Monday, January 7, 2019

Singing For Satan---Part 18



This week I continue my once-per-month series of posts regarding an informal study I undertook in the early 1990s regarding rock and pop music. The purpose of my study (and the background to it) can be read in the first installment of August 7, 2017. If you have not read that post, I strongly encourage you to do so before reading this installment. I will only repeat here the seven (7) evil elements that pervade today's music:

1. Violence/Murder/Suicide
2. Nihilism/Despair
3. Drug and alcohol glorification
4. Adultery/ Fornication and sexual perversion
5. The occult
6. Rebellion against lawful superiors
7. Blasphemy against God, Jesus Christ in particular, and the Church

 The exposing of the bands/artists continues.

Hall and Oates
Daryl Hall (b. Daryl Hohl in 1946) and John Oates (b. 1948) were two aspiring musicians who attended Temple University in Philadelphia. In 1967, when Hall was a senior and Oates was a junior, they were in a "battle of the bands" competition. Hall was with a band called The Temptones, and Oates was with a band called The Masters. When a fight broke out among band members, the two of them tried to stop it, only to have the angry participants turn on them both. They ran into a service elevator together and escaped. Exchanging phone numbers, they became friends and roommates, as they enjoyed the same type of music. They decided to form a "pop-rock" duo, and when the building super put a sticker on their mailbox labeled "Hall & Oates," the appellation became their professional moniker.

 The two landed a recording contract with Atlantic Records and released three albums beginning in 1972. They were not very successful. In 1975, the duo was picked up by RCA Records, and they released their fourth album entitled  Daryl Hall and John Oates, which was moderately successful with a ballad called Sara Smile, written by Hall for his then-girlfriend Sara Allen. With their 1976 album Bigger Than Both of Us, Hall & Oates scored their first mega-hit, Rich Girl, which became ubiquitous on radio stations across the United States in 1977.  The song was the first major hit to feature an uncensored vulgarity--b*tch. Their hits continued at a rapid pace, and by the mid-1980s, they were a household name.

Hall and Oates have sold an estimated 40 million records, making them the best selling music duo in history. Billboard magazine named them the most successful duo of the rock era, surpassing Simon & Garfunkel and The Everly Brothers. In 2014, Hall & Oates were inducted into The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. 

Satanic? Are You Joking?
As I've stated before, my research on rock, pop, and rap artists was restricted to those groups and artists generally thought of as being "tame" or "innocuous." It doesn't take much to see that bands like AC/DC and artists like Ozzy Osbourne are overtly Satanic. However, when I call Hall & Oates the most duplicitous group singing for Satan, even some of my friends have raised their eyebrows, and gave me the look that says, "You're pulling my leg, right?" The generally clean-cut image portrayed by the duo, and the sappy love songs they mostly sing, makes it extremely hard to imagine them as "Satanic."

Yet, this is exactly what Satan wants you to believe. We must not judge their music based on their looks or some of the love songs that are unobjectionable. We must judge them based on their lifestyle and lyrics taken as a whole. A small dose of poison in an otherwise good drink can kill you. Remember also, the words of Sacred Scripture, "For such false apostles are deceitful workmen, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:10-14).

The devil and his demons do their best work when they come in the guise of something good, or at least something considered harmless. I ask you to read the rest of this post with an open mind and then discern for yourself if Daryl Hall and John Oates are benevolent (or harmless) singers, or if there is something deceptive and nefarious going on with them. Obviously, I have come to the conclusion that the manifest weight of the credible evidence shows the latter, and their music should be shunned.

Daryl Hall: Pervert and Occultist
On the cover of their fourth album Daryl Hall and John Oates, the duo look like effeminate drag queens, complete with blush. Many people thought them to be sodomite lovers, despite protests to the contrary from them at the time. Hall once remarked, "I was looking like the girl I always wanted to go out with."
Daryl Hall and John Oates, when dressed properly, were considered handsome men, and many women in their 20s and 30s were smitten by them. In actuality, Hall is bi-sexual, and promiscuous. In Rolling Stone magazine, 4/21/77, pg. 15, Hall said in an interview, "The idea of sex with a man doesn't turn me off...but I don't express it. I satisfied my curiosity about that years ago. I had lots of sex between the ages of three or four and the time I was fourteen or fifteen. Strange experiences with older boys. But men don't particularly turn me on. And, no, John and I have never been lovers. He's not my type. Too short and dark." (Emphasis mine).  John Oates is quoted as saying, "Rock music is 99% sex." Hall chimed in, "I wish you were allowed to use more raw language.You should be able to say 'f**k' in a song without being banned." (Expletive censored by me).

Sex certainly is one of the main subjects of their songs. The hit Maneater is about a prostitute:

She'll only come out at night
The lean and hungry type
Nothing is new, I've seen her here before
Watching and waiting
Ooh, she's sitting with you but her eyes are on the door
So many have paid to see
What you think you're getting for free
The woman is wild, a she-cat tamed by the purr of a Jaguar
Money's the matter
If you're in it for love
You ain't gonna get too far
Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh here she comes)
She's a maneater
(Oh here she comes)
Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh here she comes)
She's a maneater
I wouldn't if I were you
I know what she can do
She's deadly man, she could really rip your world apart
Mind over matter
Ooh, the beauty is there but a beast is in the heart  (Emphasis mine)

Their song Family Man is also about a prostitute. She wants a married man to be with her so she lowers her price for sex. Defenders of Hall & Oates will say that the song is good because the married man says no to her. The last line of the song actually tells a different tale:

She had sulky smile
She took her standard pose as she presented herself
She had sultry eyes
She made it perfectly plain that she was his for a price

But he said, leave me alone, I'm a family man
And my bark is much worse than my bite
He said, leave me alone, I'm a family man
If you push me too far I just might

She wore hurt surprise
As she rechecked her make up to protect herself
Dropped her price and pride
She made it totally clear that she was his for a night

But he said, leave me alone, I'm a family man
And my bark is much worse than my bite
He said, leave me alone, I'm a family man
If you push me too far I just might

She gave him her look
It would have worked on any other man around
He looked her up and down
She knew he couldn't decide if he should hold his ground

But he said, leave me alone, I'm a family man
And my bark is much worse than my bite
He said, leave me alone, I'm a family man
If you push me too far I just might

She turned, tossed her head
Unlike her opening move, her final exit line
He waited much too long
But by the time he got his courage up she was gone

And he screamed, leave me alone, I'm a family man
And my bark is much worse than my bite
He said, leave me alone, I'm a family man
If you push me too far I just might...
He said, leave me alone, I'm a family man
Don't leave me alone 'cause I got to go hungry (Emphasis mine)

The "family man" got his "courage" up to pay her for sex, but she had already left. The last line tells us he does not want to be left alone because he's "got to go hungry" (slang for "not having sex"--ostensibly with his wife--so he wants the prostitute).

Hall was raised Methodist. He converted to Judaism for his first wife. He speaks about it in an interview and admits there are spiritual themes/messages in his songs.

[Interviewer] I never spotted religious themes in your lyrics before.

[Hall] Well, religion has always been a part of my life, and yeah, there are inadvertent references to religion. I grew up singing in the church, but when I moved to Philadelphia, I got heavily involved in West Philadelphia. I married a Jewish girl and converted to Judaism in 1969, or 1970. Something like that. But now I’m not a member of any organized religion.

[Interviewer] So you converted for a girl? No way.

[Hall] Yeah, that's the power of the West Philadelphia Jewish community. I spent almost a year under its tutelage. It became a part of my life. I wasn't married to her very long, but Judaism still gives me an understanding of life. I do feel more akin to Judaism than Methodism, that’s for sure. And not to be stereotypical, being Jewish gave me more of an insight into the music business.
(See http://heebmagazine.com/daryl-hall-music-legend-and-blond-jew-finally-gets-his-due/5053; Emphasis mine).

Hall, ever interested in the occult, is rumored to have been into the Kabbalah. The word "Kabbalah" means "to receive," and refers to "divine revelation" allegedly given to the Jews and passed on to succeeding generations through oral tradition. At first it was used by the mainstream of Judaism, but eventually it became identified with those who believed that the Kabbalah was an esoteric, occultic tradition that explained the true meaning of the Hebrew Scriptures. It was kept hidden from the masses and only made known to those who were spiritually ready to receive it--it's the Jewish counterpart of Gnosticism, if you will. Kabbalah is extremely evil, blasphemous, and anti-Christian.

Hall admits to being a student of Aleister Crowley (1875-1947), the English Satanist, who was dubbed, "The Wickedest Man in the World" by the press. Interestingly, Hall & Oates didn't become popular until 1977. In 1974, Hall became involved with both Satanism and the occultist George Gurdjieff (a Russian Occultist, d.1949) and then his career took off.  Hall had this to say:

[Interviewer] You also at the time were interested in mysticism, and reading up on things like Aleister Crowley--

[Hall]: ...A lot of people go through that kind of thing. And I went through it, and I retained a lot of it, and I discarded a lot of it. My life was unbalanced at the time, when I was doing that.

Despite Hall's claims that he "discarded" a lot of the occult, he claims to be a witch (practitioner of Wicca), in a long line of witches. In that same interview, he said:

[Interviewer] There's a quote I found from '84 that really interested me. You said, "In my uncle's time, you were a minister. Two generations before that you were a warlock. Now you're me." Is that how you sum up being the frontman, the singer?

[Hall]: [laughs] Yeah. I always look at it as being a continuum. That's true, by the way-- I come from a family of ministers. And my great-grandfather was what they used to call in Pennsylvania a "pow-wow man," which is basically a male witch. It goes back to the old Germanic and English things-- it's like the evil eye, keeping the crops from getting the blight, and the cows from getting sick, and all that stuff. It's just old, old folky things. He was a healer, he used to heal people's warts and give them all kinds of potions and all that kind of stuff. He also had an evil side. And I heard some stories about him. [laughs] I never knew him, but I heard lots of stories about him.

That's how that filtered into that statement. But I see what musicians do, especially singers, as a primal thing. It comes from howling around the campfire. Everybody was sitting around whatever, in the earliest of early times-- pre-literate times, how's that? Pre-conscious times. And pre-sentient times. And somebody would be the guy that would start the howling. And that's what I do. 
(See https://pitchfork.com/features/interview/6673-daryl-hall/; Emphasis mine).

The song Adult Education is about a high school girl who wants an "adult education" in sex because the boys are not as experienced as they pretend to be. The video to this song is full of occult imagery and has nothing to do with the perverted lyrics. In the video, while the duo sing, they are in what appears to be a pagan temple. There's a man with a baseball cap on, giving "blessings" with idols. It ends with what appears to be the ritual human sacrifice of a young man and young woman. Yet, the video ends with the boy standing behind the idols' altar and the girl sitting on the stone slab in front of it, as Hall & Oates and their band continue to sing, dance and play instruments in the background. The final shots of the video are of hieroglyphs and ceremonial items scattered around the structure. The video can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLYqTZKEpvs

Music to Kill For?

Hall's 1980 solo album, Sacred Songs, explores his view of the supernatural and his interest in supernatural topics. For example, the lyrics discuss occult "magick" and hint at Hall’s personal philosophy. Notably, the song, Without Tears alludes to Aleister Crowley’s book Magick without Tears. Crowley taught, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." That would include murder.

The hit song Rich Girl, which catapulted Hall & Oates to fame and fortune, came out after Hall's deep involvement in Satanism and the occult. I was 12 years old when the tune went to the top of the music charts in 1977. From 1976 to August 10, 1977, New York City was terrorized by serial killer David Berkowitz (b. Richard David Falco in 1953). He was also known as "The Son of Sam" because his neighbor's dog, "Sam" had "told him" to start killing people. He was also known to the police as "The .44 Caliber Killer" due to the weapon he used. Berkowitz claimed, after he was imprisoned, that he was part of a Satanic coven. Personally, I believe he did not act alone and did indeed have help. At one point, Berkowitz asked the controversial Jesuit and author, Malachi Martin, to help him write a book. Martin declined, and Berkowitz then converted to "born-again" Protestantism.

Berkowitz once claimed that he would "pump himself up" for murder by listening to Rich Girl. (See, e.g., https://www.songfacts.com/facts/daryl-hall-john-oates/rich-girl). Hall wrote the song Diddy Doo Wop (I Hear the Voices) in response. The pertinent part of the lyrics are as follows:

Diddy doo wop, oh oh oh oh oh
Diddy doo wop, oh oh oh
Well, it's the voice that I hear at the subway stop
Keep singing, diddy doo wop

Diddy doo wop, oh oh oh oh oh
Diddy doo wop, oh oh oh
Well, it starts in my head and it ends when I stop
Keep singing, diddy doo wop

Charlie liked the Beatles (ahh)
Sam, he liked Rich Girl (b*tch girl)
But I'm still hung up on the Duke of Earl (duke, duke, duke of earl, duke, duke, duke of earl)
Reaching for the handle
I'm slicing through the air "swish, swish"
Oh, the doo wop voices everywhere
And oh, the Duke is singing (Emphasis and censorship of vulgarity mine)

"Charlie" is a reference to Charles Manson and The Beatles, "Sam" is a reference to Berkowitz and the Hall & Oates song. Someone claims your song helped motivate them to murder and you put that claim in another song? A lighthearted satire in response to something so serious, is in my opinion, seriously wrong! If the song was written by Hall when under demonic inspiration, could the song somehow entice other demonically influenced people to do even more evil acts? I think it's entirely possible. I don't know if it's backward masked messages, or something else, but it seems plausible, especially given the surrounding circumstances.

Conclusion
Daryl Hall and John Oates appear to be harmless singers who perform innocent love songs. A closer examination of the facts proves otherwise. I'm reminded of Our Lord's condemnation of the scribes and Pharisees who liked to appear holy: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. "You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness." (St. Matthew 23: 25-28).

A note to my readers: I'm interested in whether or not you find this series of posts on music worthwhile. If you find it beneficial and would like it to continue, could you please comment and let me know why? If not, and you think it should end, please comment and let me know that too. It's a lot of work to pull up my old notes and update/publish it. Yet, I will gladly continue if people find the series to be useful. Many thanks to those who will let me know!---Introibo

125 comments:

  1. Please continue with these posts, they are informative and very useful and you are the only one writing on this subject. Thank you!

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  2. I'm enjoying them as well. Thanks and please continue

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  3. You have a wide range of readers of all ages, and all stages of traditional Catholicism, so there are bound to be topics that are of more interest than others to any given reader.

    As a 60-something woman who was exposed to pop culture but mercifully not deeply involved, this particular series is not of interest, but that is not to discourage you.

    Do you have stats of page views? That might be a more accurate indication of interest than comment numbers. These articles mention sensitive topics on which readers may not wish to comment, but which still are of interest.

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    Replies
    1. Barbara,
      The page views I receive for this series is roughly 40% to 50% less than I receive on my other posts. You make an excellent point about the range of readers and sensitive topics. I really appreciate your comment! You’ve helped me in considering this topic.

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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    2. I say that even if just one person who reads any one of these posts comes away understanding how their mind, heart and soul have been damaged by listening to these people, it is worth your time and effort.

      I appreciate the time and effort you have put into this and NO ONE ELSE that I know of has exposed these people for what they truly are. Thank you!!!

      Delete
    3. Thank you for the encouragement Lanie!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  4. I hope you continue. They're very informative.

    ReplyDelete
  5. While I think the information is useful, once I have read the Singing for Satan article I do not usually return to your site until the next week. Other topics will make me return to see the comments. But Rock n Roll is the devils music and I have stopped listening to all of it years ago. Does your statistics track return viewers or simply views of any type?

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    1. Tom,
      I can track all views minus my own, and thanks to a program my friend gave me, unique visitors—not those who return.

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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  6. Introibo,
    While I was never personally immersed in the Pop/Rock culture, I don’t look forward to the Singing With Satan articles as I do with your other articles.
    However, whether you decide to continue with the Singing with Satan articles, or not, I support whichever decision you make.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Joann,
      Glad to see it helps those not involved in the rock culture!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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    2. Joann
      What I meant is that it is not something that you are totally against, even if it didn’t apply to you, but you prefer my other articles!

      —-Introibo

      Delete
  7. Joann,
    Thank you for the feedback!

    God Bless,

    —-Introibo

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hi Intro,

    I find the articles/posts too graphic. At best I skim them, and never read the lyrics and many other details you present. I don't want to be filling my head with that type of stuff.

    I usually just skip to the "conclusion."

    Regards


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  9. I return to say that even though I would love to live in a cloister, all of us must have family and friends who are still stuck in the N.O., or who are heretics or pagans. (I know there are some sectarian Trady groups who advise to just cut these people out of your life, but this is absurd, because then they will never convert, for sure). This is useful information to pass on to the young people who maybe think retro Beatles and Queen are cool. Young people still listen to this music, and it is good to be able to explain just why they should not listen with facts. I have told a family member to stop listening to Queen for the good of their soul, and they listened. Surely, even if readership of these articles is lower than the rest, and others are of the age where they never paid attention to this music and do not find them useful, if these articles can help just one poor soul, you have done Gods holy work, again, I vote for you to continue. There is even a movie on Queen now that just won a an award, so all is relevant. Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Many thanks for your thoughtful feedback!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

      Delete
  10. 1: I think every Traditionalist Catholic should now by now that most rock and roll music is perverse. However, "innocent" groups like Hall´n´Oates, The Eagles and The Police should be exposed. So maybe you can do one post or more about "naive" bands and that would be enough.
    2: I agree with anonymous 6:41 that sometimes they are too graphic - specially with Prince, The Police, Nirvana, and the Rolling Stones - It is not your fault that those people write rubbish, but if you just showed a little part of the lyrics - like with D. Bowie - or ship some details, this could be far better.
    For Greater Glory of God,
    Long Life Christ the King and Our Lady of Guadalupe.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for the good points you make!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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  11. Please continue the series.

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  12. Thank you for doing the series. I've followed the entire thing and at the beginning it inspired me to cut off the radio and end my Play subscription. Now when I'm in the car or when I exercise, I pray, think, or talk with my husband. It encouraged him to cut off his 80's station. I hope you will continue the series, Introibo. I do skip some of the lyrics sometimes, but I also think it is right to put them out there and expose them to the light. Your work on this topic and on this entire blog has been a gift. I look forward to Monday mornings because of it. Thank you. It has helped me so much.

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    1. Michelle,
      Thank you for the kind words and the helpful feedback. I’m so glad it had a positive impact in your life!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

      Delete
  13. Hello again, Intro.(I'm anonymous @ 6:41)

    As you know, I think the posts are too graphic. It appears that Poni and Michelle agree. This is not to say that your posts have no value. They do. They impart valuable information about unsavoury people in an unsavoury industry. However, you have a grave responsibility to not be the cause of exciting the minds of people (especially prone are young males) insofar venereal thoughts. I understand that you're a lawyer, and therefore you instinctively feel the need to present clear-cut evidence. Believe me I understand. However, it's inappropriate to do so on this type of site, especially when you can convey the message without doing so. Fictitious example: "Frankie Pervstar shot to fame with his hit song *insert title*, about a coke-sniffing tranny hooker." Enough said - no need for the perverse lyrics.

    I'll leave these thoughts for your consideration: You have zero control as to whom visits this site. It may be "bookmarked" on all sorts of media devices owned by adults. Kids may very well end up visiting this site and reading graphic content. Before Vatican II, a Catholic wouldn't have been allowed to run a site like this without permission from Catholic authorities - and for very good reason.

    Best regards

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    Replies
    1. An excellent point. One to which I must give very serious consideration.

      Many thanks for commenting!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

      Delete
  14. The song was the first major hit to feature an uncensored vulgarity--b*tch.


    I dont blame these two dopes, Hall and Oats, for this, who allowed it to be produced? Who allowed it on the air and promoted it? Lets go to the source: Vatican II, the eclipse of the moral authority of the Catholic Faith, and the ugly principles of the 1st amendment.

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  15. I love this series! my only disagreement is with that the non-lyriced music is a problem in itself. So even "christian Rock and Rap" (read Toby Mac) are inappropriate, because, even with nonsense words, the music conveys a sense of sex and a bacchanal!

    It is below the belt music, opposed to Haydn, which is cerebral.

    Great research, keep it up, and do Dylan! He is my favorite, but I'm deeply suspicious of him. I've stopped listening to anything but classical.

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  16. I like your series. For example you pointed a few things out about Hall and Oates I didn't know about, and the funny thing is my older brothers used to listen to them in the early 80's. One of them was so obsessed that he tried to look, act, and memorize all of Hall and Oates songs (He did kinda of resemble Hall). Now of course they don't listen to them anymore, but it did have an effect on them when they were young.

    I believe that those who don't like your series should just skip it and wait for your next week. You're the only sede who exposes this stuff and I get tired of protestants always being the ones exposing this it because young people even in Trady households might be influenced by them just because they did a good video. The good ole days are never coming back, and Pope St. Gregory the Great says it's better that scandals arise than the truth be suppressed (or something like that).

    P.S. when the Super Bowl starts on Feb. 3rd this year maybe you can write something in connection with the halftime show (Devil's time). All I hear at work is did you watch the commercials or the half time show. Catholics have First Friday and Saturday devotions. Counter the Devils new First Sunday devotion in Feb. of the halftime show on the first Monday. Thank you again

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    Replies
    1. Thank you for the great feedback!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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    2. I agree with Anonymous.
      Please continue the monthly series!
      God bless.
      Andrew

      Delete
  17. I did some research and found out that the halftime show will be performed by that squeaky toy, Adam Levine, from Maroon 5. Much like the Police he has a song about stalking a woman called "Animals." He also has a song called "Moves Like Jagger." It's about a man trying to persuade a woman to have sex with him by boasting he has the agility of Mick Jagger from The Rolling Stones

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    1. Mr. Levine emulating Jagger and The Police says everything about him a discerning person needs to know!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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    2. True. By the way thanks for introducing me to Skillet. Their music's pretty fun.

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    3. Skillet is indeed a viable and fun alternative to the secular garbage out there!

      —-Introibo

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    4. Is Skillet that "Christian" rock/metal band located out of Memphis Tenn.? If it is I'm surprised you recommend them. I've never heard of them until I read this combox so I listened to a couple of their songs and it was just worldly, the women were dressed slightly immodest (which is not surprising), and the type of music with all the banging noise sounds no different than somebody like Chris Daughtry singing it's not over even though in my mind I wished it were. I've gone into "Catholic" bookstores and they play tacky Novus ordo sounding music about Jesus too. I'd rather it be silent not so that I can think or pray but because I'd rather hear nothing than pure crap which distracts from reality. What I'm saying is just because it's labeled Christian and sings about Jesus doesn't mean it's Christian. What would Fr. Gomar de Paul think if he were alive today and listened to Skillet?

      Delete
    5. @anon3:36
      I consider Christian Rock the equivalent of methadone. You can’t tell someone who was into secular music to start listening to classical music or Gregorian chant SOME can do it—just like some people can quit drugs cold turkey. Most need a substitute until they can get to the point where they think, pray, or listen to Gregorian Chant.

      Here are the lyrics to “You Are My Hope” by Skillet. The song lyrics are addressed to Christ.
      “You are my hope, You are my strength You're everything, everything I need You are my hope, You are my life You are my hope, You are my hope

      Far beyond what I can see or comprehend Etching Your eternity in me Nations stream and angels sing, "Jesus reigns" And every knee bows down

      You're the hope of all the Earth

      You are my hope, You are my strength You're everything, everything I need You are my hope, You are my life You are my hope, You are my hope

      Carry on and I sing of how You love and I love You now All the times that I start to sink You come and You rescue me“

      Nothing heretical or evil and it does uplift people to think of Christ. Fr. DePauw was an eminently reasonable man. I think he would see my position as reasonable. I don’t follow any cleric blindly. There were times we agreed to disagree agreeably. Without a Magisterium to make binding decisions, we must follow established Catholic teaching as best we can.

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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    6. It's not just the words it's the music. Which Christ does this uplift people to? The one that you and I worship at Mass or a made up version of Him that doesn't exist except how He's perceived in the mind based on emotion? It's Protestant, and it sounds like something they sing in their churches or worse in a Novus Ordo bookstore? Have you ever heard of Icthus? It's a big event held by Protestants that sing music like this. Name one Catholic saint who became a saint by listening to this music?

      Delete
    7. @anon
      As I wrote in my first Singing For Satan Post:
      There is no such thing as an "evil beat." My spiritual father, the late, great Fr. DePauw was once accused by someone in the congregation of playing "an evil hymn"--Holy God We Praise Thy Name! Father devoted a sermon (as only a former professor of Moral Theology could do!) to the topic. God allows us to make music. There is no "intrinsically evil" music. It is the lyrics that make it good or bad. There is the Catholic Holy God We Praise Thy Name, and the Protestant version which corrupted the lyrics! We, of course, used the Catholic hymn.

      I think that sums it up well. Not everything Protestants do is wrong. When a Protestant says he believes in the Trinity, does that make it wrong or a “Protestant concept”?

      Lastly, since this type of modern music didn’t exist prior to the Great Apostasy, it doesn’t logically follow that saints would have nothing to do with it. It certainly doesn’t belong in Church. Then again, an iPad doesn’t belong in Church, yet that doesn’t make the iPad evil, nor could you ask, “How many saints owned an iPad?”

      —-Introibo

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    8. You didn't answer my questions. Which Christ does this uplift people to? The one that you and I worship at Mass or a made up version of Him that doesn't exist except how He's perceived in the mind based on emotion? That is what is what's wrong with Protestant music. It's as fake as Francis pretending to be pope. St. John Vianney condemned a lot of the dancing in his day and warned people how they were going to Hell all the time. I know he wouldn't put up with crap like Skillet.

      So if there is no "evil beat" I suppose you have no problem with "Fr." Pontifex's song here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm1q3O7xtDs Like I said, I listened to couple of those songs by Skillet and I know what I heard (metal head banging immodest buffoonery to make you "feel good about a Christ that doesn't exist)."

      Delete
    9. @anon7:45
      A “Christ that doesn’t exist”? My emotions are lifted up by Holy God We Praise Thy Name. Does “that Christ” not exist too? Christ is my Life and my Hope and the Hope Of everyone who wants to attain Heaven. If it gets people thinking of Christ AND INVESTIGATING HIS CLAIMS they can enter His One True Church. I know a Traditionalist who came to the truth when he stopped listening to the secular garbage and began listening to Christian Rock. He discovered the True Church.

      When a person in good faith calls upon Christ, he will receive actual graces, to know Him. There is only one Christ. They may have heretical views but they are still WRONG VIEWS OF THE SAME CHRIST. It is not the false moon god—“Allah.”

      Remember, too, that I suggested Christian Rock as a temporary substitute. No, there is no “evil beat” and I defy you to cite one approved theologian, canonist, or Magisterial document claiming such. Ironically, I’ve heard PROTESTANT preachers saying that certain types of music (including classical music and Gregorian chant) have “evil beats” and only 16th and 17th century Protestant hymns meet the Bible’s (and therefore God’s) approval.

      You also “know” what St John Vianney would think. I guess you’ve been blessed with private revelations. If not, it’s pure conjecture on your part. Do you condemn ALL DANCING? The Church hasn’t not did St John—only salacious dances. There are people who listen to their music without dancing or head banging.

      I know of “Fr” Pontifex and your analogy is inapposite. I don’t condemn the music as evil, I condemn:

      1. The idea that this is a “ministry” for a “priest”

      2. The bizarre and occult use images. His video looks like a group of Satan worshippers about to desecrate a Sacred Host.

      The CCM groups (Contemporary Christian Music) do not pretend to be priests or use that kind of imagery. Do I have a problem any particular type of music? No.

      Yet for all your “Holy than thou” condemnation, I notice you used vulgarity. What do you think St John Vianney would have to say about THAT??

      —-Introibo

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    10. Why do trads seem afraid of emotion and feelings? Songs tend to make one feel good. What is wrong with feeling good? We are human afterall. I think feeling good trumps masochism any day.

      Delete
    11. @anon5:07
      I think the problem is that Modernists exault emotion over reason, which causes an unhealthy counter-reaction that anything that elicits emotions is bad!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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    12. Sorry for sounding better than thou. I know that is annoying to me as it would be to others. I understand why your suggesting it as a temporary substitute to wean people who love music off of it. I don't understand why you don't have a problem with CCM. Protestants are all about singing in church and they are the ones who created "christian" rock as an alternative. How can they call it Christian when they themselves really aren't Christian?

      Pope St. Pius X Catechism

      3 Q: Who is a true Christian?
      A: A true Christian is he who is baptized, who believes and professes the Christian Doctrine, and obeys the lawful pastors of the Church.

      5 Q: Is it necessary to learn the doctrine taught by Jesus Christ?
      A: It certainly is necessary to learn the doctrine taught by Jesus Christ, and those who fail to do so are guilty of a grave breach of duty.

      Do Protestants learn Christian doctrine? No they learn heresy unfortunately and their music is surrounded by it because what they might mean in their song may be different than what somebody thinks it means.

      What do you think of "World youth day" not so much as to who is in charge of it, but the "Christian" rock that they play at those events? I was a teenager when JPII started that and many people in the Novus Ordo (not surprising) became protestant and used to talk alot about how they liked the music (a factor) because it made them feel free from ordinary Church life etc.

      This is a little off topic but because dancing and music usually are in conjunction with one another here is an excerpt of a sermon by St. John Vianney called Be Religious or Be Damnned (Sorry for the vulgarity but that is the title of his sermon)

      "The Council of Aix-la-Chapelle forbids dancing, even at weddings. And St. Charles Borromeo, the Archbishop of Milan, says that three years of penance were given to someone who had danced and that if he went back to it, he was threatened with excommunication. If there were no harm in it, then were the Holy Fathers and the Church mistaken? But who tells you that there is no harm in it? It can only be a libertine, or a flighty and worldly girl, who are trying to smother their remorse of conscience as best they can. Well, there are priests, you say, who do not speak about it in confession or who, without permitting it, do not refuse absolution for it. Ah! I do not know whether there are priests who are so blind, but I am sure that those who go looking for easygoing priests are going looking for a passport which will lead them to Hell. For my own part, if I went dancing, I should not want to receive absolution not having a real determination not to go back to dancing.

      Anonymous 5:07 AM Did St. John the Baptist feel good using his emotions and feelings, or was he a masochist for mortifying his body constantly?

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    13. Anon @5:07. Do you claim to be equal with St. John? I know my station in life and I am no St. John. Perhaps you are a more holy person than I am. What is wrong with a healthy balance? People tend to get into trouble when they stray from the middle ground. In medio stat veritas - the truth stands in the middle!!

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    14. @anon7:15
      Ok. You are correct that Protestants are not true Christians, they are heretics. However, I once saw a billboard here in the city that said, “One day Christ will return. Find out more about Him.” There was no identifiable organization or person—it was placed anonymously. It might have been a Protestant or Eastern Schismatic or V2 sect. It could also have been Traditionalist. Is there anything in that message you find heretical or immoral? It actually made me think of the state of my soul!

      CCM can have that effect on those getting out of secular music. I can’t honestly think you believe a Skillet song like “You Are My Hope” isn’t better than “Highway to Hell” by AC/DC.

      As to World Youth Day, the whole thing is a joke and not because of the music. Becoming Protestant is just switching false sects—from Vatican II sect to a Protestant sect. Both are false religions.

      As to dancing, I will look up Church teaching on the subject. St John Vianney was not a theologian or canonist and his sermon (taken in context) is about salacious dances. My parents attended parish dances in the early 1950s with full approval from the bishop of the diocese.

      As to St John the Baptist, he had a special calling. Do we all need to eat a strict diet of locusts and honey too?

      —-Introibo

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    15. No, we don't have to eat a strict diet of locusts and honey too, because it's not the law. But I can assure you that we are all called to do penance and be saints.

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    16. Anon @9:52 - There is Penance and then there is beating yourself up unmercifully for being human and having feelings. Introibo - I am not sure, but isn’t the latter gnostic? Thanks.

      JoAnn

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    17. Thank you for your reply. I was passing through Ohio one time on I-71 and there was and big billboard sign that said "Hell is Real and Eternity is Forever." Then the next sign after that had the 10 Commandments but of course they were the Protestant version. The first sign made me think of the state of my soul, the second one made me think of the sad state of any protestant soul.

      I honestly don't think Skillet is worse than AC/DC in the obvious sense, but in the sense that the "christian" crowd is more inclined to follow them, I do think it's worse because they're more influential of that crowd and I don't believe they should have anything to do with that music any more than AC/DC. But that's just me.

      From your point of view World Youth Day was a given because you already had the Faith. As for myself at the time as a Novus ordo member I and a few others knew it was ridiculous as is everything in the Novus Ordo but what was even more ridiculous is how they used Christian Rock music to appeal to the young (people my age) to lure everybody in. It was known as "Catholic Woodstock" but of course we know what it was really about. Ecumenism.

      From what I've understood St. John Vianney had group dances so long as parents and family were involved but he didn't really tolerate much of anything else. That's why I showed you the excerpt from his sermon that had a Church Council from France which condemned having dances at weddings. WEDDINGS! Back in the 1800's when most people wore full clothing. Hence the reason he said "For my own part, if I went dancing, I should not want to receive absolution not having a real determination not to go back to dancing." Full sermon here: https://www.olrl.org/snt_docs/dancing.shtml

      My point with St. John the Baptist to Anonymous was to show that penance and self denial shouldn't to be looked at as masochist but a good thing since we need to do more of it. I'm not against having fun, but against things that lead or draw the near occasion to sin.

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    18. @anon10:55
      Thank you for your reply. I understand your point of view and while we may not be in complete agreement, I thank you for commenting. Much of what you just wrote is reasonable.

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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    19. @Joann
      Yes. The self-hatred is Gnostic and/or Manichaean.

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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    20. Anonymous 8:32

      Lukewarm souls are in the middle to. As scripture says, He'll spit them out. Apoc 3:16 Originally you exaggerated the use of Masochism when you used that word to describe penance (like you were mocking it). Penance isn't just saying three hail Mary's after confession or abstaining from meat on Fridays. Those are commands by the Church. Voluntary penance is good for the soul and necessary. Jesus says "unless you do penance you will likewise perish." Luke 13:3 Following the saints example is all I'm saying. Go study a few of them and see why God was so pleased with them. I'm not comparing myself to them. I'm not promoting the Flagellants who were condemned by the Church by Pope Clement VI when they got extreme. I'm just sick and tired of so-called trad Catholics making excuses for everything just because they have to have something as if they can't live without it (smart phone, Chrisitan rock, endless sports watching, etc). In my mind these people love worldly pleasure more than God. If you want to have fun go right ahead. As St. John Bosco said have all the fun you want so long as you don't sin while having fun. I'll end by saying this "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. Matt 5:29

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    21. 1: One thing is living for your flesh and then hating yourself. 2: Mortification is actually loving yourself because this may shatter your evil inclinations and leave you to Heaven.
      3: Maybe you can not avoid feel good - the point is not to be a slave of it, and bearing suffering bravely.
      For Greater Glory of God,
      Long Life Christ the King and Our Virgin of Guadalupe.

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    22. AMEN Poni Albinegro

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    23. Anon @12:58 - I was merely trying to convey that any behavior can be taken to an extreme. I was not referencing love or reverence for God so as to be lukewarm.

      Delete
  18. Please continue the series. Quoting the lyrics (in full if needs be) is the key factor as it exposes what ideas and ideals their authors propagate. Their private lives may influence what they write and sing (and the other way round) but, as Mel Gibson's example shows us, leading a "private" life that is one big scandal doesn't necessarily prevent one from creating Catholic art and spreading Catholic ideas. So: the lyrics are the crux of the matter. Of course, the ideal combination would be an artist whose life and work "co~respond" but there seems to be some scarcity of them nowadays. The best example of an extraordinary artist [from my country (POLAND)] who combined professional excellence with moral life might be CYPRIAN KAMIL NORWID. This poet, prose writer, painter, sculptor, litographist etc. etc. seemed to have been endowed by God with such mastery of execution (of his works) in direct relationship with his orthodoxy. God bless you and keep up the good work exposing evil musicians for what they are. PaweĊ‚ Antoniewicz (Wirtualne Wydawnictwo Wiwo)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for the thoughtful response my friend!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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    2. I agree that quoting the lyrics is important. We are not in pre-vii times. Children have no business on the internet, and you don't have to be a SV to understand that; even secularist can understand that.

      At some point, priests had to view the movies they were banning.... Thanks to the great apostasy, thats up to us now!

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    3. @Unknown,
      Another excellent point to consider! Thank you!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

      Delete
    4. Unknown @ 4:24 am

      No, it's not *important* to transcribe sexually explicit lyrics. Get real!- and grab a "Sensus Catholicus" while you're at it.

      Correct, we are not in pre-Vatican II tines, BUT the legal and moral principles well and truly still apply. Or do think it's an anarchic free-for-all?

      If you leave money lying around and the maid steals it, you are culpable for being negligent/careless insofar presenting a temptation for one to sin.

      It's NOT all about children being on the Internet without permission. That is one aspect only. Kids being on the Internet is one thing, and people publishing innapropiate material for them to see is quite another, millstone-around-the-neck inducing, scandalous thing. Do you get it now?

      I suggest that you read some moral theology. A woman smiling at a man and flicking her hair can be enough to start the ball rolling ibsofar impure thoughts. You may think that that's incredulous, but it's true. It depends on the individual.

      Obviously explicit text can be arousing to both sexes, evidenced by the modern practice known as "sexting." But you don't have to be a sedevacantist to understand all that; even/obviously secularists understand.

      No, it is NOT up to you to view filthy movies. You are NOT a priest. And besides, movies nowadays are rated for you. Any Catholic with even half a brain can work out that all movies with a higher than "G" rating are most probably problematic, at best.

      Thanks to the Great Apostasy and the consequent moral decline, Catholics need to be on their guard more so than at any other time in history!


      Delete
  19. Perhaps you can post every other month or once a quarter instead of monthly.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Please, please continue. Before I found Christ, I was enamoured by music. Your posts help expose these demonic influences.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glad it helped and thank you for the feedback. I’m considering all options at this point!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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  21. Please continue these posts. They are my favourite on your site.
    God bless you Introibo!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for the feedback my friend!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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  22. I think you should continue this series as is. I also think the lyrics need to be thee to back up your evidence otherwise it won't be as forceful. Perhaps you can keep the really nasty stuff out as I think there is usually more than enough tp rove your points. Most of the bands you have listed I never listened to but was quite surprised just how even some go them wee. For the ones I did listen to, I never realized how bad they were as I never really understood the lyrics or put them in their context. The Springsteen song is a good example where I never realized he was stalking a young girl. Keep up the good work!

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  23. JoAnn @ 9:52

    Your point about beating oneself up for having feelings being a good or rational thing was never under dispute. It's not a good thing or rational thing. I was just pointing out that we aren't required to eat a diet of locusts and honey nor are we required to self-flaggelate and wear a hair shirt for that matter. But if you don't do penance you will go to Hell, and God calls all of us to be saints.

    P.S. It sounds more like it's Jansenistic than Gnostic. :)

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    Replies
    1. Anon @11:43. Sorry that I misinterpreted what you were trying to convey. Yes, I know we are all required to do Penance and are called to be Saints.

      JoAnn

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  24. The series is very useful and enlightening. You can continue if you wish.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the feedback Junior!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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  25. As to dancing: Theologians McHugh and Callan teach that dances are obscene in themselves when the postures, movements or contact with the dancers is indecent; they are obscene by reason of the dancers when these are indecently attired. They also point out “It is not always easy to determine in particular cases when a thing is obscene from its very nature...”

    (See “Moral Theology” 1:575)

    There is no blanket condemnation of dancing per se.

    —-Introibo

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  26. So if there is no such thing as an "evil beat" in music, yet dancing in itself when the postures, movements or contact with the dancers is indecent, then how can one perform anything like that without the beat in music? Are not the beats in music the reason people tend to want to dance?

    Let's pick on Tango as an example

    From Wiki:
    The rhythm of the modern tango holds the 2/4 or 4/4 beats per measure with two upbeats and two downbeats, with frequent use of accented notes, nostalgic lyrics, sudden changes in dynamics, use of slides (glissandi), often use of staccato (march-like phrases), intense but melancholic mood and freedom for improvisation that is fueled by its old jazz origins.

    Notice how these beats refer to something musical.

    Pope St. Pius X "The tango, which has already been condemned by illustrious Bishops and is prohibited even in Protestant countries, must be absolutely prohibited in the see of the Roman Pontiff, the centre of the Catholic religion." He urged the clergy to courageously raise their voices "to defend the sanctity of Christian customs against the threatening danger and overwhelming immorality of the new paganism." He also warned parents that if they do not protect their children from such corruption, they will be guilty before God of failing in their most sacred duties. (The New York Times, January 16, 1914).



    ReplyDelete
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    1. I hope you see the problem. Can you listen to Tango music and not dance? Yes. Is it possible to dance tamely with a certain beat? Yes. Therefore it’s not the beat that’s evil, anymore than the dance per se. Read what the theologians taught. They did NOT condemn all dancing nor specific beats.

      —-Introibo

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  27. My dear friend, I never heard of Skillet before reading these comments. Therefore, I did a little research on their music. My findings:

    1. Some of their songs are heretical. For instance, their song "My Religion" advocates a "Jesus Only" religion which outright rejects Catholicism. The lyrics read:

    Who’s gonna save us all
    Nothing and nobody but you
    Who’s gonna make me whole
    Nothing and nobody but you
    Can’t change me, sway me
    Don’t know what to make of me
    You got my devotion fanatical though it may be
    I love your mind, heart, body and soul
    You’re the only sanctuary that I know

    I don’t need to stare at stained glass and a steeple
    I don’t need to dress to impress all other people
    Don’t need no priest, don’t need no pew
    You are my religion, my religion is you
    I don’t need no other purpose, you give me a reason
    Ain’t their business what I wanna believe in
    You are my priest, you are my truth
    You are my religion, my religion is you

    Who’s gonna heal my pain
    Nothing makes me feel like you do
    Who can drive my demons away
    Nothing makes me heal like you do
    I love your mind, heart, body and soul
    You’re the only sanctuary that I know

    I don’t need to stare at stained glass and a steeple
    I don’t need to dress to impress all other people
    Don’t need no priest, don’t need no pew
    You are my religion, my religion is you
    I don’t need no other purpose, you give me a reason
    Ain’t their business what I wanna believe in
    You are my priest, you are my truth
    You are my religion, my religion is you

    Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
    That saved a wretch like me, oh oh oh

    Mind, heart, soul, and strength belong to you, belong to me
    Got my devotion, I will follow where you lead
    I won’t be told what to feel and how to show
    My love can’t be stopped love you any way I want

    I don’t need to stare at stained glass and a steeple
    I don’t need to dress to impress all other people
    Don’t need no priest, don’t need no pew
    You are my religion, my religion is you
    I don’t need no other purpose, you give me a reason
    Ain’t their business what I wanna believe in
    You are my priest, you are my truth
    You are my religion, my religion is you

    You are my religion, my religion is you
    You are my religion, my religion is you
    You are my religion, my religion is you

    2. They aren’t Catholic and their music leads people to think you don’t have to be Catholic. The heresy that the Catholic Church and the Sacraments have nothing to do with salvation radiates from their music. Their music keeps Protestants Protestant because this music acts like bond with these people. I know many Protestants "addicted" to "Christian" rock music and they are hopelessly lost. They don't listen to Truth and aren't even interested in Catholicism because they think they have a true and good relationship with Jesus. They "feel" right with Jesus.

    I actually think your series on Devil's Music should include some of these so-called Christian rock groups and you can include an 8th element, HERESY and a Rebellion to Catholicism.

    Other than that, I think you're doing a great job with your website. One of the finest out there. God bless!

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    1. @Saddlery
      Thank you for the kind words my friend! Yes, I’m aware that there is heresy in some of the songs of CCM. Here is what I wrote in my original post of 8/7/17:

      “CCM is Protestant, but most of it is general in theology (love of God and neighbor). If the lyrics are theologically heretical, avoid that particular song. I'm not advocating CCM, nor am I condemning it, since it is a viable alternative (especially for kids) to the secular music. It certainly does not belong in Church, but it is (for the most part) a wholesome alternative that makes us think of God.”

      The song you cite is heretical and to be avoided. CCM is a temporary alternative for those listening to Satanic trash! There are unobjectionable songs from Skillet as well as Stryper, Tourniquet, etc. This is a good substitute for those getting out of secular music, until they no longer need it.

      You are correct that they are heretics but they don’t conceal the fact they’re Protestant and no Public Traditionalist bands exist to the best of my knowledge and belief.

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

      Delete
    2. So you're saying that certain CCM songs must me avoided if heretical, immoral, etc. but if they have some songs that aren't objectionable in any other way it's okay. Understood. Can a person listen to secular rock songs that aren't objectionable too?

      Example: Guns N Roses "Sweet child of Mine"
      She's got a smile it seems to me
      Reminds me of childhood memories
      Where everything
      Was as fresh as the bright blue sky
      Now and then when I see her face
      She takes me away to that special place
      And if I'd stare too long
      I'd probably break down and cry
      Oh, oh, oh
      Sweet child o' mine
      Oh, oh, oh, oh
      Sweet love of mine
      She's got eyes of the bluest skies
      As if they thought of rain
      I hate to look into those eyes
      And see an ounce of pain
      Her hair reminds me of a warm safe place
      Where as a child I'd hide
      And pray for the thunder
      And the rain
      To quietly pass me by
      Oh, oh, oh
      Sweet child o' mine
      Oh, oh, oh, oh
      Sweet love of mine
      Oh, oh, oh, oh
      Sweet child o' mine
      Oh, oh, oh, oh
      Sweet love of mine
      Oh, oh, oh, oh
      Sweet child o' mine
      Oh yeah yeah
      Oh oh sweet love of mine
      Where do we go?
      Where do we go now?
      Where do we go?
      Oh, oh
      Where do we go?
      (Where do we go now?)
      Oh where do we go now? (Where do we go?)
      Where do we go? (Sweet child)
      Oh where do we go now?
      Ay ay ay ay (where do we go now, where do we go)
      Oh where do we go now?
      Where do we go?
      Oh, where do we go now?
      Oh, where do we go?
      Oh where do we go now?
      Where do we go?
      Oh, where do we go now?
      No, no, no, no, no, no
      Sweet child
      Sweet child of mine

      Guns N Roses are over all as bad as the rest of your singing for Satan series, but if we're to go by the logic you said, then certain songs are allowable. Is that correct?

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    3. No. The CCM songs are not IMMORAL. They do not contain the seven evil elements I listed. There are no CCM musicians glorifying Satan worship and living like heathens. Big difference.

      As a matter of fact, they have “morality clauses” in their contracts. If they are caught doing something immoral they lose their royalties and all rights to perform with the contract rendered null and void. One such band had this happen when the singer admitted to having an adulterous affair.

      Can you imagine that happening to Axle Rose? Think he’s a good guy? I know lots of good people who are material heretics. Can’t say the same for the secularist rockers!

      —-Introibo

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    4. Now you're saying we can listen only to non heretical songs by a heretical Protestant group (if we need to), but we can't listen to any songs that are from any secular rock group.

      Skillet dresses immoral and they have tatoos all over them. Picture here http://www.skillet.com/brave?ref=https://www.google.com/
      They don't look or act much different in their music videos than a lot of the secularist garbage. So, even if the lyrics themselves aren't immoral (that I know of) the music videos don't set a good example (immoral).

      Delete
    5. 1: I agree that protestant rock may help as methadone, but i think protestant rock music is neither reverent nor something i would listen to. Tough, for us traditionalists, it is more secular.
      2: I think that you can try making the jump between rock and classical music without CCM. You can make this to give more Glory to God, as you are listening something new which you do not like so much.
      3: Even some classical music has its own problems - most opera is not very decent, for example - this life is a constant war.
      4: Tango beat is similar to beats found in arabic music, reggaeton. Actually, reggaeton and arabic music beats are very similar. Just saying.
      5: Off topic.. I think that protestant theology can cause atheism. I mean, there is no point on Christianity if humanity was redeemed in some year in the ancient age but the true Church came 15 centuries later.
      For greater Glory of God,
      Long Life Christ the King and Our Lady of Guadalupe.

      Delete
    6. It does fall under the your list of 7

      6. Rebellion against lawful superiors

      Skillet sings in "My Religion"

      Don’t need no priest, don’t need no pew
      You are my religion, my religion is you...
      You are my priest, you are my truth
      You are my religion, my religion is you

      So I guess we can all be home aloners because we don't need no priest or sacraments or even obedience to the Church, since all we need is Christ. Believe or not I've actually heard a couple "traditional" "Catholic's" say things like that. A lady from your glorious state of New York said to me "You don't need to listen to those dead popes and dead saints. All you need is Our Lord and Our Lady." Isn't that just wonderful advice. It's not from "Christian rock music or Vatican II that she says this, but because of pure stupidity.

      Delete
    7. @anon11:12
      It’s the lyrics and lifestyle that makes groups good or bad. Once more the inability to make distinctions is missing. The lifestyle of the secular groups is immersed in the occult and the open glorification of the Satanic. CCM also has moral standards with a morality clause, unheard of in the music industry elsewhere.

      You really think a Skillet video is as bad as Ozzy Osbourne or Nirvana?

      Perhaps you’re right. There’s no difference between a material Protestant heretic trying to do good and occultists that worship Satan. Does that version of “reality” appeal to you?

      Everyone goes to Hell except the Dimond brothers. Yeah. Thanks for setting us all straight.

      —-Introibo

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    8. @poni,
      You make some good and interesting points!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

      Delete
    9. I agree with Poni. I still like your writings Introibo and I'll keep reading, just CCM rejects your 6th evil element on your list. 6. Rebellion against lawful superiors. They sing "Don’t need no priest, don’t need no pew. You are my religion, my religion is you they sing." If we don't need any priest, then we don't need any sacraments, if we don't need any sacraments, then we don't need any religion. Like I said, their Christ is a made up version that doesn't exist. You cannot have Christ without His Divinely instituted Church which was established to teach, govern and sanctify all people.

      If you want my honest opinion about the Dimond brothers, here it is. They reject Baptism of desire and blood which is heresy. They reject the Blessed Virgin Mary as Co-Redemptorix which is heresy. They say you can't support any sedevacantist group financially and yet they go to a Eastern Rite Church united to Francis, which is hypocrisy. They lied under court of law against a good man named Eric H. They call people at 1-2 A.M. at night when they are ready to debate (who does that?). Total scum and because of them many people don't want to become sedevacantist.

      Delete
    10. @anon11:32 and 12:38
      You misunderstood #6. Here I’m talking about rebellion against parents and the law as when Judas Priest sings “Break the Law.”

      CCM are material heretics and do not recognize the True Authority that resides with the Church. They do not intentionally incite disobedience as do the secular groups.

      I do not endorse nor condemn CCM as I stated in my original post of 8/7/17. Yet you would deny the use of CCM to those trying to break the (truly) demonic hold of secular rock pop and rap music.

      The Dimonds are indeed heretics. (Although I do believe Mary is Co-Redemptrix it is not heresy to deny it. See my post: http://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2017/02/is-mary-our-co-redemptrix.html?m=1)
      That was not my point. In medio stat veritas. In the middle lies the truth. People need to belong to the Church to be saved. However, God can give the Faith and Grace outside the Sacraments. By failing to make distinctions, Universalisits deny the necessity of the Church by a heretical conception of belonging to the Church by desire. Likewise, in attempting to affirm the necessity of the Church, Feeneyites deny that God can (or will ) save someone apart from the Sacrament Of Baptism.

      It is true that CCM is heretical and not ideal. It is also true that it helps many out of the secular music with its occult and evil influence. In trying to stress the first part, you deny the second part, and make material heretics acting in good faith on par with those involved with Satanism.

      This is just plain false.

      —-Introibo

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    11. Hi Introibo,

      Here's some information from one of those "good will" protestants. This is from a protestant site against ALL types of rock music.

      I was always of the belief that "rock 'n'roll" is a metaphor for intercourse, and tbat the rock and roll beat comes straight from tne demonic African, pagan cultures.

      Testimony:

      "In April 1990, a Christian from Zimbabwe, Africa, arrived for his first visit to the United States. He is a native missionary under the Awana Youth Association. When he turned on a Christian radio station and listened to the music, he was shocked. Here is his report:"

      "I am very sensitive to the beat in music, because when I was a boy, I played the drums in our village worship rituals. The beat that I played on the drum was to get the demon spirits into the people.

      "When I became a Christian, I rejected this kind of beat because I realized how damaging it was.

      “When I turned on a Christian radio station in the United States, I was shocked. The same beat that I used to play to call up the evil spirits is in the music I heard on the Christian station.”

      — Stephen Maphosah, Zimbabwe, Africa

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    12. @anon2:06
      I think you hit the nail on the head. You don’t believe that non-Catholics (material) can be in good faith. If that were true, none would (or could) convert.

      I don’t know who Stephen Maphosah is or why I should believe him. If he’s not a Traditionalist he can’t be in good faith, right? So why do you believe HIM??

      I have NEVER read any theologians or canonists who held that possession could be achieved by the beat of certain music. If that were true, the Church would have warned against it and had something to say to exorcists about it.

      This is a classic fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc—-after this because of this. The rooster crows and the sun rises, so the crowing made the sun rise. If a certain type of music is used, there are incantations—-the direct calling upon—demons. That couldn’t possibly have anything to do with it. Just play the music and watch the possession occur.

      If you don’t like CCM, fine. Please don’t condemn its use by those trying to escape the truly evil.

      —-Introibo

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    13. Introibo. Anon (me) at 2:06 is a new anon and not an anon you've been previously sparring with.

      Now, you got it all wrong - I DO THINK that Protestant Christians can (and do) act in good faith, and that when it comes to certain matters they are absolutely correct. Protestants have been protesting rock music for decades. They make very good points. Many of them attest to the rock and roll beat being the beat used when the witch doctors call down the evil spirits. Now, if you don't think that Satan has musical preferences, and that it's just a coincidence that his demonic rock gods/minions (musicians) use this same beat to mesmerize and addict their listeners, that's fine. I was just giving you some information and that my understanding is that the term "rock and roll" means sexual intercourse. And that the beat in rock and roll music is primal, sexual in nature and definitely one of its problems; that it's believed it excites people carnally.

      I hear what you're saying about the theologians, but the point to remember is that the real beginnings of the rock and roll era coincided with Vatican II. Without an infiltration of the Vatican the theologians may have pronounced against the rock and roll beat (?).

      You've made a point about performers of Christian rock signing morality clauses, and as long as you only listen to the "good" songs all is fine.

      You can't conflate the morals of an individual or group with something being good or evil.

      Something is either good or bad. A person is either good or bad. One is not dependent upon the other. A person being bad/immoral doesn't mean that all the songs they sing are bad by default.

      Imagine if you applied your principle to watching movies? Actors and actresses of ill repute can and do act in good movies. We decide to watch their movies based on whether the movie is good or bad, not whether one or all of the actors have morality issues.

      So, I now seek your opinion - The beat of rock and roll isn't evil per se, check! The lyrics to the Beatles song "Penny Lane" don't appear to be immoral, check! So is there anything wrong with someone listening to it?

      And if your objection is that the Beatles also sing bad (in whatever way e.g. heretical) songs too, so we shouldn't support them, then a Christian singer/group doing the same thing is surely also a "no, no" on the same principle.

      Remember: We're not talking about the gravity i.e., heresy vs. satanism --- we're talking about the principle being applied to good and bad things and good and bad people.

      Delete
    14. Rebellion to lawful superiors can also mean clergy in the Church. Not just parents and the law. Therefore, Skillet's song aimed at that in its lyrics. If you don't endorse them nor condemn them, then why would you suggest listening to their music as an alternative? Is that not promoting their music?

      How do you know they (CRM) are just all "material" heretics? Do you have some kind of Divine incite telling you that they are all just innocently mistaken? The Roman Catechism (Trent) says on Page 107... "And just as this one Church cannot err in faith or morals, since it is guided by the Holy Ghost; so, on the contrary, ALL OTHER SOCIETIES arrogating to themselves the name of church, must necessarily, because GUIDED by the SPIRIT of the DEVIL, be SUNK in the most pernicious errors, both doctrinal and moral.”

      They are apart of a society lead by the devil, which means they are lead by the devil in their beliefs about Jesus and this is why we see this in the fruits of their music. One could say secularists are not intentionally going against True Authority if they wanted. I do not presume they're innocent any more than I do the secularists. They are all on the side of the devil. Are you actually going to still contend that they are all just innocently mistaken?

      P.S. Thank you for the link to your article about Mary as Co-Redemptorix. I was wrong for saying what I said about that in an earlier comment. I still believe she is the Co-Redemptorix because it makes sense to me why she would be. Those Dimond Bros. are some sick son of guns.

      Delete
    15. @ anon3:39
      If these beats were being used in Africa by pagan witch doctors as the cause of possession, it would certainly pre-date Vatican II by many years. To say rock beats didn't exist prior to the 1960s, would mean they weren't in Africa being used either.

      One pre-Vatican II canonist who did speak to the issue was Fr. DePauw, JCD. He was accused of singing an evil song--"Holy God We Praise Thy Name"! He gave a sermon that there is NO INTRINSICALLY EVIL MUSIC, it's the lyrics that make a song evil. There is a Protestant version of "Holy God" and the Catholic version. Father used the Catholic version of course.

      The fact that no approved pre-Vatican II theologian, or canonist ever condemned any form of music per se, nor has Holy Mother Church condemned any form of music--in spite of missionaries and exorcists being in Africa for centuries.

      The lack of any such condemnation, the lack of any warning to people, or instructions about the ability of music to cause possession to appointed exorcists, weighs heavily against your contention (to say the least). In addition, the testimony of this African man (not a theologian or a Church-approved exorcist) carries no weight. I'm sure there's a witness to Elvis celebrating his 84th birthday in the local supermarket on January 8th--and I give that no credence either.

      I agree that something is either good or bad in itself. However, the way it is being used can make its use moral or immoral. A gun can be used in self-defense (moral) or to murder someone (immoral). However, there is a real danger in secular rock that does NOT exist in CCM, and you ignore it.

      The song "I wanna Hold Your Hand" by The Beatles is innocuous. Music is neither good nor bad. Therefore, it is OK to listen to "I Wanna Hold Your Hand." With iTunes, you can download specific songs, so you can just download unobjectionable ones. I have three problems:

      1. The royalties collected by The Beatles, and those who promote them, have a primary goal of promoting immorality and sin. They WANT people to chant "Hare Krishna" to the demon "gods" of Hinduism. CCM artists WANT TO DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT. They promote decent morals (NOT to kill, steal, fornicate, etc.)and their heretical views do not entail the worship of Satan or immersion in the occult. What about movies? I say that the same principle applies. Anton LeVey was in the 1975 movie "The Devil's Rain." Even if he were in a happy-go lucky, G-Rated movie, one should not knowingly give money to promote someone who is a known Satanist. You fill his coffers and may give him a platform to entice others into his worship of evil. If you've followed this series of posts ALL of the artists and bands have had occultic/Satanic connections and promote vicious evils. This is unparalleled.

      2. Many young people look up to rock stars, and attempt to emulate them. Do you want them to emulate a Protestant in good faith, investigate the claims of Christ and perhaps find the whole Truth in the One True Church--or a devil worshiper who knows what he's doing and desires to drag others into his sorry state? (Continued below)

      Delete
    16. 3. There is a very real danger that listening to an innocuous song by The Beatles will lead to wanting more of their music. Some songs have backward masked messages. Soon, they rationalize downloading other songs that are not innocent. In the worst CCM scenario, I'm not worried about someone hearing "Come to my heretical Protestant sect and go to Hell with me" backward masked on a heretical Skillet song.

      Finally, as I've stated many times I neither support nor condemn CCM and think it a viable bridge away from the Satanic stuff. Even theological giants like McHugh and Callan taught that “It is not always easy to determine in particular cases when a thing is obscene from its very nature...” They had a hard time applying Church principles to particular cases. With no Magisterial authority to decide this, we should be free to listen to (or not listen to) CCM as a break-away from Satanic secular rock, pop, and rap.

      ---Introibo

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    17. @anon4:29
      I know how I used the term in #6[I wrote it myself!], so it was not meant to apply to clergy.

      I don't endorse the use of methadone. However, those who need it may lawfully use it. I believe the same holds for CCM.

      How do I know that CCM artists are material heretics? According to theologians McHugh and Callan, "..those who were born and brought up in Protestantism, and who in good faith accept the confession of their denomination, are not formal but material heretics." (See "Moral Theology"1:310). I don't know of any apostate CCM artists. Since they were born and raised post-1964, they would have very little opportunity to know the True Church in the Great Apostasy. Most know the Vatican II sect and think IT is the "Catholic Church" Can you blame them for not wanting anything to do with Bergoglio? In that they have better sense than most. Trent made that decree at the time of the Protestant Deformation, and was aimed at THOSE FORMAL HERETICS.

      You're right about the Dimond brothers.

      ---Introibo

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    18. McHugh and Callan are correct. Protestants in good faith are material and formal heretics. The problem is you don't know which ones are material and formal. Material heretics implies somebody is innocently ignorant. That is an internal forum issue. Therefore not all protestants are material heretics. McHugh and Callan are speaking objectively and not subjectively. As far as we are concerned they are formal heretics? Novus Ordoians are much closer to the truth than what they have (I used to be one) and protestants in my area hate Catholicism. I've talked to many of them when I was in school and they do exactly what R&Rers do when it comes to defending their positions. Change the subject, don't deal with the issues, pick and choose, stubbornly refuse to adhere to, or simply drop an issue because they know where it's going. It's presumptuous to say they have more sense than most.

      The fact is protestant societies are lead by the devil, which you seem to deny. The fact that you promote CRM as an alternative, which you should not do, leads people their music which is not holy either in their lyrics or in their music videos. I don't think you and I will ever agree on this issue if you will continue to defend them (CRM) in some way.

      Delete
    19. Thanks for that, Introibo.

      I never said, nor did I imply, that the rock and roll beat is the *cause* of demonic possession. I think you're confusing me with a different anonymous poster. What I did say is that there is much (not just the one man from Zimbabwe) testimony that it is the music/beat that accompanies witch doctors when they call down evil spirits. I've told you twice what "rock and roll" is said to mean. And I now add that the beat is described as essentially a "dance rhythm."

      You concede that a bad person can do good or neutral things, and that certain Beatles songs are completely unobjectionable, and therefore one can listen to them. But you have 3 objections.

      You say that the royalties of the Beatles and those who promote them etc. ... they want you to chant hare Krishna to the Hindu god... Is that the gist of it? We shouldn't support them on that basis...can't even listen to those harmless songs because due to "1" it's wrong? We won't even worry about "2" and "3" - he who proves too much proves nothing.

      On the basis of "1", you need to avoid movies, period. Do you know how many people in Hollywood are hooked on Hinduism, Kaballah, Buddhism, Satanism and every other satanic error imaginable? Do you realize that the profits and royalties go to support the very same things you object to as far as the Beatles'songs?

      The thing is, Introibo, I agree with you that the Beatles should be eschewed. Avoided on principle. I don't think I'm overlooking anything, but I think you are.

      If one emulates a protestant CCM star with a tattoo who dresses immodestly, one could very well end up lost in her false religion too, and consequently still end up in Hell. It's not always a blue sky scenario as you suggest.

      The other thing people need to know is that it very often works out the other way round ---that CCM/gospel music is the gateway to secular rock and roll. There are countless examples - Avril Lavigne instantly springs to mind.

      And finally, you are sadly detached/out of the loop if you think that the people behind "Skillet" are automatically espousing all that is Christian, good and wholesome. Many so-called "Christians" believe and promote some pretty awful stuff nowadays. For example: Many of them believe that sins committed alone are, in fact, not sins! They go about promoting every heresy and error known to man. They need to be avoided like the plague. A doctor doesn't pussyfoot around with cancer, cutting it out slowly, bit by bit --- he gets in there and cuts it out completely with no mercy. That's the behavior that should emulated insofar rock and roll addiction/obsession.

      Delete
    20. I'm sorry, this is Anon 6:21. I meant McHugh and Callan are correct. Protestants in good faith are material heretics. The added formal part was a typo

      Delete
    21. @anon6:21 and 6:27
      So close in time, I'm assuming you're one and the same person (doesn't matter, really).

      As to formal and material heresy, once more from McHugh and Callan, "Even those who are ignorant of their errors through grave fault and hold them firmly, are guilty, not of formal heresy, but of sinful ignorance." Again, an example of a material heretic"...non-Catholics who do not accept the Catholic Church, but who have never had misgivings about the tenets of their own denomination, or who in doubts have searched for the truth to the best of their ability." (Ibid above, pgs. 310-311).

      In the Great Apostasy, and given their being raised in a false sect, they are far more likely to be material as opposed to formal heretics--especially since formal heresy is not imputed among those who hold onto their errors "through GRAVE FAULT." We are, of course, NOT talking about loss of office of clerics to whom malice is presumed. Your contention about "innocent[ly] ignorant" is thus refuted--it could be through a sinfully grave fault.

      I was raised in the Vatican II sect, and converted at age 16 in 1981 to the True Church. I can tell you that I have been the victim of the worst hate and discrimination from the clergy and members of the Vatican II sect than from ANY Protestant of JEW I've ever known!! The Vatican II sect pretends to be the Catholic Church and brings souls to Hell in the name of Catholicism. Far worse than Protestants who ADMIT they are not Catholic!

      That all false sects are of Satanic origin admitted; that adherents of Satanism and Protestantism are "lead by the devil" in the same sense and to the same degree, denied. It doesn't even take a theologian to figure that one out.

      The beat accompanies witch doctors. OK, that still (if true) does not explain the complete lack of ecclesiastical warnings and teaching on the subject, in spite of this going on for centuries.

      Rock and roll was a 1950s term for sexual intercourse. When a few DJs started using the term it stuck. The term is lost on most today, and DJs from a half century ago were looking for shock value not making theological or moral pronouncements.

      On the basis of #1 I wrote above most movies SHOULD be avoided. You got that correct.

      You write, "We won't even worry about "2" and "3" - he who proves too much proves nothing."
      Translation: "I can't answer what you wrote, so I'll dismiss it with a quip that proves zilch."

      If one emulates Ozzy Osbourne and then emulates e.g. John Cooper of Skillet, it's a move in the right direction--there's hope.

      Yes, there are people who have gone from good music to bad, but that's in spite of the music's message. People have also gone from Catholicism in the 1500s to Protestantism--therefore the Catholic Church is the gateway to Protestantism???

      Yes, there are some Protestants who espouse things that are evil. These are mostly your theologically liberal sects, not the "evangelicals" who mostly make up CCM. I don't know of ANY CCM band that promotes "self-abuse" in their songs, or anything even close to what the secular singers give us. You cite no examples of CCM songs promoting murder, suicide, or even self-abuse.

      Sometimes cancer can't be cut out. You need radiation and chemo. They are bad, but it's better than the cancer cells. My friend was cured 9 years ago from Stage 3 cancer because of it. He no loner needs it.

      Thank you for giving me a good analogy!

      ---Introibo

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    22. Introibo,

      What about just going cold turkey out of the rock n roll scene? People go cold turkey out of alcoholism and off of drugs. What is so different about giving up music cold turkey?

      JoAnn

      Delete
    23. Joann,
      You certainly can Joann. However, some people are not that strong and they need a substitute. I've known people who got off drugs cold turkey, and someone who used methadone. I'm not going to condemn someone who wasn't as strong yet did the right thing. He is clean, sober and a good family man.

      Just like with "Una Cum" Masses, it is something that individuals must decide to use or not.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    24. Introibo, I'm anon @ 6:27, and only anon @ 6:27. I really wish you'd cease making rash assumptions.

      Please look again: I did actually end up addressing "2" and "3". And as IF you address every point in posts made to you. And my point was that one point is surely enough if each one supposedly proves your case.

      Lol Er...most Catholics weren't taking part in voodoo and witch doctor rituals...that's probably why it wasn't treated. I'd say the theologians had better things to do. But if V2 didn't happen theologians may have very well written about rock music and its rhythm. Didn't I make that point before?

      "If one emulates Ozzy Osbourne and then emulates e.g. John Cooper of Skillet, it's a move in the right direction--there's hope."

      You're very big on "ifs" and blue sky and the OBVIOUS. If someone was emulating St. Gerard Majella then took notice of you and started listening to CCM and then switched and started emulating "John Cooper" of Skillet it'd be a step in the wrong direction. Hope would diminish. Obviously.

      Name a rock star that has gone from hard rock to CCM/gospel. I think you'll find it's one way traffic going the other way. And what do you mean "in spite of the music's message"? Really, Introibo? Are you sure that the real message isn't, "This soft rock has gotten. you notoriety but if you want to really become really famous you need to really rock out!" - which is exactly the message that Avril Lavigne said her start gave her.

      "Yes, there are some Protestants who espouse things that are evil."

      We're at cross purposes because you can't seem to realize that the entire Protestant movement is pure evil.

      Funnily enough, it was a group of evangelicals espousing that sins committed alone were not sins. But you missed my point entirely. Of course there isn't going to be overtly evil concepts etc. in CCM lyrics. It's always going to be the fluffy stuff... Love, peace, harmony, praise the Lord! They're all going to be smiling, being "positive" and glad-handing, saying "Alleluia, brother! Praise the Lord!" That's their job - how they have to be. How much experience do you actually have dealing with "born agains"? Now my point is that behind all the innocuous, lovely, fluffy songs and smiles are people espousing all sorts of heresies and errors. That's what you're supporting by supporting CCM. That's what you SAID you were against.

      "Sometimes cancer can't be cut out. You need radiation and chemo. They are bad, but it's better than the cancer cells. My friend was cured 9 years ago from Stage 3 cancer because of it. He no loner needs it.

      Thank you for giving me a good analogy!"

      Radiation and chemo are ALSO extremely aggressive treatments against cancer - that's WHY they sometimes work. Thanks for making my point, again.

      I'll leave the other anon to address the stuff you've directed at him/her.

      Delete
    25. @anon8:36
      You addressed backwards masked messages? That must've been backwards masked!

      You mean that for centuries the Church sent priests to convert and exorcise demons in the Dark Continent, but never wrote about a grave evil because "they had better things to do"--Yeah.

      "Name a rock star that has gone from hard rock to CCM/gospel." Kerry Livgren of Kansas, a hugely successful rock group of the 1970s--early 1980s.

      "We're at cross purposes because you can't seem to realize that the entire Protestant movement is pure evil." Not according to the theologians who distinguish between material and formal heretics. You cite Trent talking about FORMAL heretics of that era.

      "Now my point is that behind all the innocuous, lovely, fluffy songs and smiles are people espousing all sorts of heresies and errors. That's what you're supporting by supporting CCM. That's what you SAID you were against."

      Try again.I never said I support CCM. I don't know if its a learning disability or whatever. It's like methadone. I don't support methadone. I don't tell people to "go out and try some." However, if someone needs it to overcome heroin--it's permissible.

      Radiation and chemo are not good per se only per accidens. They are better than what you have, but not something you want to keep doing. It's not always successful, but it's lawful to use perfect analogy to what I wrote about CCM.

      ---Introibo

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    26. Introibo,

      "@anon8:36
      You addressed backwards masked messages? That must've been backwards masked!"

      The present anon NEVER mentioned "backwards masking."

      "You mean that for centuries the Church sent priests to convert and exorcise demons in the Dark Continent, but never wrote about a grave evil because "they had better things to do"--Yeah."

      The present anon NEVER said that the beat was the CAUSE of demonic possession. You said that I said that. The present anon NEVER said that the beat in itself was EVIL. You said that I said that. What I DID do was to present information that suggests that the beat (good or bad) is being used in the rituals where witch doctors call down evil spirits (bad thing). I gave you a common opinion of many Protestant authors as to the nature of rock and roll - which is described as technically being a dance rhythm - as essentially being sexual in nature, etc. I mentioned what the term rock and roll means. (It was being used by afro-Ameticans in 1914 in songs to indicate the sex act.)
      I DID say that had it not been for Vatican II and the infiltration (Masonic) theologians MAY have had something to say about rock and roll and the beat it utilizes. Please stop attributing things to me which I never said....or is it that you are in fact the one whom has a learning disability?

      The present anon did not cite Trent and get into discussion with you about material and formal heretics. What the present anon DID do is to make the statement that the Protestant movement (not all individual Protestants) is pure evil. Luther and his theses, King Henry the VIII breaking from Rome, etc. And I'll go on to state that in a religious sense EVERYTHING that is not Catholic is evil - Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Judaism etc.

      "Name a rock star that has gone from hard rock to CCM/gospel." Introibo: "Kerry Livgren of Kansas, a hugely successful rock group of the 1970s--early 1980s"

      Thank you, he's so famous I've never heard of him. But he was in good company in a list I found (below).

      https://www.viralbeliever.com/11

      Introibo: "Try again.I never said I support CCM..."

      Anonymous
      January 8 at 1:01 pm
      True. By the way thanks for introducing me to Skillet. Their music's pretty fun.

      January 8, 2019 at 2:33 pm
      Skillet is indeed a viable and fun alternative to the secular garbage out there!"

      —-Introibo

      Sounds like support/an endorsement to me. ??? What's missing (?) is the post where you said you listened to Skillet songs, hence the anon thanking you for introducing him to Skillet.

      Anonymous January 8, 3:36 pm

      Is Skillet that "Christian" rock/metal band located out of Memphis Tenn.? If it is I'm surprised you recommend them. ... (post continues.)

      Radiation and chemo don't pussyfoot around with cancer, *they attack it directly* (but in a different way than a knife). That was my point. My analogy, using knife or radiation and chemo, holds.

      P.S. If you're going to respond, please deal with what's in this post as separate to what other anon individuals are posting to you. Thank you.

      Delete
    27. This is Anon 6:21. I'm the one who has been giving you a hard time in lots of my replies, including the ones jumping to different subjects that somewhat have something to do with music etc. I understand your point of view, and I understand you want what's best for everybody in a true Catholic sense. We can agree to disagree on this issue and the una cum issue since you brought it up. The reason I argue is not for the sake of argument, but because I want to know why somebody believes the way they believe, when I understand it differently based on what I've read/hear etc. However, everything else you write is very informative, enlightening, and a good to tool to use as a reference. Keep up the good work and don't let this be a distraction for what you have planned in the future. You keep on writing and I'll keep on reading. God bless, my friend.

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    28. @anon6:20
      Thank you my friend! We don't need to agree on everything to be kind to each other while having strong disagreements that can prove enlightening to both ourselves (in clarifying positions) and to others. Thank you for the kind words.

      @anon4:30
      Let this be my summation of points to both you and my readers.

      1. I have continually said from day one of my series of posts that I neither endorse nor condemn CCM. To the person who thanked me for Skillet, I did not recommend it per se, I listed them as alternatives to secular rock. I don't know his life story, so if he needs them,it is a fun and viable alternative to the Satanic garbage. I recommend them as alternatives to people who need a substitute from secular rock.

      2. CCM is like methadone. I don't endorse it or condemn it; those who need it may lawfully listen to it. Analogously, radiation and chemo are not good for you, but they are better than cancer and can possible save your life. CCM attacks the cancer of secular rock and can bring you out of the messages from Hell. Some people go on to appreciate classical music or even Gregorian chant (even among non-Catholics!)

      3. There is no good or bad music. It is the lifestyles and the lyrics that are good or bad. Many young people will emulate Satanic lifestyles and can be influenced by the lyrics and backward masked messages.

      4. No approved pre-V2 theologian or canonist, nor has any Magisterial decree, condemned any particular type of music. The assertion that witch doctors use a certain beat does not prove the beat is demonic. Satanists stab the animals they sacrifice, but that doesn't mean knives are evil, or have no legitimate purpose. All that anyone has come up with is anecdotal evidence, which is very weak evidence at best.

      5. In the absence of any Magisterial pronouncement on an issue where even theologians like McHugh and Callan readily admit that it is not always easy to apply Church principles in particular cases, there should be freedom of action.

      Like the "Una Cum" Mass issue, the axiom applies: "In essentials unity, in non-essentials freedom, in all things charity. I'm not a theologian or canonist; nor are those who argue against me. Hence, if you don't think you should listen to CCM, then you should follow your conscience and shun it. However, those who feel they need it to overcome their need for secular music may do so, and not be told they can't. I'm expressing an opinion on an issue that has not been settled. Let no one make up "rules" and "sins" where we have no authority to do so. There is freedom to act.

      I stand by what I said: Skillet is indeed a viable and fun alternative to the secular garbage out there!No one who needs such a substitute should be told they are doing something wrong. Eventually, that commenter may wind up listening to Traditionalist hymns!! He's a Traditionalist, so he is certainly on the right path; and he reads my blog, so he's a smart individual as well :-)

      ---Introibo

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    29. Hi Introibo,

      It's anonymous at 4:34 here.

      Thanks for your summary, but it hasn't addressed a specific aspect of the discussion I raised. I'd like to continue the discussion to our mutual benefit and that of the readers of this blog.

      I'd like a guarantee (with the normal caveat) that my posts will be displayed, and that the discussion will run its full course. Would you like to give that guarantee and continue it here, or would it be better to resume the discussion elsewhere/on neutral ground?

      Regards,
      Anon @ 4:34

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    30. @anon4:34
      Please send me the Resolution to be debated. I have a tight work schedule until on or about February 15th. If you would like to debate the resolution, with agreed upon rules, I will do so in February on a neutral forum such as Debate.org. In this way I cannot be accused of failing to publish certain posts.

      ---Introibo

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    31. Hello Introibo - There's no "resolution" and there's no "debate." The term I used, if you recall, was "discussion." There's a distinction. February is not going to work for me. I'll skip it. But it's good to know that you are up for debates.

      There were just a few more things I wanted to discuss regarding "Skillet" and the CCM industry etc., but never mind.

      Regards

      Delete
  28. Hi again, Introibo;
    Personally, I enjoy your series on these modern artists.
    This one has come as a surprise to me as H&O were always tagged as as a benign pop-rock duo. I distanced myself from rock some time ago due to internet articles exposing these artists, and your series helped firm up that decision. I have moved to listening solely to classical music, with an occasional foray into 40's pop standards, and it is a taste that I have acquired to where I dont want to listen to much of anything else anymore.
    Music, like the rest of the arts, apparently has always had its share of rascals: when listening to a classical piece written in the early 20th century in Elizabethan style, I recognized it right away as a Catholic hymn from many decades ago - "All Glory, Laud, and Honor, to Thee Redeemer King..."
    When I checked the bio on the composer, who assumed the alias "Peter Warlock", I found out what I was afraid of, that he was something of a shiftless, amoral character who followed the Occult lifestyle.
    What I would love to know is who transcribed his melody into the hymn, and why.
    Many thanks for all you do, and keep up your great posts, including the music ones. If you cut back to posting on music only every few months that might be a workable alternative, too.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jannie,
      Thank you for your testimony and input! I’m glad my posts have helped!

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

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    2. Close to us is the smelly WYD celebration Panama 2019. I was thinking about it, and considered that the Church could not possible give such Wooddstock-like festival. What do you think?
      For Greater Glory of God,
      Long Life Christ the King and Our Lady of Guadalupe.

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    3. I agree. A true pope could not possibly approve or tolerate WYD which teaches heresy and promotes evil and irreverent practices!

      ---Introibo

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    4. 1: Thank you. Most surprisingly, i learned almost i all know about the WYD in Tradition in Action.
      For Greater Glory of God,
      Long Life Christ the King and Our Lady of Guadalupe.

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    5. 1: Happy feast of the chair of Peter. I hope we have a Pope like Pius X soon!.
      2:I am doing an article on the WYD. Could you give some quote on moral theology that could help?
      For Greater Glory of God,
      Long Life Christ the King and Our Lady of Guadalupe.

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    6. Poni,
      WYD is one huge scandal. According to theologian Jone, scandal may consist "...in unbecoming words or conduct that are an occasion of another's spiritual ruin (scandal in the proper sense) are mortal or venial sins according as they give him occasion to sin seriously or not...it is not necessary that the sin of the other actually follow; it suffices that the action can lead to sin." (See "Moral Theology" [1962], pg. 85).

      I'm sure you can see the scandal of WYD plain as day in so many ways!!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    7. Thank you very much.
      The WYD is a huge scandal because of it disorder. I mean, men and women traveling in masses, ecumenism, Woodstock like behavior, and is basically pure modernism as the only thing that matters is "your experience". Also, having a "mass" in open, wide areas to hundreds of peoples makes sacrilege and irreverence very easy to make
      I would add that the WYD is worser than Woodstock because it is sponsored by "Catholics", in full communion with an auto proclaimed "Pope"
      For Greater Glory of God,
      Long Life Christ the King and Our Lady of Guadalupe.

      Delete
  29. To my readers:
    As this week's post wraps up, I want to thank all of you who commented regarding this "Singing For Satan" series (including those who commented and asked not to have their comments published).

    All of those comments were thoughtful, intelligent, and though-provoking. Thank you one and all!!

    On the first Monday of February, the series will continue as usual, and at the end of that post, I will inform my readers of what changes, if any, I have decided to implement. You have given me much to prayerfully consider, and I will not rush into any decision. My decision will be made known on my February 4th post of this series.

    God Bless and thank you for your help,

    ---Introibo

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  30. "I stand by what I said: Skillet is indeed a viable and fun alternative to the secular garbage out there!"

    You made a blanket statement about Skillet, but it's been pointed out to you that their lifestyle includes immodest dress, wearing of tattoos, songs with heretical lyrics, and the frontman John Coooer now has another band which is straight out heavy metal so emulating him would be a problem just like Ozzy Osbourne and listening to Skillet could easily lead to this guy's metal musical so people still end up caught in the secular rock and roll web. Thanks

    https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/10/john-cooper-fight-the-fury-skillet-interview-2018/amp/

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    Replies
    1. Yes. John Cooper is EXACTLY LIKE OZZY OSBOURNE who wrote the song “Mr. Crowley” in homage to Aleister Crowley the Satanist and who is depicted desecrating a cross on the cover of his album “Blizzard Of Oz.”

      Cooper is WORSE! He has those..those..thise TATOOS!! Just because he’s playing in another band doesn’t make it secular like Ozzy either. Many CCM who do so, feel constrained from writing on certain topics for a CCM label.
      If you’d bother to read your own citation,
      Cooper had this to say about the lyrics of his band Fight the Fury:
      “I think that’s one of the bigger differences between the projects. Fight the Fury is heavier, and there’s no question about that. That’s more screaming. But I think the lyrical content is part of what makes it heavier. It’s darker. It can be bleak. Our song “My Demons” is about child abuse. I talked to a fan who had endured child and sexual abuse, and I was moved by that. I wanted to write a song about that, and I knew it wasn’t going to be on a commercial Skillet song. It’s a dark subject that a lot of people can relate to.”

      Yes, that’s definitely worse than Ozzy. Thanks for clearing that up.


      —-Introibo


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  31. Introibo - I never said he was worse than Ozzy Osbourne? Why are you misrepresenting me? You shamelessly put words in my mouth. I see from this thread that this is becoming a bad habit for you. You are like a small, obfuscating child.
    I was saying that John Cooper now fronts a secular metal band. That is the comparison. Ozzy and John are both into secular, heavy metal rock music. So much for John Cooper being squeaky clean, like you were originally alluding. You're embarrassed now, I understand.

    You then start rabbiting on about one of the songs he sings about child abuse. So what? Relevance? As if a heavy metal band couldn't turn that subject into a sick, dark song. As if one of their songs couldn't have a semblance of a good concept. But he's HARDLY the type of guy traditional Catholics should be emulating. That's the point. That's a fact.

    You gave a blanket endorsement for a band (Skillet) where the women dress immodestly, have tattoos, and one is now fronting a heavy metal rock band.

    Taking advice from you is perilous.

    I know your tactic is to compare and contrast, but pardon me if I don't play your game.

    The issue here is the STAND ALONE PROPOSITION: Should trad Catholics be having traffic with a CCM band comprised of material heretics who are know-nothings, inflame passions by dressing immodestly, have tattoos which are forbidden by the Church, has a member who is into heavy metal rock - not to mention some of their Skillet songs which are heretical?

    Doesn't sound like a "fun alternative" to me.

    Your methadone or chemo/radiation analogy is nonsense.

    Are trad Catholics supposed to be fervently in the service of God or are they something lukewarm to be spewed out of the mouth?

    My advice is very unlike yours. I advise people to burn all their rock and roll music and stay away from any music/bands which cannot be guaranteed to be 100% edifying in all ways.

    Regards

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    1. This will be my last statement as my patience has worn VERY thin. I was being sarcastic.

      I gave a blanket endorsement of CCM for those who need groups like Skillet. The heavy metal he sings is with a theistic worldview on topics such as child abuse which many CCM labels don’t want. Nothing wrong with that.

      This issue is (and always was) Can people who need CCM to get away from the Satanic stuff do so lawfully? My answer is “Yes if they need it.”

      What’s nonsense is your constant “I’m not that anonymous. I didn’t say that.” As well as the idea to stay away from any music which cannot be 100% edifying. Obviously, you never dealt with the youth. I did as a middle school science teacher in NYC for 5 years before becoming an attorney. Suggest Gregorian chant to a 13 year old who has been into Satanic bands and he’ll laugh at you. Give him CCM and he’ll listen, and get out of it. My friend was a CCM DJ. I’ve seen the good it can do.

      Your suggestion is that of someone with no clue as to how most youth behave, and someone unwilling to make necessary distinctions. Don’t make rules where no Magisterial authority has done so.

      —-Introibo

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  32. I am an old lady and don't keep up with today's "music" but what little I have seen or heard about it, I believe there is something popular where they just scream and push each other around or are violent and much worse than anything that preceded it. I forget what it is called but there is no doubt it truly is born of the Devil.

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