To My Readers: This week my guest poster, Dominic Caggeso, shows how the great Doctor of the Church, St. Alphonsus Liguori, convinced him of the heretical view of the Feeneyites in denying Baptism of Desire. He explains further, how the glorious St. Alphonsus can be used as a defeater against the Feeneyite heresy.
Feel free to comment as usual. If you have a specific comment or question for me, I will respond as always, but it may take me a bit longer to do so this week.
God bless you all, my dear readers---Introibo
**SPECIAL NOTICE TO MY READERS** Unfortunately, this will be Dominic's last post. He will now be dedicating all his time and efforts to his Traditionalist publishing company. I want to publicly thank him for all he has done and wish him nothing but the greatest success.
I still have John Gregory writing a post every other month, and in the other months, Lee has graciously offered to step up and help out. As long as I get a one week break each month, I can continue writing. ---Introibo
Baptism of Desire and St. Alphonsus
By Dominic Caggeso
By the grace of God, I came out of the Novus Ordo. If you have also left, you likely understand the difficulty of searching for the true Catholic Faith after realizing the Second Vatican Council and the Novus Ordo religion were full of deceits and falsehoods. It's one thing to know you can no longer trust the "authorities" of the Novus Ordo, but quite another to discern which voices within the "Traditional Catholic" world to heed.
The shock of discovering the subtle and skillful deceptions within the Novus Ordo makes one understandably cautious, skeptical, and thorough in seeking the True Faith. Therefore, after leaving, I meticulously examined the various Traditional Catholic groups. I explored each group and its positions, repeatedly reading their writings and watching their videos, comparing them to one another. This was, and to some extent still is, an agonizing and gut-wrenching process. Consensus, popularity, presentation skills, size, or geographical proximity could not be used to determine the validity of any group’s theological positions. Instead, the logic and merits of their arguments were all that mattered. During this time, I developed a prayer I still recite daily: “Dear Lord, please lead me to true Catholic doctrine. If I am deceived, please don’t let it be a cause of my damnation.” In other words, I asked to be led to the Truths of the Catholic Faith, recognizing my own susceptibility to manipulation and deception.
With this mindset, I forced myself to explore the arguments against Baptism of Desire. I had discovered these arguments online, presented forcefully and seemingly knowledgeably by individuals largely critical of the Novus Ordo and the Second Vatican Council, and very familiar with the writings of past popes and councils. Despite their unpopularity among the various Trad groups, I could not dismiss their position without careful examination. Encounters with these individuals often resulted in accusations of heresy. Therefore, I needed to determine the validity of their arguments, lest I put my soul in possible danger. I needed to approach their arguments with an open mind. However, I also knew I was unqualified to fully grasp the finer points of Sacramental theology on this subject. I begged Our Lady for guidance.
Just Listen to the Priests
If, by God's grace, I reach Heaven, I will be eternally grateful for our Sedevacantist clergy. As I write this article now, I am already extremely grateful for them. They stepped into the breach after Vatican II, traveling the world to provide the Sacraments, acting as caring pastors, and exposing the many errors of the Novus Ordo sect. Without being able to articulate it, I sense that our priests and bishops possess a certain authority over their flocks. However, without delving into the profound theological technicalities of jurisdiction, I hesitate to say this authority is equivalent to that of clergy before the Second Vatican Council. After all, I distinctly remember what it was like coming out of the Novus Ordo, and searching for the voices of Truth. At the end of the day, I was the one, determining for myself, which group of Traditional Catholics was adhering to Catholic doctrine. I chose, based on my evaluation of the evidence, to reject the position of the “recognize and resist” and to adhere to sedevacantism.
When I left the Novus Ordo, I wasn’t immediately placed under the pastoral care and authority of any sedevacantist bishop, but instead, I had to go to them. Thank God such priests and bishops like Fr. Cekada, Bishop Sanborn and Bishop Dolan made themselves available online in order for a person like me to find them. But there was no pope to approve their teachings, so I had to decide to believe them based on the merits of their arguments.
I say all this because I want to underscore the point that I can not necessarily listen to my priest as the final and definitive answer on every pressing theological question. Don't get me wrong, I highly value the advice and instruction of our sedevacantists priests and I don’t automatically question what they say. In fact, as far as I know, I am in complete agreement with them. However, regarding Baptism of Desire, the stakes felt too high to rely solely on their knowledge without personally exploring the counterarguments.
St. Alphonsus’ Writings
In my quest for certitude of Catholicity on the subject of Baptism of Desire, I ventured on my own into the vast Traditional Catholic online world. I quickly encountered numerous writings by saints on Baptism of Desire, most particularly St. Alphonsus. I was greatly relieved that this Saint and Doctor of the Church spoke to plainly and boldly on the subject. Below is his treatment of the subject, taken from the Latin version of his sixth book of Moral Theology, followed by an English translation from the CMRI website. I painstakingly copied the Latin from a scanned photocopy of the 1841 edition. A few minor blemishes on the photocopy may have resulted in one or two misspelled Latin words, for which I apologize.
“Baptismus autem flaminis est perfecta conversio, ad Deum per contritionem, vel amorem Dei super omnia, cum volo explcito, vel implicito veri Baptismi flaminis, cujus vicem supplet (juxta Trid. Sess.14 c.4) quoad culpae remissionem, non autem quoad characterem imprimendum, nec quoad tollendum omne reatum poeuae: dicitur flaminis, quia fit per impulsum Spiritus Sancti, qui flamen nuncupatur. Ita Viva de Bapt. (q.2, art. 1, n.2, Salm c.1, n.2 cum Suar. Vasq. Val. Croix lib.6, p.1, n.244 el alii) De fide autem est per Baptismum flaminis homines eliam salvari, ex c. Apostolicam. De Presb. non bapt. et Trid. sess.6, c.4 Ubi dicitur neminem salvari posse sine lavacro regenerationis, aut ejus voto.”
Theologia moralis divi Alphonsi De Ligorio 6
page 132
Published 1841
ex typographia Simoniana
National Library of Naples
Translation:
“But baptism of desire is perfect conversion to God by contrition or love of God above all things accompanied by an explicit or implicit desire for true Baptism of water, the place of which it takes as to the remission of guilt, but not as to the impression of the [baptismal] character or as to the removal of all debt of punishment. It is called “of wind␅ [flaminis] because it takes place by the impulse of the Holy Ghost Who is called a wind [flamen]. Now it is de fide that men are also saved by Baptism of desire, by virtue of the Canon Apostolicam De Presbytero Non Baptizato and the Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 4, where it is said that no one can be saved “without the laver of regeneration or the desire for it.”
Armed with this quote, and other similar quotes from venerated Catholic Saints and Doctors of the Church, I returned to engage the opponents of Baptism of Desire. I thought this quote would suffice to quell any opposition to Baptism of Desire, and alleviate the anxiety I felt in not having sufficient certitude about it. In my mind, my salvation could possibly be at stake if I came down on the wrong side of this issue.
I was not prepared for the counter arguments that I received after confidently presenting this quote from St. Alphonsus. I was shocked to learn that the opponents of Baptism of Desire boldly declared that St. Alphonsus was wrong on this topic. The evidence they gave for this accusation against St. Alphonsus was confusing and complex. I was not properly educated in Catholic Sacrament theology to know how to refute their arguments against St. Alphonsus. It was then, that I came upon a counterargument that proved very effective at both giving me peace of mind and also in silencing the attacks of the Feeneyites. I still use this simple argument today, and I would like to share it with you.
St. Alphonsus is in Heaven
Let me preface my thoughts by stating that I now firmly believe in Baptism of Desire. I have listened to the explanations from our priests and have conducted adequate research to convince myself of its truth. In the above writings of St. Alphonsus, he declares that Baptism of Desire is “De Fide,” and cites the Council of Trent as his source. I do not question this. Nevertheless, in addressing opponents of Baptism of Desire, I have found it useful to hypothetically concede that St. Alphonsus might have made an error on this subject. After all, as the Feeneyites point out, saints are not infallible. After making this hypothetical concession, I proceed as follows:
I begin by asking, or otherwise establishing, that St. Alphonsus is in Heaven. Once my interlocutor concedes this point, I highlight that he, St. Alphonsus, unequivocally taught the existence of Baptism of Desire. On this point, they usually agree. I then ask if, by believing in Baptism of Desire, I would be in danger of eternal damnation for denying the Catholic doctrine on water baptism. The answer is almost always affirmative, as they assert that believing in Baptism of Desire makes one a heretic.
At this juncture, I point out that St. Alphonsus clearly believed in Baptism of Desire, and he is neither a heretic nor eternally damned. I conclude with them that, even if he were mistaken on this subject, it evidently does not lead to the loss of one's soul. Therefore I continue, by extension, I cannot lose my soul by simply affirming my belief in Baptism of Desire.
I have found great success with this counterargument in neutralizing the vitriol from the Feeneyites. It is simple and clear. Despite this, however, at times it has evoked very strange and seemingly desperate responses. I recall one instance where, in response to this argument, I was told that because St. Alphonsus did not have access to the internet, he would not be held to the same standard of culpability as I would be for believing in Baptism of Desire. But most of the time, the discussion with the Feeneyites on this topic would quickly end once I made this simple point.
Conclusion
I wanted to share this simple argument with you because it has given me peace of mind and alleviated for me one of the many anxieties we face as Catholics striving to preserve the pure doctrines of the Church during the Great Apostasy. I recognize the limitations of my knowledge of Catholic theology. That is why this simple and logical argument is so attractive. We can read and embrace the teachings of great Saints and Doctors of the Church because the Church, our Mother, has provided them to us. When St. Alphonsus declares Baptism of Desire to be “De Fide,” we can trust him.
Wonderful Dominic! I wish there was a book on these simple irrefutable arguments. Perhaps readers will share some they have at the ready. God bless all! St Mathias, pray for us!
ReplyDeleteThank you :) I like your book idea!
DeleteYour specific prayer (“ Dear Lord, please lead me to true Catholic doctrine. If I am deceived, please don’t let it be a cause of my damnation.”) is more detailed than mine. Back in the day, exasperated with the conflicting perpectives many of which seemed equally plausible, I eventually prayed, or said in supplication, “Lord, whatever the truth is, I believe it”. I think it worked but your version is good too.
ReplyDeleteSadly, you can't go by your sentiments or perceived "answer" to your prayers. I'm sure that on this planet of more the 7 billion souls, there are no doubt Protestants; traditionalists who regard Francis as "Holy Father" (and, perhaps soon, the late Francis); stay-at-home traditionalists; members of the Vatican II Conciliar Church (who have some good will); and others who pray with similar sentiments, and yet they all end up in theological communities as different and contradictory as can be imagined.
DeleteNot everyone who prays, and who even prays with undeniable sincerity and perhaps even fasting (here I'm speaking of those who consider themselves and want to be regarded as Catholics), is going to conclude that "sedevacantism is the answer". And even among those who come to some variant of "sedevacantism", there is often painful disunity and discord.
If you think otherwise, you are unnecessarily setting yourself up for heartache and serious disappointment when your serious-minded loved one or "friend" comes to a theological conclusion altogether different from your own.
And to be sure, none of what I write here is in any way meant to deny that immutable truth, namely, that outside the Catholic Church, there is no salvation; however, the question nowadays is that that truth having been affirmed, where exactly is She?
At some point one has to make a decision, and commit, for better or worse, lest one is guilty of lukewarmness in the matter: “I know thy works, that thou art neither cold, nor hot. I would thou wert cold, or hot. /But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth” (Apoc.3:15-16).
DeleteVery good comments! I, too, suffered greatly looking, where is She? So many smart people with conflicting answers and no answers. So terribly frustrating! I have a similar pray to the Lord, BVM, all angels amd saints...please please keep leading me to the Truth. Do I even have any Truth now?
DeleteIt is all a hot mess. Today I got an email from the folks that used to mentor me with a new anti sede article. Oh boy, are they prideful in their "certainty". This is what they sent fyi.
The Catholic Church Will Always Have a Pope: https://catholiccandle.org/2025/02/21/the-catholic-church-will-always-have-a-pope/
Introibo did a wonderful post refuting their Against Sedevacantism book a few years ago. I stumbled across it somehow and it helped lead me out of the R&R. These folks have many good writings and are convincing...but also convinced. God help us.
Anon, see what you think about this article https://stevensperay.wordpress.com/2023/05/12/does-apostolicity-of-the-church-absolutely-require-a-hierarchy/
DeleteAnon. 2:43
DeleteI wrote an article about the first Mark here: https://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2023/12/the-first-of-four-marks.html
Lee
I still pray that prayer everyday at Mass. Of course we can't go on the sentiments of any "perceived" answers to our prayers. We must also search out the Truth with all our mind and strength. However, the prayer is most surely pleasing to God and if we persevere in our knocking, God will open the door.
DeleteIn a previous article (perhaps it wasn't on this blog) I did a comparison of the post-Resurrection Gospel accounts and the current state of affairs in the Church (Traditional Catholics) after the Second Vatican Council. We, like Mary Magdalene are looking for the Lord (or Truth).. but where is He (She)?
There was some mysterious quality to the Resurrected Christ that was made Him difficult to recognize, but also, at the same time, familiar. How so is it now for Catholics in this current state of sedevacante.
From anon 2:43
DeleteThank you for Steven Speray article. It was helpful. Lee, so was yours, thank you! Thank you Dominic as well...if you can post a link to the article you referenced, I would be most appreciative. God bless all!
Greetings to Introibo, Dominic and the readers of the blog. With your permission, I publish Jorge's response and a brief conversation with another Lefebvrist:
ReplyDeleteJorge Garrido:
"I answer in parts:
1.- I am not a "feeneyite", so that adjective is out of place. I have never said that a Pope can teach heresy (at least dogmatically), but I know how to distinguish heresy from error. Can a Pope err? Yes, and there are historical precedents for this. Of course, in no case did they err in ex cathedra documents (the Holy Spirit would make it impossible). If the CVI in the Dogmatic Constitution "Pastor Aerternus" clearly limits the requirements that an ex cathedra declaration must meet in order to enjoy infallibility, this implies that if a teaching does not meet these requirements, it does not enjoy infallibility. That does not mean that it is wrong, but since it does not have that guarantee, it could be. But an error may not be heresy, but rather ambiguity, a highly debatable statement, etc. This simplism according to which a teaching is either correct or heretical is not only a serious error, but it often leads to wrong conclusions.
2.- I am not seeking to save the CVII, but rather to be objective with it. It was a univrsal Council, convened by the reigning Pope and attended by almost all the bishops and cardinals of the world. Ignoring that and pretending it didn't exist is absurd. Did no bishop or cardinal realize that it was a false council? Please let's be serious...
3.- "Lumen Gentium" must be explained according to the rules of faith and the Magisterium. The current popes are contaminated by modernism and are not reliable in their teaching, so to the extent that they do not contradict traditional teaching, they should be obeyed, and to the extent that they distance themselves from it, they should be resisted. The crisis of the Church is very serious and requires this effort of prudence, because the consequences of rejecting the existence of any pope are much worse than those of resisting him insofar as he may err. No one has the authority to sentence a pope, however we all can and must protect our faith from those who may harm it, without judging anyone because we do not have that power."
"4.- Indeed, the CVII is the univrsal ordinary Magisterium in everything that does not contradict the previous dogmatic Magisterium, but due to its pastoral nature (and in the explanatory communications of "Lumen Gentium" it makes this clear) it does not define anything dogmatically and refers to the traditional Magisterium in all of this, limiting itself to "expressing in today's language the same Magisterium as always" (that is the express will of the CVII, only then it actually makes statements contradictory with their expressed will...). The clarifications and notifications of the CVII documents do not make it good in what distances itself from the traditional Magisterium, but they allow us to avoid a general condemnation of the CVII as heretical. It is full of ambiguities that imply error and encourage error and heretical interpretations, but formally it cannot be classified as heretical precisely because of these clarifications.
ReplyDelete5.- Regarding the errors of the new catechism, the same must be said: it includes statements that can be interpreted both heretically and correctly (although in this case with a special mental effort, but it is possible), and this makes it impossible to directly classify it as heretical. Each of the doubtful or erroneous statements has been extensively studied and all of them can be interpreted in a non-heretical way (although sometimes the mental exercise is very complicated and forced to achieve this, which shows that, although possible, it is not easy, and therefore they are erroneous statements that should not be addressed due to the greater ease of interpreting them in a heretical way than in an orthodox way).
6.- As I already said in point 4, the CVII is a universal ordinary Magisterium in everything that does not contradict the previous dogmatic Magisterium, but it is merely pastoral, it does not define anything dogmatically and refers to the traditional Magisterium in all of this, limiting itself to "expressing in today's language the usual Magisterium" (although, I repeat, it actually contradicts itself). Therefore, from a dogmatic point of view, the CVII has no value. Its value is merely pastoral. Its declared purpose was to express the traditional doctrine with today's language. What he got right, he got right, and what he didn't get right, he didn't get right."
7.- I already said that confusing errors with heresies is a sign of great lightness and little rigor. Both the CVII and the new catechism have errors, but it is very bold to go so far as to affirm that they are clear heresies. The problem with the current crisis of the Church is that the errors are not as open and clearly heretical as in past times, and that is why extreme caution must be exercised without losing firmness. Of course, that requires a lot of exercise of virtues and it is not easy...
ReplyDelete8.- I do not turn the consequence into a condition, but in a crisis situation in the Church I must be diligent and check everything to see that it is correct. It is a mistake to say that what a Pope teaches is correct and, therefore, that if he says something incorrect in any non-dogmatic document it is because he is not a Pope. That way of thinking is wrong. The Pope does not create the Magisterium, but is the custodian of revelation and the previous Magisterium, which can develop and deepen, but never change. And if he changes it, the consequence is not that he is not Pope, but that said change should not be obeyed.
Finally, I want to highlight a detail: many sedevacantists (not all) affirm their theological opinions as if they were absolute truths, and even dogmas of faith. The Magisterium of the Church has never issued any document that can serve as a guide in these times of crisis, so it is important to have charity with those who in good faith try to do the right thing. I believe that the sedevacantists are wrong, but I do not condemn them because I understand that they do what they believe is right, and since we lack a sure guide, no one can be condemned as easily as they do with those of us who adopt a position that we believe unites firmness with prudence. Unfortunately they are very lacking in prudence...
All the best."
Then a Lefebvrist whose pseudonym is "Lefebvre" responded:
ReplyDelete"I greatly appreciate your response. Although there are parts that I do not agree with, I recognize that at least you have taken the trouble to make your ideas clear, and to express them in a respectful and broad way. You have culture and respect, something not very common in Sedevacantist environments.
And yes, I agree with you that the "sedevacantist" position is very attractive, it may have certain solid bases, mostly empirical, but from there to establish it as a dogma, in an arbitrary, abusive, brute, unlearned way, and excommunicating those who do not have the same opinion, and denying sacramental grace to priests and bishops who do not share it, is nonsense, more typical of infiltration Judeo-Masonic-Communist in the Holy Church, which provides a serious, high-level debate, with arguments, and, above all, with sincerity.
May God keep him safe."
And Jorge said:
"Thank you very much for your response. I think it is important to understand that the current crisis of the Church is unprecedented in history (it only resembles the Arian crisis a little, but even so it did not reach that point) and that means that we find ourselves in a situation for which we have no sure guide. That is why it is important to respect those who in good faith see the solution in a different way than we do. We are dealing with theological opinions, not dogmas. Unfortunately we do not have sure guides and we have to put our faith and our intelligence in the search for the answer that seems most correct to us, without being absolutely certain that we are not wrong. I believe that the theological opinion of the SSPX on how to face this crisis is the most correct, the one that combines firmness and prudence in a reasonable balance, without falling into positions that call into question truths of faith... Could it be an erroneous position? Could it be, but of all the solutions offered to me, honestly, it seems the most sensible to me. When we all leave this world and God makes us see the reality of things, we will see if we are right or wrong... That is why, although I am not convinced by other solutions (such as the plenary sedevacantist, the cassiciacum or the accordist), I do not believe I am authorized to condemn anyone. It is not because of relativism or subjectivism, but because of a lack of security.
I am not 100% sure of the security of my thesis (and even less so of the others), even though it is the one that seems most convincing to me. We are in an unstable situation, in an unprecedented crisis, in a state of need that by definition forces us to walk along the edge of the abyss... how can I condemn anyone who in good faith takes another path that seems better? Who has the absolute certainty, in these times of confusion, not to err?
ReplyDeleteI distrust those who believe they are new messiahs capable of speaking with such confidence as to allow themselves to condemn others.
All the best."
I'm sorry for going on so long, I'm very interested in the debate but I would understand if you didn't publish my long messages
Thank you very much
Young reader from Spain
Young Reader from Spain.
DeletePlease understand that I cannot have ersatz "debates" on two different forums on this blog; especially when it has no relation to the immediate subject, no rules of debate, the comments are long, and my time is scarce. This will be my last response.
The major errors:
1. The R&R as "Uber-Magisterium"
The pope decrees and then Jorge the R&R Layman, and Fr. SSPX will decide whether or not this conforms to what they think is Tradition? Theology 101: Who is the Supreme Teacher of the Church? For Catholics, it's the pope. For the R&R it is everyone EXCEPT the man they recognize as "pope." That's not the One True Church, and how She teaches.
R&R are LIKE Feeneyites insofar as they only accept ex cathedra statements as needing to be believed. The pope cannot teach heresy because something isn't infallible. Something can be mistaken but can never contradict Church teaching.
Proof:
After all, when the Church speaks, even when she does not speak with all the weight of her infallible utterance, she does invariably give us safe guidance; for, though the speculative truth or falsity of some matter which she treats in this particular way may be, for a time, a matter of question, there can be no question at all that a Catholic is practically secure in listening to the voice of those whom God has set as bishops and pastors to rule the Church." (See Fr. Hughes, Henry George. (1906). Essentials and Non-Essentials of the Catholic Religion. pgs. 26-27, 31).
Pope Leo XIII:
"In defining the limits of the obedience owed to the pastors of souls, but most of all to the authority of the Roman Pontiff, it must not be supposed that it is only to be yielded in relation to dogmas of which the obstinate denial cannot be disjoined from the crime of heresy. Nay, further, it is not enough sincerely and firmly to assent to doctrines which, though not defined by any solemn pronouncement of the Church, are by her proposed to belief, as divinely revealed, in her common and universal teaching, and which the Vatican Council declared are to be believed “with Catholic and divine faith.” But this likewise must be reckoned amongst the duties of Christians, that they allow themselves to be ruled and directed by the authority and leadership of bishops, and, above all, of the Apostolic See...For, otherwise, there would be no sure interpreter of the commands of God, nor would there be any safe guide showing man the way he should live." ( Sapientiae Christianae).
Yet for Jorge the R&R and Fr. SSPX THEY are the ones to follow and THEY Judge when the Magisterium gets it right. So who needs a Magisterium if you have to "check their teaching"? What Teacher can't teach and still be a teacher?
Continued below
2. The R&R interpret Vatican II
DeleteLinked to number one above, THEY tell you what the footnotes and all REALLY mean, NOT THE POPE.
That's backwards. If the pope teaches what a Council means in a Catechism, it is HIS JUDGEMENT that is final and binding. So when "Pope" "St." John Paul II tells you what Vatican II means, you accept it footnotes and all.
But wait! Wojtyla and the V2 "popes" are "contaminated by modernism and are not reliable in their teaching." So Christ's Promise and the protection of the Holy Ghost don't work well enough. You can have a "Modernist Contamination" decided upon by Jorge R&R and Fr. SSPX, and they can teach better than the Vicar of Christ!
3. The Church CANNOT teach ambiguously.
Jorge writes: " errors of the new catechism, the same must be said: it includes statements that can be interpreted both heretically and correctly (although in this case with a special mental effort, but it is possible), and this makes it impossible to directly classify it as heretical. Each of the doubtful or erroneous statements has been extensively studied and all of them can be interpreted in a non-heretical way (although sometimes the mental exercise is very complicated and forced to achieve this, which shows that, although possible, it is not easy, and therefore they are erroneous statements that should not be addressed due to the greater ease of interpreting them in a heretical way than in an orthodox way)."
That proves it did NOT come from the Church:
The Apostolic Constitution of Pope Pius VI, Auctorum Fidei (1794), teaches, "Moreover, if all this is sinful, it cannot be excused in the way that one sees it being done, under the erroneous pretext that the seemingly shocking affirmations in one place are further developed along orthodox lines in other places, and even in yet other places corrected; as if allowing for the possibility of either affirming or denying the statement, or of leaving it up the personal inclinations of the individual – such has always been the fraudulent and daring method used by innovators to establish error. It allows for both the possibility of promoting error and of excusing it...Whenever it becomes necessary to expose statements that disguise some suspected error or danger under the veil of ambiguity, one must denounce the perverse meaning under which the error opposed to Catholic truth is camouflaged."
Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, January 6, 1928:
"The teaching authority of the Church in the divine wisdom was constituted on Earth in order that the revealed doctrines might remain forever in tact and might be brought with ease and security to the knowledge of men."
The Church teaches with "ease and security" and does not need Jorge to perform mental gymnastics on behalf of other laymen to "make something ambiguous orthodox."
Continued below
4. It's NOT REALLY HERESY!!
DeleteJorge writes: "Both the CVII and the new catechism have errors, but it is very bold to go so far as to affirm that they are clear heresies." Please.
Are these clear heresy:
1. Ratzinger with Wojtyla's approval declaring a Mass with NO WORDS OF CONSECRATION VALID.
The document is entitled, Guidelines for Admission to the Eucharist between the Chaldean Church and the Assyrian Church of the East. The original Vatican text is in English. By the admission even of the Vatican itself, the priest never recites the words of consecration, “This is My Body,” nor “This is the chalice of My Blood...” with the subsequent words. Nor does he recite anything even similar to them. Let's see Jorge R&R perform mental gymnastics to explain how this can be so without contradicting ALL DOGMATIC THEOLOGY since the Founding of the Church.
How about The October 31, 1999 Joint Declaration on
Justification, approved by Ratzinger and John Paul II? The Joint Declaration begins by telling us that it “encompasses a consensus on basic truths of the doctrine of justification and shows that the remaining differences are no longer the occasion for doctrinal condemnations.” It is needless to point out that such an idea utterly ruins the nature of the Catholic Church, that it is the single Church founded by Christ, and has perdured through the centuries with the same dogmas, the same worship, and the same essential discipline. If the Catholic Church can “develop” in such a way that it can approve of the Lutheran notion of justification, then what is left? Answer: NADA.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Canon Law of 83 approving communion fo protestants, Assisi, and saying marriage is equal to celibacy
DeleteIn this Great Apostasy we're living through, we must stand behind the pre-V2 Magisterium and the teachings of the saints and approved theologians. In this way, we can be sure we're not on the wrong track.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your very interesting articles ! Our friend Introïbo is blessed to have good guest posters !
Simon,
DeleteYes, all my guest posters have been a blessing!
God Bless,
---Introibo
Intriobo and Simon are blessings and I am very pleased with Dominic's last posting. But remember all the Fathers, theologians, Doctors and Popes are wrong and the Dimond's are right. They are super enlightened, above all the rest.
DeleteJohn Gregory
Thank you Simon and Introibo :) It was a pleasure to write for Introibo. Perhaps in the future, when my schedule frees up more, I'll be welcomed back again.
DeleteDominic,
DeleteYou're always welcome here--as are John Gregory and Lee!
God Bless,
---Introibo
Dominic,
ReplyDeleteI always enjoy reading your work. I like your simple argument for countering the Feeneyites. It is very good. I wish you well in all of your future writing endeavors. Hopefully you continue to comment here whenever you can. Your contributions to this blog have been wonderful.
God bless you,
-TradWarrior
@ TradWarrior, Thank you very much. I have read through some of the more involved and detailed arguments against Feeneyism, but at the end of the day, that simple argument always stuck in my head. Its easy to articulate and uses common (Catholic) sense. I hope to see you around the blogosphere :) Ave Maria!
DeleteDominic,
DeleteI wanted to get your take on something. Regarding the 8 kings of Revelation, many believe (I believe you agree with this too) that Francis is the 8th king mentioned in Revelation. Vatican City became an independent state in 1929 through the Lateran Treaty. If we count Pius XI through Francis, then he is the 8th king. Even though Pius XI and Pius XII were true popes, they would be included in this list as part of the 8 kings of Revelation, since this is when Vatican City became its own nation. If we start with Roncalli, then it is John XXIII through Francis, and we would have 2 more kings to go. This timeline would start with the false popes. It seems like the first scenario is the more plausible one, given your reasoning that includes both Pius XI and Pius XII. Can you elaborate a bit more on your thoughts on all of this, especially since Francis seems to be getting closer to death (even though reports from Rome right now are conflicting)?
Thanks,
-TradWarrior
This comment by Trad Warrior is interesting. It makes me wonder. Many say the Masons have manipulated everything. How do we know the Bible (that which we say is the true bible) has not been manipulated by enemies? Who makes money from printing the Douay Rheims Bible? And the false bibles?? Maybe people are constantly trying to figure out all these puzzles instead of rising up against enemy forces which are engulfing us? Maybe all the apparitions (which may be believed) are part of the confusion and constant deciphering we focus on? If God's ways are not our ways, we can never figure these things out, right? I do not see anyone waking up or rising up, which is very sad and discouraging.
DeleteLet me preface this by saying that im not a diamondite Besides the fact that ur falling into jansenist error regarding embrace of doctrine clearly established in doctor of church st augustine (i dont see why it couldnt apply to st alphonsus) even if only materially fact is that st alphonsus is a doctor of moral theology not sacraments so hes not the authority though then u could point to st thomas whos a common doctor but thing is that his view of bod is at odds with trent aquinas still postulated that catechumens needed to undergo purgatory while trent says of born again that they are forgiven whole and entire difference between u and st alphonsus is that u are possibly obstinate he didnt call necessity of baptism heretical he didnt write articles obstinately defending his view etc
ReplyDeleteRule of faith is first and foremost the bishop of rome so follow the magisterium in it u ll not find the idea of bod first of contrary to popular beliefs suprema haec sacra by the grace of god wasn't published in acts of holy see
Second trent anathemizes the position that water isnt necessary for baptism and those who twist john 3 5
Trent also anathemizes the position that baptism is optional
Now yall might say that its necessary by means but why would adults be excused and not infants ? If anyone doesnt have means its them then theres st leo the greats 16th letter where he commenting on such cases where yall say that bod justifies like persecution or accidental death like shipwrecks says that sacrament is only safeguard of salvation
Then theres consensus of fathers that is binding as per trent not that of few fathers and they are clear in necessity of baptism not to mention that st augustine changed his position and st ambrose had conflicting views or he too changed it
Last but not least according to definution of unam sanctam every creature must be subject to pope for salvation and according to honest bod supporter and theologian ludwigg ott non baptized arent subject to the Church citing council of trent and fathers u might say that they are inside "soul" of church but cantate domino(?) Says that one must be added to ECCLESIASTICAL BODY before the end of their lives to be saved
Also to add to this difference between u and st alphonsus is that he erred on what the magisterium taught while presumably because he didnt look closely or else hed not err being otherwise very smart u on the other hand take what one person says about the magisterium even if the person is saint and run with it as if its infallible u dont look at the magisterium and ik owner of this blogpost has frankly heretical idea of what is rule of faith but u need not embrace it nowhere does the magisterium saints catevhism or even the theologianS say that after pope decrees something its up to the theologians to determine its true meaning
DeleteI cant help but add that trent also teaches that instrumental cause of justification is Baptism ie sacrament if faith as trent itself calls it continuing without which no one is ever justified
DeleteContinuing "This faith, in accordance with apostolic tradition, catechumens beg of the Church before the sacrament of baptism, when they ask for faith which bestows life eternal…”
Trent also teaches that sacraments of new law are necessary tho not all so at least one ha to be
It also teaches that
“For the completion of the salutary doctrine of Justification… it has seemed fitting to treat of the most holy sacraments of the Church, through which all true justice either begins, or being begun is increased or being lost is restored"
But bod postulates beginning of justice without sacrament
@anon10:00
DeleteYour writing is hard to follow, but let me say this; the truth of BOD is affirmed by:
1. The ex cathedra decree of Trent. The proceedings of the Council Fathers at Trent clearly demonstrate they intended "or desire" to mean EITHER Baptism or Desire of same could save you. It was the interpretation affirmed in the Catechism of Trent solemnly promulgated by Pope St. Pius V, and the teaching of ALL Theologians since Trent, therefore confirmed by the Universal and Ordinary Magisterium as well. Finally, it is taught by the 1917 Code of Canon Law which is also infallible.
BOD is dogma, the denial of which makes one a heretic.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Anonymous,
DeleteYou write:
"St. Alphonsus is a doctor of moral theology not sacraments so hes not the authority".
The theology of sacraments is PART of moral theology.
This is why the standard pre-Vatican II seminary textbook on moral theology by Merkelbach talks specifically of sacraments in volume III of his "Theologia Moralis".
St. Alphonsus certainly IS the authority on this, that is BOD and BOB.
God Bless,
Joanna
This is great Dominic. I have a similar journey. I communicated with Father's Cekeda and Stepanich on this. I was almost convinced by the biological brothers in 2009 but was not sure why no SV clergy that I was aware of taught this. I knew it wasn't human respect, after all they are SV. Michael Cain, Griff Ruby, Tom Droleskey and Mario Derksen all also helped me. The CMRI website. All the research I did. Especially when I found out the Saints Bellermine and Alphonsus taught BoD AFTER the Council of Trent. I knew they both didn't misunderstand the Council!!!
ReplyDeleteDominic,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the interesting post. We enjoyed it. God bless you and your writing/publishing endeavors!
-S.T.
Somewhat off topic but relates to a recent post re apparitions...
ReplyDeleteHas anyone seen Bp Sanborn discussing Bp Williamson fascination with apparitions? Discussion starts approx 9min.
https://youtu.be/57dUrYBs964?si=8KNLZ991KIWAvHGJ
Sanborn states an approval by Church makes apparition a fact. So he goes much further than...it is worthy of belief and may be believed. SCARY! I think it is possible that apparitions are false and sending people into sentimental distractions and false beliefs. Someone I helped escape from NO, will not discard Divine Mercy and Medjugorje false...she stands by it all. So are people truly escaping the NO? Seems not fully!
@anon2:41
DeleteI agree that we should not be what I call "Apparitionists," i.e., those who have their faith guided and formed by apparitions and de facto put those apparitions on par with the Deposit of Faith. It doesn't surprise me that those who do so may be thereby trapped in the Vatican II sect because an apparition said "such and such."
Sad.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Ps. Bp Sanborn also says we shouldn't pray that Fatima prayer as it was never approved by Church. He also knew it had been changed as well.
ReplyDelete@anon10:04
DeletePrayer can be personal. In other words, we can pray to God in our own words and it need not be a formal prayer. To the best of my knowledge and belief, a formal prayer can be recited without approbation as long as it is not explicitly heretical. I see nothing wrong with the Fatima prayer as now recited, and I don't know of the alleged conspiracy to change it.
God Bless,
---Introibo
@anon10:04
DeleteI do agree with 99% of what Bp. Sanborn said on this topic. Formalized prayers added to Church devotion already approved and/or placed on prayer cards are another matter. Can the Fatima prayer be recited as part of the Rosary? Bp. Sanborn claims that only one Spanish bishop approved it (and he's not sure of the exact wording he approved). I never research it. The SSPV and Fr. DePauw used it. They would not do so if it were prohibited. Bp. Sanborn expressed his opinion; he did not state it as fact that must be followed.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Did you hear him also say indulgences would not apply to rosary with added Fatima prayer? If true, apparition handiwork of devil!
Delete@anon4:26
DeleteAs Fatima was approved by the pope, it cannot be opposed to faith and morals or of demonic origin. You need not believe it at all. What Bp. Sanborn said was his non-Magisterial opinion. I also question his contention. If I'm praying the Rosary, and feel compelled to speak a prayer from my heart and the end of the decade (obviously not approved), I lose the indulgence?
If true, it means some people turned something good into something bad. People do evil all the time and it is not always due to the temptations of the devil.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Yes,just watched his video-questions for the rector about bp Richard Williamson and he made that comment to Stephen Heiner.
ReplyDeleteThoughts everyone.I am not sure about this.Thank you and God bless
@anon3:26
DeletePlease see my comment directly above.
God Bless,
---Introibo
Dominic, I came across this channel from another channel. Very interesting, to a degree, this man says Elvis(evils) is real antichrist and Trump is antichrist in the flesh. All the masonic numbering he does is fascinating. We know the Masons do this crazy stuff. Who knows but it is an interesting theory.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/live/cK0icc_ueDw?si=Oll8eYW4fzxUa5pB
Introibo
ReplyDeleteDo you know any good books/writings on someone discerning a religious vocation?
P.T
PT,
DeleteFor those considering being brothers or nuns, I suugest
"Religious Vocation: An Unnecessary Mystery" by Fr. Butler, written in 1961. Available on Amazon for about $9 on Kindle. For men considering the priesthood I recommend "The Priest: The Man of God" by St. Joseph Cafasso, available in paperback from Amazon for $16.
God Bless,
---Introibo
And this too re Gene Hackman=Hack man gene...freaky! Probably true!💉💉💉
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/live/5N9ITgVg8XA?si=CM01sNNT8kwH2NFJ
Intriobo, What do you say to the Orthodox who say the Catholic Church has lost its way because we use unleavened bread.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
DeleteThat is an extremely weak argument on the part of the EO.
1. At the Last Supper, unleavened bread was most probably used, as this was the custom of the Jews at Passover. Moreover, it is probable that Christ used unleavened bread at the institution of the Blessed Eucharist, because the Jews were not allowed to have leavened bread in their houses on the days of the Azymes.
2. Some theologians (and Church historians) are of the opinion that down to the tenth century both the Eastern and Western Churches used leavened bread; others maintain that unleavened bread was used from the beginning in the Western Church; still others hold that unleavened or leavened bread was used indifferently.
So it is hardly settled that leavened bread was always used.
3. The Catholic Church has always used leavened bread in the Eastern Rites for centuries.
(Source: Catholic Encyclopedia of 1913).
There is no proof that leavened bread was ever "the way" so the Catholic Church has not lost it!
God Bless,
---Introibo
Thanks so much my friend!!!
DeleteJohn Gregory
https://traditioninaction.org/bev/304bev02-28-2025.htm
ReplyDeleteInteresting re Easter and Orthodox. Since April 20 also Hitler bday, can someone please explain the Hitler fan boys...are they people who think Hitler was good and converted? Some say he even still alive. I do know people who say they are traditional who revere Mussolini and say he was a hero. But they are not really traditional and I have no clue about why there are Mussolini or Hitler fans. I will agree history and facts are manipulated.
@anon2:31
DeleteI have no explanation for the illness affecting Hitler fan boys.
You have to accept: conspiracy theories, alternative history, twisting of facts, and pathological hatred of all Jews.
God Bless,
—-Introibo