

    "However, it took more than half a century for the Holy See to sanction Maciel, and even longer to recognize that he was a religious fraud and a swindler who abused his seminarians, had three children and created a secret and sectarian religious order to hide his double life," says Ap, which points to "new details," including unpublished documentation from the Secretary of State.

    What do the archives tell us? That Pius XII decided to take strong measures against Maciel in 1956, and that he planned to remove him from the priestly ministry. But his death allowed the supporters of the Mexican religious to continue to roam freely. Who helped Maciel evade sanctions? As read in the cultural supplement La Lettura del Corriere della Sera, the draft of a memorandum dated October 1, 1956, and written by number 3 of the Vatican office for religious orders, indicates that the Vatican suspended Maciel as superior of the Legion, and ordered him to detoxify from his addiction to morphine. Along with this, the original note prohibited him from having contact with young seminarians, under penalty of being suspended from the priestly ministry.

    ReplyDelete
  23. The author of the note, the Reverend Giovanni Battista Scapinelli, wrote that if Maciel came to the congregation "I will order him to treat himself, to abandon any contact with his students until the congregation says otherwise. And if he does not show up, in two days, a preventive order must be given to Maciel: Either you are going to be treated or you will remain suspended a divinis. However, a later draft - published by Maciel's victims in 2012 - shows how Scapinelli simply ordered the priest to receive medical treatment, but there was no longer a trace of the order to stay away from the young people.

    "All versions of the memorandum of October 1, 1956 - writes Ap - make it clear that Maciel had a great protector in the Vatican, Cardinal Giuseppe Pizzardo, number 2 of the powerful Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith." Other documents indicate that the Congregation for Religious "could not proceed further against F. Maciel due to the recommendations and interventions of high-ranking personalities."

    After the death of Pius XII, two years later, Maciel's supporters managed to reinstate himself as superior of the Legion, at the beginning of 1959. The rest of the story is already known. Maciel died in 2008, two years after Benedict XVI's sanction, which occurred half a century after the Vatican was able to definitively stop what is considered the greatest sexual predator of the Catholic Church in the last century."

    What do you think? It seems like an exhaustive study that leaves Cardinal Pizzardo in a very bad light. Some sedevacantists, as far as I know, tend to idealize the situation of the Church before the VII and I think it is good to analyze what was done wrong to reach the situation of general apostasy today. Many of its members seem to have been very corrupt.

    Thank you.

    Young reader from Spain

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    Replies
    1. Young Reader from Spain,
      Thank you for the information! The Church was full with Modernists waiting to emerge pre-Vatican II. As Fr. DePauw always said, "They didn't become bums overnight!"

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    2. Thank you very much!

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    3. Young reader from Spain

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    4. Why did Pius XII allow the Opus Dei within the Church?
      God bless,
      Andrew

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    5. Andrew,
      The short answer: Escriva started with Catholic principles but that all changed in 1962 during the false pontificate of Roncalli. It became Opus Diaboli, and promoted false ecumenism even before V2 ended, while trying to appear “traditional” to Catholics at large.

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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  24. Thank you for your response. Regarding the SGG SCHOOL SCANDAL OF 2009 I strongly recommend reading the documentation available here:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20160114120242/http://sggscandal.com/
    As far as its known noone denies the authenticity of these documents. THE moral stances of even otherwise orthodox catholics may be a reason to shun them - until they acknowledge, explain, repent and Fix whatever is still possibile to fix. which is what we should wish the still living anti-heroes of the scandal with all our hearts. BTW does anyone know what is happening now with father Bernard Hall?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon3:06
      I will not get involved in something in the past which may or may not have taken place. Both Bp. Dolan and Fr. Cekada have gone to Judgement. If someone wants to stay away, it's their right to do so. Just don't question their orders on grounds that are laughable were it not so serious.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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