Monday, April 6, 2015
The blog Southern Orders is run by a Vatican II sect priest, one "Fr." Allen McDonald. To his credit (and my surprise), he actually wonders in print if Begoglio said something heretical! His post of March 27, 2015 is entitled "IS IT HERETICAL TO BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN ANNIHILATE A HUMAN PERSON'S IMMORTAL SOUL?" In an interview (yet another!) that Francis had with an atheist journalist, the following exchange took place:
Scalfari: What happens to that lost soul? Will it be punished? And how?
The response of Francis is distinct and clear (netta e chiara): there is no punishment, but the destruction/annihilation of that soul. [The Italian word is annullamento, literally, "turned into nothing", meaning here the same as the more usual Italian word for annihilation, annientamento]
All the others will participate in the beatitude of living in the presence of the Father. The souls that are destroyed/annihilated will not take part in that banquet; with the death of the body their journey is finished. And this is the motivation of the Church’s missionary activity: to save the lost. And it is also the reason why Francis is a Jesuit to the end.”
This is public heresy. As Fr. DePauw used to say: "The Jesuits are always good for a laugh or a heresy--usually both." Remember that Catholic theology clearly teaches that a heretic cannot be pope! (For a detailed analysis with complete citations please see "Traditionalists, Infallibility, and The Pope" by Fr. Cekada at traditionalmass.org). Notice, too, the way the question McDonald asks is twisted in such way as to avoid the charge of heresy for Frankie. Can God annihilate a human soul? Of course He can. The question is rather, "Has God decreed the eternal conscious bliss or suffering of a human soul, and therefore annihilation is precluded by His Own unchanging Will?" Of course, the answer, given by the Magisterium is "yes."
I will reprint the blog in red color and respond in green below.
Is what Pope Francis supposedly said heretical or not? Keep in mind that an interview with an atheist who then reports the interview from his memory is not a magisterial teaching. It is an opinion of Jorge Bergoglio as Jorge Bergoglio. Keep in mind that when Pope Benedict wrote his trilogy on Jesus he stated that theologians were free to critique and disagree with some aspects of his writings, but of course in an academic way. So popes can have opinions to which we may agree or disagree but we should be able to back up our negative critique with academic prudence.
He said it alright! For further proof of his heretical teaching see http://www.novusordowatch.org/wire/francis-is-asked-about-hell.htm
As far as Bergoglio saying something in his personal capacity, Canonists and theologians teach that defection from the Faith, once it becomes manifest, brings with it automatic loss of ecclesiastical office (authority). They apply this principle even to a pope who, in his personal capacity, somehow becomes a heretic. Further, in the case of Bergoglio, he was a manifest heretic before his "election" so he could never have attained the office of the papacy in the first place! He was not suggesting that he was open to correction, and he can't be ignorant (at his age) of what the Church taught pre-Vatican II. This is not an "opinion"--it is rank heresy that can be shown by Church teaching on the subject.
I was taught, maybe heretically, I am not sure, that if God ceased even to think about us we would cease to exist. It is only through the power of God that we are. This seems to imply to me that we can be annihilated in body and soul!
He wonders if the seminary taught him heresy? Thank you Vatican II! This, however, is not heresy. The power of God's conservation holds everything in existence.
But I was also taught that we are created with an immortal soul. Is that true? Or can God annihilate the immortal soul of a mortal being? Certainly this is true if God is all powerful, which of course He is!
Once again, God is omnipotent, and could annihilate the soul; but WILL He actually do so? No.
Thus what wiggle room does Pope Francis and any Catholic have in describing what hell actually is? It seems to me that there are no dogmatic descriptions of hell that are considered infallibly defined. Correct me if I am wrong.
Ok, you're wrong. According to theologian Pohle, "The Catholic Church....has repeatedly and solemnly defined that, 'the wicked [will receive] eternal punishment together with the devil'" (IV Lateran Council) And again, "Sacred Scripture inculcates this truth so frequently and unmistakeably that it has been justly said that no other Catholic dogma has such a solid Biblical basis." (See Pohle, Dogmatic Theology 12:46).
For example, I believe that the Church teaches about the existence of hell, but the Church has never taught infallibly that any human soul actually exists there, although this is true in the realm of the theoretical. The Church does teach that Satan and the other fallen angels dwell in hell. But they are angels not humans.
Not quite. While it's true we can't say for certain that anyone is in Heaven except for the canonized saints, we have All Souls Day (November 1) to remind us that there are others in Heaven, even if we can't say for certain whom. Likewise, we are not allowed to say with certainty that any man has definitely been damned, but that does not mean that Hell is empty and only for the devil and his demons. We do know of one damned soul from Scripture, "The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed: it were better for him, if that man had not been born." (See St. Matthew 26:24) Christ clearly teaches that Judas Iscariot would be better off if he had never been born. Before conception, you do not exist. If after death you don't exist once again (annihilation) or go to Heaven, how could non-existence be better than the same condition of non-existence before birth? The passage only makes sense if he was damned as a result of betraying Christ by an act of his own free will.
A Catholic certainly can embrace the theological construct that an immortal soul condemned by God to hell suffers punishment and it is tortuous and could involve flames. But a Catholic could also believe in the torture and flames in figurative way that the immortal soul in hell experiences an absence of God by choice just as the soul did in life. The torture and flames symbolize the eternal knowledge that one has freely chosen to cut oneself off from God and reaps the fruit of their misdeeds and mortal sins. The immortal soul actually exists in hell and has knowledge.
Once again, theologian Pohle to clarify: "Must this term [fire] be taken literally or may it be interpreted in a metaphorical sense? ...The Church has never issued a dogmatic definition on the subject... However, since the literal interpretation is favored by the great majority of Fathers and Scholastics, it may be regarded as "sententia certa." (Ibid 56-57)
But if what Pope Francis believes as is reported by an atheist, that the immortal soul isn't immortal after all that God can annihilate the immortal soul and cause it to cease to exist, wouldn't this be hell too? The hell is that one is gone, completely, body and soul and has absolutely no existence of immortality even in hell, now for the soul and at the Final Judgement in the here after with their body raised from the clay of the earth.
Is it heretical to believe the soul can be annihilated by God and thus in the Final Judgement and the resurrection of the dead, only the dead bodies that have souls in heaven will be raised from the clay of the earth and fashioned after the Glorified Body of our Savior and joined to their immortal soul in heaven? (Emphasis in original)
Fourth Latern Council defines: "All men shall rise again with their own bodies, which they now have, to receive according to their deeds , whether good or bad: the latter, everlasting punishment with the devil, the former, eternal glory with the Lord."
The Athanasian Creed says: "All men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their works; and they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire."
Theologian Pohle: "Hence, it is an article of faith that the souls of the damned as well as those of the Elect will be reunited to their bodies on the last day." (Ibid, 132-133)
Conclusion: Yes, "Fr." McDonald, to believe that only the Elect will be resurrected, and the damned will be annihilated, is heretical. I ask all my readers to pray for you and your readership, so that you all may see your way out of the Vatican II sect before anyone realizes the suffering of Hell is real when you are (God forbid) already there.