The Bible is filled with the use of creation-terminology
such as earth, sea, sun, moon, starts, trees, etc. The book of Genesis,
for obvious reasons, employs these specific words often. But if one were to pay
close attention, they appear throughout the rest of the books of Sacred
Scripture, often unnoticed.
St. Vincent Ferrer, known as the Angel of the Apocalypse,
gives an analysis of these terms as they can be metaphorically applied to the
New Testament. In his Sermon on the Last Judgment, he gives some explanation for the terms stars,
sun, and heavens. He notes that, per the Gospel of St. Matthew chapter
twenty-four, there will be signs in the sun,
moon and stars that precede the end of the world. He says that the stars represent “Masters, Doctors, and Licentiates in Theology”.
He says that these learned Catholic luminaries are signified to be stars in Daniel 12:3.
“But
they that are learned shall shine as the brightness of the firmament:
and they that instruct many to justice, as stars for all eternity.”
-
Daniel 12:3
St. Vincent Ferrer goes on to comment on the Gospel of St.
Matthew, chapter twenty-four:
“And
immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be
darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars
shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved:”
-Matthew
24:29
Since the stars represent the learned in the Church, and since the stars fall at the end of the world, St. Vincent Ferrer concluded:
“Then
stars, that is the learned, shall fall from heaven, that is, from the
truth of the Catholic Faith.”
-
(Sister Mary Catherine, Angel of
the Judgement, Life of St. Vincent Ferrer pg. 110,
Library of Congress Catalog Number: 54-5298, Ave Maria Press, Notre Dame
Indiana, 1954)
St. Vincent Ferrer is teaching us a metaphorical use for the
creation-terminology in Sacred Scripture in which certain and specific terms
from the natural creation represent concepts from the new, supernatural
creation in Christ. There is not a science or a mathematical formula to apply
in order to determine exactly what these creation terms represent. I would even
argue that there are multiple ways to understand these terms.
The art or poetry involved in using creation-terminology as
St. Vincent Ferrer applied it, is to observe what qualities these terms possess
in the natural order, and then to apply those qualities, metaphorically, to the
supernatural order. For instance, the stars are fixed in the sky and are, more or less, uniform in
their appearance. However, some do shine more brightly than others. Navigators
use the fixed nature of the stars to reach their destinations. Thus, based on these
qualities, one could say that stars are like prelates in the Church, or perhaps also dogmas and
doctrines. We depend on both bishops and dogmas to reach our destination of
Heaven.
I would like to offer my ideas as to what these creation
metaphors could represent in the context of the Catholic Church’s life and
history. I am firmly convinced that there is not just one way to understand
these terms. Depending on how one frames the idea, each of these terms could
take on different meanings. For example, if one were to look no further than a
local diocese, perhaps the bishop of that diocese would be represented by the sun, and his auxiliaries and priests could be seen as the stars. In a broader context, the metaphorical use of creation
language could be framed around the universal Catholic Church.
In that context, it seems to me that the papacy is the sun. The natural sun is the source of light and warmth and without it, nothing
on earth could live. The sun does not have phases like the moon, but instead, it
radiates consistently and strongly. We can always depend on the sun to shine, no matter what. It may be obscured by clouds, but
it is still shining nonetheless. The papacy is like this, because Christ
promised that the papacy would never teach error when He said “He who hears
you, hears Me”. Christ is the light of the world (like the sun) and because He speaks through the papacy, then the papacy
is like the sun in the context of Catholic history. The papacy gives us the
Truth, which is analogous to light. Consider the common expression “the light
of Truth”.
At night, the moon can reflect the light of the sun. The sun is still shining, but its rays do not reach us. Thus, for
instance, when there have been popes throughout history that have not been the
best examples of Christian morality, or perhaps who have not given any
teachings, this could be viewed as the night. However, the rest of the Catholic
world (throughout Church history) reflected Catholic teaching to various
degrees. Thus, like the moon, these Catholic kingdoms (or related organizations) would
take the light of Truth given by the papacy and reflect it, either in whole or
in part, just as the moon can be either full, partial, or new. These kingdoms would
also wax and wane in terms of their fidelity to Church hierarchy and teaching,
just like the moon does.
In this same vein of thought, we can also examine the terms earth and sea. Since they are related yet opposing terms, then
understanding one would logically shed light on the other. There is an
abundance of scriptural clues that give a basis for understanding the sea. These are not really clues, but direct metaphors. For
instance, in the book of Daniel chapter seven, four beasts come out of the sea. These four beasts
are the four great pagan empires of Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome that
arose before the first coming of Christ. Their identities are given to us in
the footnotes of the Douay-Rheims Bible, book of Daniel chapter seven. To the
ancient Israelites, pagan nations that surrounded them were dangerous, wild,
unpredictable and uninhabitable. The prophet Jeremias, in reference to Israel’s
enemies, says the following:
“Their
voice shall roar like the sea”
-
Jeremias 6:23
Therefore, in contrast to the sea, the earth is a symbol of stability,
order, and God’s covenant with His people. The earth
represented the Promised Land, the place where God’s people could dwell. Seen
in this light, the biblical narratives from the Old Testament take on deeper
meaning. For example, God parted the sea for the Israelites so they could leave Egypt.
Egypt was a pagan nation, and as such, Egypt was the sea.
Therefore, God separated the literal and metaphorical sea so they
could walk to the Promised Land, which can be symbolized by the earth.
Armed with these potential meanings for
creation-terminology, we can approach some of the mysterious language present
in the Bible or in Catholic prophecy with a deeper understanding.
So often creation-terminology in prophecy, such as the terms
earth and sea, are taken literally.
For instance, these terms are understood literally in the prophecy about
Ireland being flooded by the sea at the end of the world, or perhaps when the Two-Horned
Lamb causes the “whole earth” to worship the image of the beast “which had the wound by
the sword, and lived”. Perhaps, in light of deeper meanings for earth and sea, (as demonstrated by St. Vincent Ferrer’s use of the term stars) it is possible to interpret these prophecies with a
metaphorical context instead.
If the earth, in the Old Testament, could represent the land of the
Israelites, then by parallel, the earth in the New Testament would represent the Catholic world.
The sea, by contrast, could be the secular (or non-Catholic) world,
which as we know, has a “voice that roars” (Luke 21:25).
The Prophecy of Ireland at the End of the World
There is a well known prophecy, attributed to St. Patrick,
that Ireland will be flooded by the sea seven years before the end of the world. This prophecy can
be found in the 7th century writings of Tirechan in his untitled
Memoirs of St. Patrick.
“before seven years previous to the day of
judgment, because seven years before the judgment we shall be destroyed in the sea”
- Betham, William. Irish Antiquarian Researches.
Vol. 2. Dublin: William Curry, Jun. and Co., 1827. p 348-402
This prophecy is understandably understood to mean a flood, tsunami
or some other natural disaster will literally either cause Ireland to sink into
the sea or be completely flooded seven years before the end of the
world. However, imagine that tomorrow, we woke up to the news that overnight,
Ireland had sunk into the sea. We would instantly know that the end of the world is only
seven years away.
Instead, perhaps we can understand this prophecy using
creation-terminology metaphors. If so, then we could interpret the sea to mean the pagan nations of the world. If you live in
Ireland, follow Irish news or have Irish friends, then you are doubtless aware
of the inundation of migrants that are pouring into Ireland. Could this be the
fulfillment of St. Patrick’s prophecy transpiring in real time before our eyes?
This flood of foreign migrants is without precedent in Ireland and will have
profound consequences for the Emerald Isle going forward. It can also be viewed
as a just temporal punishment for this once Catholic nation’s abandonment of
the Faith.
The Darkening of the Sun in the Book of the Apocalypse
The Book of the Apocalypse is filled with the mysterious use
of creation-terminology. One example is the darkening of the sun, the reddening of the moon and the falling of the stars. We already have an interpretation from St. Vincent Ferrer
concerning the stars falling from Heaven.
And
I saw, when he had opened the sixth seal, and behold there was a great
earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair: and the whole
moon became as blood: And the stars from heaven fell upon the earth,
as the fig tree casteth its green figs when it is shaken by a great wind:
-
Apocalypse 6: 12-13
As Traditional Catholics, we are already familiar with the
metaphorical interpretation of this passage. If the sun can be seen as the papacy (or perhaps the Church), then we
can see this darkening (or eclipse) of the sun as the eclipse of the Church or the papacy. The
sedevacantist site, Novus Ordo Watch, uses this imagery as the banner for its
homepage!
We can extend this system of metaphorical understanding to
other passages in the Bible that use the terms earth, sea, stars, etc. Below I offer some possible ways to understand this
poetic and prophetic language from Sacred Scripture.
Other Examples of Creation-Terminology in Sacred Scripture
For
true and just are his judgments, who hath judged the great harlot which
corrupted the earth with her fornication, and hath revenged the blood of
his servants, at her hands.
-
Apocalypse 19:2
If the word earth can be seen to represent the “land of Catholics” (as
opposed to the sea which would conversely represent non-Catholic “lands”),
then the Great Harlot would be accused of corrupting Catholic lands,
institutions or structures, perhaps the diocesan system, church buildings, etc.
There just so happens to be a Great Harlot that exists today in the Vatican
that has corrupted these things with the poison of the Novus Ordo and
Modernism.
Or what about this passage?
And
I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth
was gone, and the sea is now no more.
-Apocalypse
21:1
After God punishes the Great Harlot in the book of the
Apocalypse, St. John sees the New Jerusalem come down from heaven. Per this passage, there will be a new heaven and earth, and for some reason, this new earth will have no sea. Are we to understand this literally? Perhaps. But in light
of the metaphorical meaning of these terms, it would make sense that at the end
of time and the beginning of eternity, the secular world will be “no more”
because they will have been thrown in the pit of fire. In Heaven, there will
only be Catholics, either anticipatory ones from the Old Testament who
faithfully awaited Christ or those in the New Testament who faithfully belonged
to His Church.
Conclusion
I am not claiming that my interpretations are correct or
definitive. We can see, by the metaphorical use of these terms by St. Vincent
Ferrer, that this idea is not novel or censured. It seems to me that this
approach is more poetic instead of scientific or systematic. Nonetheless, I
have found it to be very edifying and instructive. At the very least, it has
given me a way to view the events in modern Church history in light of Biblical
prophecy, particularly those found in the Book of the Apocalypse. I hope you
find it enlightening and useful as well.
*This article is an adapted excerpt from my book, Vatican
II and Antichrist, which can be purchased
on my website:
www.gloriousheritagebooks.com
Very interesting ! I like the idea that the Sun represents the Church and is eclipsed by the Moon, which represents the V2 sect, the modernist Great Whore. So we see that the Bible is full of mysterious symbols that only enlightened minds can understand. Merry Christmas, everyone !
ReplyDeleteThank you Simon, and Merry Christmas to you as well!
DeleteSimon,
DeleteMerry Christmas to you, Simon, and to all my readers!
God Bless,
---Introibo
But we should also say that the darkening of the sun is literal as well. Remember that this happens on the day of judgment and end of the world
ReplyDeleteYes, I have come to think that there are literal manifestations of these metaphors so often. For example, one of the bowls of chastisement in the Book of the Apocalypse (I think the 6th vile or bowl) is the drying up of the Euphrates River. I do think this is primarily a metaphor for the great "streams" of the world, for example, the financial funding "stream" or perhaps the flow of oil, etc... But also, it is literally happening now in Iraq, as Turkey is building more dams at the Euphrates headwaters, causing this ancient river to dry up.
DeleteDominic,
ReplyDeleteYour work is very interesting. Eschatology (the study of the end times) is a very interesting topic altogether. I like the fact that you mention St. Vincent Ferrer. This side of heaven, it is impossible to say who the greatest “miracle worker” was in the Catholic Church, but St. Vincent Ferrer has always gotten my vote. Of course, all miracles come directly from God and then may pass through a saint’s intercession. That is what is meant by “miracle worker”. But it is hard to go against St. Vincent. His miracles were numerous. He healed a blind woman while he was still in his mother’s womb. He suspended a man in midair that had fallen off of a high structure and didn’t lower him to the ground until he had permission from his prior. Only after obtaining permission did he have the man float slowly to the ground. He spoke in his Spanish Valencian dialect and yet people understood what he was saying in French, Italian, Greek, German, English, etc. By conservative estimates, he converted 8,000 Muslims, 25,000 Jews (including 10,000 Jews at one time when he preached in their synagogue and they converted it into a Catholic Church), and roughly 200,000 souls in total number of conversions. According to St. Antonius, he raised 28 people from the dead. According to Fr. Andrew Pradel, he raised over 30 people from the dead, including the very famous story of the raising of a dead woman in her coffin who exclaimed to the astonishment of all present that he was “The Angel of the Apocalypse”. He delivered at least 70 people from demonic possession. Like all humans, he made mistakes. He believed that Judas was saved, the Antichrist was alive in a man during his time, and that the end of the world was going to happen within his generation. He also wrongly believed that Benedict XIII was the true pope. But these things in no way hindered Our Lord from working many wonders through this extraordinary man. It was said in his last 20 years on earth, he performed roughly 58,000 miracles. No one knows the exact number of his total miracles over the course of his entire life. There is no one else quite like him in the history of the Catholic Church. As we prepare for this Christmas season and contemplate Christ’s First Coming, we are reminded that this world will one day come to an end at His Second Coming. The words of St. Vincent Ferrer would be good for us to remember: “Timete Deum et date illi honorem quia venit hora iudicii eius” (“Fear God and give honor to him for the hour of judgement is coming”).
-TradWarrior
Wow, I knew some of what you wrote about St. Vincent Ferrer, but I just learned so much more from your comment! The words you quoted at the end are indeed good for us to remember. The hour of judgment is indeed coming, for us personally and for the whole world. Let us be sober-minded and free as possible from worldly attachments. Most of all, as you wrote, "fear God and give honor to Him"!
DeleteWhat a great comment TradWarrior . I am glad to being reading your comments on last weeks writing as well . I can tell you love the True Faith . God bless you
ReplyDeleteThe Sedevacantist St. Vincent Ferrer -
ReplyDeletehttps://stevensperay.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/the-sedevacantist-saint-vincent-ferrer/
@anon6:58
DeleteAlways great things from Steve Speray!
God Bless,
---Introibo
@anon9:32pm - Thank you very much for the kind words. I appreciate that. In the event that you were the @anon5:03pm in the last article, I appreciated the kind words there too. If they were from someone else, that was kind of that person. I forgot to sign my screen name on that post. I was hoping my numerous posts on the last article on Hell were helpful to all who read them. Great job by all of the guest posters on this blog! You all do a great job helping Introibo!
ReplyDeleteBeing it is Christmas Eve, it is a great time for reflection on life. I am reminded of Charles Dickens “A Christmas Carol”. There are unfortunately many “Scrooges” that walk this Earth. But with God’s grace, the hardest of hearts can always be softened. Like Scrooge, it took Jacob Marley to visit him and warn him that if he did not change his ways, a similar fate awaited him when he died. Marley is very much the figure of a soul in purgatory. The Ghost of Christmas Past shows Scrooge how he could have had happiness in the past but he chose money and greed over the woman he loved. She ends up leaving him because of his choice. The Ghost of Christmas Present shows Scrooge that if the current events do not change, Tiny Tim will die. The Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come (Future) shows that Tiny Tim dies in the future and Scrooge is buried alone in a cemetery, where he sees it is too late for him as he looks at his tombstone. Scrooge asks the Ghost, “Are these the things that will be, or may be?” Fortunately for him, they were the things that “may be” and he is given a second chance at life to correct his behavior. The Christmas season is a wonderful time for us all to ask for redemption and change whatever we need to change in each of our individual lives. Scrooge became a good man after and a friend to Bob Cratchit, and to Tiny Tim, he was like a second father. The 3 Ghosts changed him all in one night just like the 3 Persons of The Blessed Trinity – Father, Son, and Holy Ghost always are there to help us change our sinful ways. I wish everyone that reads this blog a Very Merry Christmas. In the words of Tiny Tim, “God Bless us, everyone!”
-TradWarrior
TradWarrior,
DeleteGreat comments, and a blessed Christmas to you as well.
Dominic, thank you for the post. Very interesting.
God Bless everyone involved with the blog, writers and readers.
Merry Christmas, and Pax et Bonum!
-S.T.
TradWarrior and Seeking Truth,
DeleteThank you both for your comments, as always!
Merry Christmas,
---Introibo
Merry Christmas to our host Introibo, Guest Posters, and Everyone who reads and comments here. Thank you for all of your efforts in making this blog such a fine place for Catholics in this passing year.
DeleteGod Bless You,
Joanna
Joanna,
DeleteMerry Christmas! Perhaps you can write a guest post in the near future? We always love to read your writings and comments!
God Bless,
---Introibo
TradWarrior
ReplyDeleteYes ,that was me who made the comment to your comments to last week's writing.How long have you been a sedevacantist?Where do you attend Mass i.e SSPX,CMRI,SSPV ?
Thank you Dominic for another great writing .May you and your family have a very blessed Christmas.Thank you so much for starting your publishing apostolate.We look forward to more great books from you.
Thank you so much Introibo for all your work of keeping this great blog going.When one wants answers to questions on the Faith or the sedevacantist position one will find it here.May you have a very blessed Christmas too.
Let us all pray for folk who find Christmas a difficult time such as being on their own,family problems,sickness,etc
God bless you all
@anon6:40
DeleteMerry Christmas, my friend! What a wonderful reminder to pray and help (insofar as we are able) people who find Christmas a difficult time for all the reasons you gave.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Seeking Truth,
ReplyDeleteThank you very much. A Very Merry Christmas to you as well! I love your screen name!
-TradWarrior
@anon6:40pm – In regards to my background, I will share as much as I can. Like Introibo, I do maintain my anonymity as best I can. I was raised a conservative Novus Ordo. At a rather young age, I wanted to learn and study theology more and more on my own. My first real love was apologetics. I was debating people in pretty intense discussions at a fairly young age. I have always been a very versatile person though and I started studying all different branches of Catholic theology on my own. I was self-taught. Time went on, and I was hit with multiple tragedies in my life that all coincided with each other. It was VERY difficult! While this was going on, God’s grace opened my mind simultaneously with such a precision and clarity that it is hard to express in words. I saw things not linearly but from above. I always saw the “bigger picture” anyway, but this was on a WHOLE other level! Sort of how like Gretzky could see the ice rink from above which allowed him to put up so many points. I quickly embraced the R & R position as I saw that pre and post Vatican II were 2 completely different religions. Always seeking the Truth with a humble heart and wanting the Truth at all costs, I kept studying, praying, researching, etc. I eventually embraced the Sedevacantist position as the True Catholic position. It didn’t take me long with a lot of this. I simply wanted the Truth at all costs. It did cost me many friendships and acquaintances though that were forever shattered. It was the pearl of great price as Scripture says and I HAD to follow it!
ReplyDeleteCONTINUED…In terms of what Sedevacantist group I attend (e.g. SSPV, CMRI, RCI, SGG, independent, etc.), I will have to speak generally here. When I embraced the Sedevacantist position, I did go “home aloner” for a bit. I needed to work all of this out on my own. Eventually I did join a Sedevacantist church. I was a part of one group. From day one, I knew right away that I would not fit in there. There were many problems and I was way too normal of a person to be there. Dominic’s recent article “A Tale of Two Parishes” is something that I could SERIOUSLY relate to! I was very happy he wrote that. There are Trad groups that are very clannish, clickish, unfriendly, borderline cultish, etc. I was in one. It was very difficult. One saving grace is how well I knew the faith (I am speaking humbly, yet truthfully here). I was pretty much left alone and no one dared take me on in a discussion/debate, including the priest. I was “off limits” so to speak. They all knew I could more than “hold my own” if someone dared take me on. But there was a lot of bad that I saw there. I correctly predicted many people that would leave that church. I was correct on all accounts. Many left. I knew the ones that wouldn’t last. I saw it coming. Many people were NOT treated well and charity was completely lacking there. Some people were treated so horribly! I couldn’t stand it. It was very sad and it has continued there sadly. There is too much to say about it honestly. I jumped camps and went to another Sedevacantist group. It is much better. From day one there, I knew it would be MUCH better and it has been. It is still very hard. The drive is much farther than the other Sedevacantist church and there are still trials which make it very hard on me. The priest and people there are much better though. Like night and day. There is no perfect situation. We have had no pope since 1958. It is very difficult on all of us. What makes it exponentially more difficult is that I have a very grueling schedule. Without saying too much, what I do in a given day is very taxing spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and physically. It takes a HUGE toll on me! I honestly feel like I am Bruce Wayne by day and Batman by night. Others have used the Clark Kent/Superman example. In all honesty, both examples aptly describe my situation. I don’t mean this in a literal sense. I am not a philanthropist by day and crime fighter at night (Lol!). But yes, I have a very full schedule and I rely on God’s grace, His Immaculate Mother, St. Joseph, and all the angels and saints to give me the strength to endure.
ReplyDelete-TradWarrior
Is mel Gibson in a valid marriage or not
ReplyDelete@anon12:16
DeleteSadly, no. He divorced his wife Robyn in 2011. It was a valid ratified and consummated marriage. He is now shaking up with a concubine. In 2025, Gibson will be 69, and the concubine will be 35--younger than some of his children from Robyn. Pray for Mel Gibson.
God Bless,
---Introibo
PRAY PRAY PRAY FOR MEL GIBSON!
DeleteI can not imagine how I could ever have conceived of the suffering of our Lord and the spilling of His most Precious Blood were it not for his film.
I was thinking about St. Matthew’s Gospel, Chap. 24, vs. 30; about the Sign of the Son of Man appearing in the sky before the Second Coming. Do you think it’s possible that the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima in 1917 was the fulfillment of that prophecy? Thanks for everything you do. God bless you.
ReplyDelete"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, by reason of the confusion of the roaring of the sea and of the waves;" - Gospel of St. Luke 21:25
DeleteI often think of this verse in relation to Fatima, b/c surely Fatima was a sign in the sun. However, I have come to believe that these verses (and many other similar ones) are metaphors, using the "creation terminology" that I mentioned in my above article. The "Sign in the sun", I think, is the eclipse of the Church and the papacy (which seems to be represented by the "sun" metaphor). Likewise, as St. Vincent Ferrer mentions, the "stars" are the learned who fall from the Faith.
I am not excluding lesser fulfillments, and even literal fulfillments.
However, based on the text surrounding the "Sign of the Son of Man", it appears that this "Sign" will occur very close to the end of the world, much closer than this miracle in Fatima in 1917.
In a somewhat related strain of thought, I am also inclined to think that the "coming of the Son of Man" will be a true pope given to us just before the end of the world. But to explain that, I would need another article..lol.
Merry Christmas!
Thank you for your insight!! Merry Christmas to you; my wife got me “Divine Poetry” and “Stumblingblock” for Christmas, I’m really looking forward to reading them! Thanks again for all you do. God bless you.
DeleteMerry Christmas!
ReplyDeleteGod bless,
-Andrew
Andrew,
DeleteMerry Christmas, my friend!
God Bless,
---Introibo
Is anyone aware of an online (or .pdf) liturgical calendar, indicating feast specifics?
ReplyDeleteAny help much appreciated.
No but the CSPV and Bishop Robert Neville in Michigan have calendars for sale online. If I remember correctly they don't cost much,$10-$15 mail order.
DeleteYou'll have to contact both groups online and ask them all of the info,obviously.
God bless,
Andrew
There is the one sold by mey help of Christian’s chapel (rci) but it’s only for Australia and has Australia specific details and I also will say that if you attend Cmri this isn’t for you because it is pre 55
DeleteThank you both very much. I am in Australia, and was aware of the RCI calendar (thank you Joanna), however thought it would be possible to find such a resource (pre 1958) online for quick reference.
DeleteI am a 'Semi-Sede', holding the Chair vacant since PXII, though the Sacraments of the faux Conciliar Church valid, via the divine mercy & mysteries and for which I have been appropriately admonished by Introibo and others here (in their charity and for which I am grateful).
I mention this as I appreciate the work of a Mr. Matthew Please, who does some excellent work on traditional Catholic customs, practices & fasting via his blog "A Catholic Life" and various articles one 1 LUTHER 5. I had hoped he, or someone similar would have a detailed pre 1962 calendar with the old feast classes, etc.
TradWarrior
ReplyDeleteThank you very much for the info about yourself.I am sad that you have been through some difficult times.I am praying for you.You sound very decent.
It sounds you have done a lot of reading over the years.Do you have a large personal library?What are your best books?
God bless you
Introibo:
ReplyDelete1. Would Father DePauw give Communion to somebody who was visiting Ave Maria Chapel from another chapel?
2. Would Father DePauw give the sacraments to somebody who was poor/was sick) didn't live near Ave Maria Chapel?
@anon6:14
Delete1. Yes. As long as your were baptized Catholic, rejected Vatican II and attended only Traditionalist chapels/Churches, there was no problem. I would tell anyone from SSPX not to announce that fact. There was bad blood between the Abp. and Father. "Lefebvre" was a dirty word not to be spoken unless you wanted to get frowned upon.
2. That depends. Father would go to any length to give the sacraments to a member of the Ave Maria Chapel; especially one who, for reasons beyond their control had to move away--unless it was very far away, like California.
For a Traditionalist not a member of his Chapel, and who was far away, Father would always recommend a priest who was closer.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Would Father DePauw give the sacraments to somebody who was, poor, sick, COULD get to Mass (but it was difficult), and could maybe not donate money?
Delete@anon8:14
DeleteMoney was never an issue with Fr. DePauw. From the most to least wealthy, everyone was treated equally. Father DePauw vowed to his father that he would never take any stipends or any money for offering the Mass and administering the Sacraments. Any money given him for that purpose he would send to other independent Traditionalist priests who were not well off, as he was, thanks to the large sum of money his father bequeathed to him.
In his younger days, when he could travel, I'm sure he would bring the sacraments to such a person.
God Bless,
---Introibo
@anon3:19am
ReplyDeleteThank you for the kind words and the prayers. I appreciate them very much. Thank you also for the continued questions and comments directed to me. I always want to make sure I take time to answer any questions directed my way. Even with a busy schedule, I really support the work that Introibo and his guest posters do on this blog! I keep you and all those who follow this blog in my prayers too. As far as your questions are concerned, I have a decent amount of theology books, but it is definitely not a huge collection. My best book? That is a very difficult question. I don’t think I have a personal favorite. I enjoy different books for different reasons. I also enjoy reading different genres too. But yes, theology is definitely up there.
I would ask everyone that reads this blog to keep in their prayers anyone who has ever had a bad experience at a traditional church. I still feel bad for many of the people who left the first Sedevacantist church I attended. There were a lot of hurt souls there. The hurt they were caused was completely unnecessary by the priest and many people that attended there. People who have bad experiences at traditional churches split in different directions. I saw it a lot. Some revert back to the Novus Ordo. Some became indult. Some became strict “home aloners”. Some that were close to joining a Sedevacantist church said, “No, thank you” after seeing how uncharitable a place it could be and never came back. Some drove farther distances to another Sedevacantist church because the first one left such bad scars on them. And sadly some apostatized altogether. There are some traditionalist priests that will have much to answer for on judgement day. This reminds me of a story in the book “Purgatory” by Fr. F.X. Schouppe, S.J. That would definitely be one of my favorite books. It is Steven Speray’s favorite book which he has mentioned on his blog a few times. There is a story of Our Lord appearing to a nun. He offers the religious sister a gift. There are 3 souls in purgatory – 2 religious and 1 secular (lay person). I believe this was on New Year’s, if I remember correctly. He said she could choose which soul she wanted Him to release from purgatory. She couldn’t do it. She told Our Lord to choose. He told her He would release the secular because the 2 religious souls had ample opportunities to make use of penances, indulgences, etc. in the religious life they chose, but they squandered these opportunities to fully expiate the temporal punishment that remained on their souls. As punishment to them, He took the secular soul home to heaven and allowed the 2 religious souls to burn longer in the flames of purgatory to satisfy His Divine Justice. It should be a lesson to us all. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded.
-TradWarrior
I read a while back of a man who, in the remnant of Catholic Europe, learned of a reputed Catholic mystic in a nearby village and who, for his own reasons, was highly sceptical. As happen-stance had it, he encountered this mystic some time shortly thereafter and, thinking he may put him to the test, made enquiry as to the destination of two recently deceased from his own village and who were at opposite ends of any measure of piety: one, a holy & assiduous priest, the other a young woman of loose morals and probable apostate.
DeleteGiving only scant information to the mystic, the latter replied (something to the effect of) "the priest is in the depths of purgatory and will remain there for a very long time; the young woman went straight to heaven", at which, the suspicious enquirer replied: "A ha! Now I know you are a fraud - the young woman was a reprobate and the priest most holy. He was always to be found in church praying and performing penance."
To which the mystic rejoined with "Yes he was, however he did so pridefully and in his mind was always castigating the villagers for not following his most pious example; Melanie, however, when she got her foot stuck in the railway track and the train was bearing down upon her, said to God ''Tis a good thing, O Lord, that you bring my miserable life to an end, this way I shall not be able to offend Thee anymore.'
Is it permitted to read - Onania: or, the heinous sin of self-pollution
ReplyDeleteThe author was an English surgeon, I have no record of his religion but I’m pretty sure he was a Protestant heretic since he was an 18th century English figure aren’t works by heretics forbidden ?
@anon3:16
DeleteIf he's Protestant, and preaching on a moral topic (a delicate one at that), I would refrain from reading it.
---God Bless,
---Introibo
@anon2:10pm
ReplyDeleteThank you very much for sharing that story. It was very interesting. Yes, we don’t know the fate of a soul at death, other than the fact that canonized saints are in heaven and Judas is in hell. All the others are a mystery. Many have said that if we are fortunate enough to get to heaven, we will be very surprised by what we find there. We will come to find souls who we thought were in heaven were in fact in hell and souls who we thought were in hell had actually made it to heaven. A pious soul can fall and end up damned and a wretched and wicked soul can turn to God in his last moments and enjoy unending happiness with God for all eternity. Prayer and penance are important. We all are on this journey in life, trying to get to our destination which is heaven.
-TradWarrior
I was unable to attend the traditional Mass for Christmas. The SSPX will not give conditional baptism. I don't want to attend with them anyway. I have been waiting for YEARS for traditional sacraments. There is literally NOBODY at all that I can think of to give me conditional baptism.
ReplyDeleteIf you are in the US, would you mind telling the name of the state you live in? That way it would be easier for us to think of a priest who could visit you (most of our priests travel a great deal between chapels and missions in different states).
DeleteIf I remember correctly you said you were baptized conditionally by the Novus Ordo when you converted from Protestantism. That would imply that the Novus Ordo "priest" (or whoever it was) who baptized you conditionally took the matter seriously enough to baptize you correctly. Novus Ordo clergy generally accept baptisms done by Protestants (because ecumenism, of course) so the fact that you were baptized conditionally should be an indication that your Novus Ordo conditional baptism is most probably valid.
I assume you were baptized conditionally in the Novus Ordo an an adult. Do you remember how it was done (water poured over the head, touching the skin of the head, not just the hair if it's thick, while the person baptizing you said the correct words and poured the water simultaneously)?
Anyway, this is just my opinion based on common sense. I needed to investigate my own baptism too.
God Bless You
Some people think that I should get conditional baptism, others not. Some think that I need catechism lessons. Some thought that I could be received immediately. .And there is the chapel that just doesn't want me. Priests within an hour of me. Other parishioners probably even closer. But they just don't want me.
DeleteHello TradWarrior
ReplyDeleteWe too were sad to hearing of your difficult problems and having to leave a traditional chapel.We too have been through the same thing.We were very hurt,felt betrayed and had our Faith shaken.We even went back to a conservative Novus Ordo church for a while till a SSPX priest came and helped us return to the traditional Sacraments(we were SSPX before coming Sede).This sede priest was shocking who did not care about souls.He turned a blindeye to someone in grave sin in exchange for funds.He destroyed the possible vocations to the priesthood of several men.So much more could be told .Please pray for us too.We agree,some priests will have much to answer for on judgement day and yes folk who we thought would be in Heaven will be in hell.God bless you
C.T
C.T
ReplyDeleteSo sorry to hear of your problems with a sede priest.
Prayers for you and God bless
@3:05am
ReplyDeleteC.T,
Thank you for sharing your own personal story. Yes, there are a lot of people in the same boat. I will certainly keep your family in my prayers. I honestly cannot fault anyone who went in any different direction after a bad experience – Novus Ordo, Indult (FSSP/ICK), R & R (SSPX), another Sede group with a farther drive, home aloner, apostasy, etc. I’m not saying I condone something like apostasy, just that I understand why many people went in the particular direction that they did after such a bad experience. It’s tough because there are not a lot of Sede options out there and if a person has already had 1 or 2 (or more) bad experiences with traditionalist groups, the likelihood of them staying Sede greatly diminishes. Even if they wanted to stay Sede, where would they go??? A lot of the people that I saw leave were people in their 20’s and 30’s. They had enough. If you are a Sedevacantist priest, this is definitely not the age group that you want to lose! They are the future of the church. Don’t get me wrong, you don’t want to lose anyone in any age range. We need everybody. But, at least in my own experience, these ages were really hard hit with some people who left. And we have to keep in mind here; these Sede churches are not large to begin with. You have some Novus Ordo parishes that have hundreds and hundreds of families in them, sometimes more in larger cities. That is not the case here. So a loss like this is that much worse!
I am thankful that I was able to have the True faith, with valid sacraments, and a valid priest in the former Sede church that I attended. I really was. But I knew that I wouldn’t last long there, nor would several others. One guy and his wife were treated very poorly when they got married (even before the marriage). They now are indult. Another guy is a strict home aloner. Like the previous couple that got married, he too was treated poorly by the priest and other parishioners there. One guy now goes to a Sede church that is a farther drive (like me). He also had enough of what he saw there. Another guy who was dating a girl at that church just wanted them both to get out of there. Another guy was very interested in becoming a traditional Catholic and he was treated VERY HORRIBLY by a parishioner at that church. He never entered. Can you blame him? And there are several others. Many people out of curiosity would walk in or attend Mass just once to see what it was like there. They never came back. I recently just heard another story a few months ago of a family that had a really terrible experience there. I don’t know if the whole family left or what came of that situation. It wasn’t good though.
I am a very normal person. Yes, I love the faith but I have many different interests and hobbies. I like sports, games, music, reading, working out, etc. I am very versatile. I did not see a lot of “normalcy” at the former parish I attended with the priest and people there. It was just the opposite. There were good people there who obviously had no other Mass option within a reasonable distance so they felt stuck. But there were a LOT of people that I just couldn’t connect with. A person should go first and foremost to a Sede church because it is the True position and go there for God. But you can’t escape the fact that you have to interact with people (we are social beings) and in this regard, it wasn’t hard at all to see why so many people left a group like this.
I will keep you, your family, and everyone else that visits this blog in my prayers.
-TradWarrior
The priest at the chapel that doesn't want me has said that he might come if I am IMMINENTLY in danger of death.
ReplyDeleteI was asked to not come. I have no behavior problems. They just don't want me.
ReplyDelete