It was the summer of 1978, and very hot here in New York City. It was a Saturday and I was having a catch in the street with my dad, when our neighbor "Ed" (not his real name) came over and walked up to my father. I grew up in a very poor section of the city, and New York was going through a tough financial crisis. Ed (about 50 years old at the time) took out a twenty dollar and a five dollar bill from his pocket. To put things in perspective, when adjusted for inflation, $25 in 1978 equals just over $100 in 2018. Ed worked for a company that constructed asphalt roofs, and he made the equivalent of about $17,000 in today's economy. He had a wife and three teens, and they barely made enough to survive. His company, like many of the time, had no pension or provision for their employees to retire. Ed worked long and laborious days for little money. Less than ten years later, the job would claim his life, as he contracted lung cancer from breathing in the carcinogens associated with hot asphalt fumes.
He showed the money to my father and told him, "Today is the day I finally get to retire. I've saved up for weeks to buy lots of lottery tickets and I'm going to win!" (His words as I best remember them). My father wished him luck. Poor Ed was depressed at the end of the week when the only thing he got was $25 less money when he lost. In 2018, there are plenty more like Ed who believe their economic salvation rests with gambling in one form or another. Many others struggle with gambling addictions. The purpose of this post is to lay out the teaching of the Church on gambling, and to offer my reasons why I believe gambling (in all its forms) should be avoided. Please note that Church teaching must be followed, not my opinions. I have no Magisterial authority, and I have never claimed to be a theologian or canonist. Follow what the Church teaches, but my opinion is just that--a layman's opinion, with which you may agree or not.
The Teaching of the Church on Gambling
The eminent Dominican theologian, Fr. Dominic Prummer, distinguishes two types of gambling, betting and gaming.
1. Betting. This is defined as a contract in which two or more persons disputing the truth of some event lay down a sum of money to be given to the person who was right. Theologian Prummer sets out two conditions that must be met in order for bets to be moral. First, they must be made for a morally good purpose, and second, the bet must be made on something that is both lawful and uncertain for both parties.
2. Gaming. This is defined as an aleatory contract [i.e., a contract where an uncertain event determines the parties' rights and obligations] whereby a reward is given to the winner of a contest undertaken as a pastime.
There are three kinds of gaming: (a) Games of Skill are those in which the result of the game depends largely on the skill of the players themselves [e.g. football or horse racing]; (b) Games of Chance which depend purely on random acts requiring no skill [e.g., rolling dice or "craps"]; (c) Games of Mixed Character which depend partly on skill and partly on chance [e.g., poker]. (Prummer lists the lottery under gaming).
In order for games that are played for stakes to be moral, five conditions must all be met:
2. Gaming. This is defined as an aleatory contract [i.e., a contract where an uncertain event determines the parties' rights and obligations] whereby a reward is given to the winner of a contest undertaken as a pastime.
There are three kinds of gaming: (a) Games of Skill are those in which the result of the game depends largely on the skill of the players themselves [e.g. football or horse racing]; (b) Games of Chance which depend purely on random acts requiring no skill [e.g., rolling dice or "craps"]; (c) Games of Mixed Character which depend partly on skill and partly on chance [e.g., poker]. (Prummer lists the lottery under gaming).
In order for games that are played for stakes to be moral, five conditions must all be met:
- The players must be free to dispose of the stakes for which they gamble
- The gamble is undertaken with full knowledge and consent
- The players must have a morally equal chance of winning
- All fraud must be excluded
- Gain must not be the chief motive of the game, neither must it be sought after too eagerly
(See Handbook of Moral Theology, [1957], pgs. 163-164)
One can easily see that while the old Bingo games played pre-Vatican II can easily meet the five criteria, modern casinos and lotteries are much different. Hence, theologian Prummer warned as far back as 1957, "Since games played for stakes are most dangerous because of the serious disorders that often ensue, the confessor should prudently censor them." (Ibid, pg. 164). Likewise, "Civil laws today [1957], as a result of the many abuses which can easily arise, prohibit betting completely or partially or declare it void...These statutes seem to be legitimate and, ordinarily speaking, may be followed in conscience." (Ibid, pg. 164).
Banning gambling seemed legitimate in 1957, and I can only wonder what Fr. Prummer would say today. The fourth and the fifth criteria above seem the hardest to ensure, and there are other evils that go in tandem with gambling---all of which will be considered next.
The Many Serious Problems With Gambling
1. It can become addictive. The American Psychiatric Association (APA's) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, fifth edition (DSM-5), includes gambling addiction as a psychological disorder. No one starts out with compulsions/addictions, they are brought on by people's choices, just like the choice to use drugs leads to drug addiction. Problem gambling is harmful to psychological and physical health. People who live with this addiction may experience depression, migraine, distress, intestinal disorders, and other anxiety-related problems. As with other addictions, the consequences of gambling can lead to feelings of despondency and helplessness. In some cases, this can lead to attempts at suicide. The rate of problem gambling has risen globally over the last few years. In the United States in 2012, around 5.77 million people had a gambling disorder that needed treatment. (See https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/15929.php)
2. Gambling leads to materialism. A new paper in the Journal of Gambling Studies takes this angle. As the authors write, "gambling has never been studied from a materialism perspective."
In other words, for a behavior that involves trying to win money, there’s a surprising lack of research on whether materialistic attitudes are a factor in gambling. To address this gap, the researchers surveyed 65 problem gamblers and 65 non-problem gamblers, administering surveys about their gambling behavior, financial attitudes and self-esteem.
The researchers found that problem gamblers were distinguished from non-problem gamblers by having higher levels of materialism on average. The link between materialism and problem gambling was especially true for those who believe that happiness depends on having material possessions.
(See https://blog.allpsych.com/materialism-and-gambling; Emphasis mine). One can legitimately ask if the materialism causes problem gambling, or problem gambling causes you to become materialistic. I argue that the materialistic mindset is inherent in gambling, whether the person is a compulsive gambler or not. What is the purpose of gambling? To make money for doing nothing productive. It's all about getting money and not having to work.
Christ tells us, "...Take heed and beware of all covetousness; for a man's life doth not consist in the abundance of things which he possesseth." (St. Luke 12:15). Scripture also warns us that "Whoever loves money never has enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with their income.This too is meaningless." (Ecclesiastes 5:10).
3. It exploits the poor. If gambling was a good way to get rich, you would see millionaires, billionaires and upper class professionals playing it, and thanking the government for allowing them to get rich this way. Last month, I went to get gas and thought I'd have to wait on a long line. The line was for "Mega-Millions" with working class poor people ( I saw their cars and clothes) spending their money hoping to "retire" like Ed. Gambling is akin to a tax on the poor and people who can't do math. This is is a mathematical, and statistical fact. Americans spent more than $80 billion on lottery tickets in 2016 -- more than they spent on books, movie tickets, music, video games, and sports tickets -- combined. The odds of winning the "Powerball" or "Mega-Millions" grand prize are, respectively, 1 in 292,201,338 and 1 in 302,575,350. The odds of getting struck by lightening are one in a million. So in 292,000,000, approximately 292 will be struck by lightening, but only one will win "Powerball." Studies also show that the zip codes that spend four times what anyone else does on lottery tickets are those in lower-income parts of cities.
According to a 2008 study reported by Business Insider, households with incomes under $13,000 per year spend 9 percent of that on lottery tickets. As it also pointed out, "you are 17 times more likely to get hit by falling airplane parts than you are to win the lottery." (See https://www.businessinsider.com/households-earning-less-than-13000-a-year-spend-9-of-their-income-on-lottery-tickets-2012-3).
4. Casinos attract crime. Just over ten years ago, in Bangor, Maine, a 41-year-old housekeeper forged $40,000 in checks belonging to elderly people in the assisted-living home where she worked, then gambled it away at Hollywood Slots, a cavernous 1,000-slot-machine establishment. She pleaded guilty, blaming an addiction to gambling, and in 2008 received a three-year prison term. "Casinos, Crime, and Community Costs," published in 2006 in The Review of Economics and Statistics, a prestigious academic journal produced by Harvard and MIT, examined crime rates in every county in the nation covering a period of 20 years – from 1977, just before the first casinos outside Nevada were built in Atlantic City, to 1996. It concluded that opening a casino led to local crime increases averaging eight percent.
5. Gambling is linked to alcoholism. Some people find there is a connection between the effects of alcohol and what happens when they gamble. This may mean they:
- Drink more
- Spend more money gambling
- Stay at the venue for longer than intended (See https://www.gamblinghelponline.org.au/understanding-gambling/impact-on-health/gambling-and-alcohol)
Conclusion
While gambling may be moral, as outlined by theologian Prummer, five factors must be taken into consideration. Can we honestly say that fraud is excluded and financial gain is not the main motive? Here's what gambling does:
- Denigrates the dignity of labor; working for money
- Gives "get rich quick" ideas to the poor, who should be saving their money and not gambling
- Materialistic attitudes are created and/or exacerbated, leading to addiction
- Attracts crime where casinos are built
- Increases depression and drunkenness (leading to alcoholism in many cases)
Is this something in which a Traditionalist should participate? In my opinion, no. Donate the money to your Chapel or Church and have the Holy Sacrifice offered for your intentions or for someone's soul instead. If your Church or chapel has Bingo or a raffle, that's fine. Government sponsored gambling is bad news. Several years ago, the state of California was pushing its citizens to buy more Powerball tickets. You saw ping pong balls falling from the sky while the song California Dreamin' played. The message was "Believe in Something Bigger." Unfortunately, they did not mean God. Need any more be said?
I spent the summer if 1978 doing asphalt roofing in NYC. My uncle was a foreman for a roofing company in the South Bronx.
ReplyDeleteWow! Tom, you have first hand experience of how hard (and dangerous) it is to be in that line of work! Thankfully, I’m assuming it wasn’t your occupation and you avoided serious illness. Deo gratias!
DeleteGod Bless,
—-Introibo
It was just a summer job before going off to college and then the Air Force.
DeleteI was also there the summer before with him when the lights went out for a few days. Many areas looked like a war zone after the looting. It is amazing how much Rudy Guliani cleaned that place up. The 70s were not kind to NYC. I also remember in those days how lame going to mass was becoming. Already, many of my relatives had stopped going to Mass on Sunday. I was close to my Grandparents and they still went along with my mother. But already by the late 70s, V2 and the NO had taken a huge toll on my family. Cousins no longer went. Some even became evangelical. Soon, I too stopped going the NO. It would be another decade before I started regular Mass attendance again.
DeleteTom,
DeleteIn just 15 years after the beginning of the V2 sect(1964), the effects of devastation were apparent everywhere. The Immaculate Conception Seminary for the formerly Catholic Dioceses Of Brooklyn and Rockville Centre (Long Island) named their library in honor of George Tyrrell, a Modernist, apostate priest who died excommunicated by Pope St Pius X, and was unrepentant.The Novus Bogus “mass” was being made relevant by having “folk masses” incorporating banal songs (at best) and evil contemporary rock songs (at worst). There was actually a “mass” where teens were encouraged to “toast” the host in a candle flame(!)
It was and remains a Satanic mess that took control of our once Catholic places of worship. I remember thinking it ironic that they played “Take Our Bread” as they collected the money! Now, they could play “Take Our Innocence And Faith.”
God Bless,
—-Introibo
I remember our Novus Ordo "church" sang
Delete"Dust in the Wind" by Kansas circa early 1980's.
As a very young child I thought it was bizarre, especially rembering my Father's first holy communion pics from 1949.
-ANDREW
@Andrew
Delete“Dust in the Wind” by the rock group “Kansas,” is about the meaninglessness of life...”all we are is dust in the wind.” Not exactly what you’d want to hear about life from alleged “Catholics.” Ironically, Kansas converted to Protestantism and their last album “Drastic Measures” (a reference to their conversation) was full of godly messages. It was largely shunned by mainstream radio. Kerry Livgren went on to produce Christian Rock as did band member John Elephante, who also started his own Christian record label.
God Bless,
—-Introibo
In the mid-1980’s I visited Ireland for 2 weeks. Unfortunately, the most notable observation I made was the enormous amount of gambling and drinking in the Country. The gambling was everywhere. Mostly horse gambling. There were “bookie” shops on almost every corner. The bar patrons would go to the bookie shops and place their bets and return to the bar to resume their drinking and watch the races on the TV. The betting was not just limited to the men, but the women as well. Most notably was the amount of betting among the elderly women. Betting was not just limited to horse racing, but included, soccer, golf, etc. It seemed everyone I met was into some form of gambling on a habitual basis. I have often wondered if part of the reason that Ireland has become so depraved as to allow abortion and same sex marriage is because of the enormous amount of gambling and drinking that has been so very pervasive in the Irish culture?? I was looked upon as being very odd by the Irish people as I neither drank or gambled. I have travelled half way around the world and Ireland is one Country that I would never return to because of the gambling and drinking. No, I am not being bigoted as I am 1/2 Irish.
ReplyDeleteJoann,
DeleteYour observation is interesting and deserves merit. When people become materialistic their heart and minds are far from God. I never thought of it like that. Thanks, as always, for adding to the discussion on this blog! I wonder if any of my other readers would like to comment on what Joann has written? I’d like to hear other opinions on a connection between gambling and moral degradation in all areas.
God Bless,
—-Introibo
Introibo - Also, I have wondered why the Irish people so readily accepted Vatican II and the Novus Ordo, as Ireland was a Catholic Country. Again, I think it was due to the perverse amount of gambling and drinking in the Country. The Irish people welcomed Vatican II and all it’s heresies with open arms. Then came abortion and same sex marriage.
DeleteJoann,
DeleteThat was one factor, but many other Catholic countries paganized themselves too. Gambling and drinking (in my opinion, after thinking about what you wrote) was one big factor. I think we also have to lay blame on the lack of informed Catholics, who took their Faith for granted, and went along with the farce that was V2!
—-Introibo
Introibo - To clarify, there were plenty of informed pre-Vatican II people who didn’t protest Vatican II in Ireland. The majority of people I saw that were drinking and gambling were the elderly, pre-Vatican II people, who went to Mass every Sunday. Of course this was in the 80’s when I was there.
DeleteThe one thing that baffles me about gambling is that there is no chemical being ingested. Therefore, I don’t understand how it can be an addiction?? With drugs and alcohol a chemical is being ingested. Also, since drinking lowers the defenses, I can understand how drinking goes along with gambling. Alcohol lowers the defense threshold and therefore it becomes easier to gamble the grocery or rent money away without a second thought.
Joann,
DeleteJust because someone lived during the pre-Vatican II era doesn’t mean they learned the Faith (unfortunately). Both my parents lost their Faith after Vatican II, and stopped going to Church. When I brought them back and they started receiving proper instruction at Church, they marveled at how much they DIDN’T know!!
That’s not to say some knew and threw their Faith away!
Gambling is psychologically driven by greed. “One more ticket (or roll of the dice, etc) and I’ll be rich!” It’s addiction to a sinful materialistic mindset.
God Bless,
—-Introibo
Thanks for another thought-provoking post.
ReplyDeleteWhen I look at some of the people who buy lottery tickets at convenience stores, I think, "These people would have no clue what to do with so much money." There are many stories of people who won lotteries or big contests who were intellectually or psychologically unable to handle it, and wound up being victimized by financial predators or who mismanaged it to the point of even ending in debt, worse off than before.
Two saints I can think of to pray to are Camillus de Lellis and St. Bernardine of Siena. The former having been a gambler himself, and the latter having great success in converting people away from it.
Barbara,
DeleteYou bring up a very true and valid point regarding those who come into sudden wealth. Another strike against gambling! Thank you for the great recommendations on the saints who can best intercede and help!
God Bless,
---Introibo
Thank you for the information on those 2 particular Saints.
DeleteGood article by the way.
God bless.
-Andrew
Andrew,
DeleteThanks for the kind words and thanks again to Barbara!
God Bless you both,
—-Introibo
I suggest writing an article on feminism and how Men have allowed Women to usurp authority.
ReplyDeleteChickens are coming home to roost via 2018 elections,college enrollments,etc...
Every remnant or Christendom is gone,including the dissolution of the nuclear family.(which is central to a Christian society)
- Andrew
Feminism, with the pro-abortion and pro-lesbian, anti-family ideology is very evil and I may do a post about it. Please keep in mind that men have destroyed the Church. Yes, feminism is evil, but men have much to account for—and not just accepting feminism!
DeleteGod Bless,
—-Introibo
We hear a lot about feminism being an evil and it is, We hear a lot about women usurping authority - and some do, However, it has been my experience that we hear very little, if nothing, about Ephesians 5:25 “Men love your wives as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her”. Perhaps if men practiced Ephesians 5:25 more there would be less feminism? Just a thought.
DeleteJoann,
DeleteA thought with which I wholeheartedly agree!
—-Introibo
Introibo, if you do write about feminism, please do not ignore the colossal pornography and prostitution industry which has created a culture where the majority of men take sick pleasure in watching young women being degraded and abused. The videos get more extreme with every year. How can we expect justice for victims of sexual violence in a society where almost all of the male judges and prosecutors ENJOY watching videos of sexual violence as a hobby? It is a very heavy topic that is almost completely invisible. Most anti-pornography literature, to add insult to injury, only decry the negative psychological or physiological effects on the male consumers, with apparently no sympathy for the exploited women and how this culture of violence and misogyny hurts all women in a very profound way.
DeleteSarah,
DeleteWhat you say is very true. I will be sure to include such in any post on feminism. I have written a post on pornography, which is a cursory overview of the massive problem.
See http://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2017/06/if-your-eye-causes-you-to-sin.html?m=1
God Bless,
—-Introibo
Pornography addiction has skyrocketed with regard to women.
DeleteIt's not just a Male problem.
-Andrew
@Andrew
DeleteTrue, but women are still impacted the most. What’s really frightening is the increase in child porn. God save us.
God Bless,
—-Introibo
If you look at any Sex Offender Register in this Country, the majority of sex offenders are men. I would say about 99.9% are men. Also, the child pornography rates have skyrocketed. The amount of so called Vatican II priests that have been found to have child porn in their possession or on their computers is astronomical. The rate of human trafficking has also skyrocketed. Who is producing all of this child porn? Who is behind all the human trafficking and sex slavery going on? I would say the majority by a mile are men. Men are supposed to protect women and children, not exploit them!
DeleteI don't have stats handy but
Delete"what you would say" (i.e. opinion) and hard facts are 2 separate issues.
I don't recall myself or anyone else denying aforementioned topics not being a problem.
God bless.
-ANDREW
@Introibo I don't disagree but Men are affected too,in many various ways.
DeletePornography is a sociological nuclear bomb which destroys familes men women children and society without firing a single shot.
I can't help but notice veiled contempt and subsequent prosecution of "most Men",based upon opinions or feelings,whenever feminism and pornography are discussed.(in general not everytime)
I myself have experienced a few women saying and doing terrible things to me personally.
With that said,I DO NOT convict most women being responsible for all pain, suffering,misfortune, Psychological abuse,etc...
Feminism has driven a wedge so far between the sexes that I fear it cannot be healed.
Just read a story about a young woman who broke her spine during a professional formula car race.
Meanwhile,Muslim and Hindu women are having so many children they will be the overwhelming majority of the West in 10-15 yrs if things don't change.
I'm not bashing women but this is a deep rooted problem with many branches.
This is not a healthy society and no one has any answers.
God bless
-ANDREW
@JoAnn I specifically stated
Delete"...and how Men HAVE ALLOWED Women to usurp authority..."
-ANDREW
@Andrew
DeleteIn all due respect, you're only proving my point. I can't even condemn the evils of a multi-billion dollar industry (larger than Hollywood) that almost exclusively produces videos of vulnerable women (many of them still in their teens!) being violently abused and humiliated by men without someone chiming in, "Well, recently some women watch it too." Do you even hear yourself? Lol. It's sick.
@Andrew - In what context do you mean “Men have allowed women to usurp authority”??
DeleteAndrew @9:54 - “I didn’t recall myself or anyone else denying aforementioned topics not being a problem”. I didn’t state that you or anyone else did. I was voicing my opinion.
Delete@Sarah I don't recall saying porn is ok because Women are now being affected by addiction.
DeleteIf you think my comment is "sick" you shouldn't type 'LOL.'
My subsequent comment specifically stated these socially engineered abominations affect Men Women Children Families and Society.
@JoAnn I typed that comment last night and was tired.
DeleteI apologise and can't remember what my point was,honestly.
I am sorry and will respond to other question later.
-Andrew
@Andrew
DeleteIt is a statistical fact that MOST (= THE MAJORITY OF) MEN in America watch porn regularly. And yes, it is very sick that you only seem to have sympathy for the people who get addicted to the sick pleasure of watching women get abused, instead of the women actually getting abused.
Imagine if child porn were finally legalized, and you said, "Well recently addiction to child porn has skyrocketed in children, so it's not an adult problem." And even though the primary victims are the children being exploited and abused on and off camera, your only concern is for the people who enjoy watching it and how it affects men's status as head of his family.
The breakdown of the family started with the Protestant revolt. Feminism would not be able to exist were it not proceeded and heralded in by Anglo-Protestant misogyny and exploitation of the poor and weak.
Sorry to Introibo to keep harping on this, but it is just too outrageous to ignore anymore... (Also, thank you for your linked article.)
Delete@Andrew
"I myself have experienced a few women saying and doing terrible things to me personally.
With that said,I DO NOT convict most women being responsible for all pain, suffering,misfortune, Psychological abuse,etc..."
It's just so pathetic I barely have words.
Let me use the child abuse example again, because it equally applies to women. It is a statistical FACT that children are raped, abused, harrassed, trafficked into sex slavery, and murdered by adults at a rate exponentially larger than adult victims of violent children. Would you also deny this as an emotional and mean-spirited argument because "a few times some children said and did terrible things" to you? And pretend like children are some monolith usurping the authority of adults, even while millions of destitute children are being coerced into (legal) sexual slavery?
In my life, I've only met one man who was ever raped (by another man, of course). But I know dozens of female rape victims. I've only known a few men who have ever been sexually harrassed and threatened (by other men), but I have never even met a single woman who hasn't had this experience repeatedly from the time of puberty.
If you are really concerned with repairing the relations between the sexes, you should get your priorities in order. The scourge of a few rich, uppity women in cushy office jobs which were traditionally male, or quotas which bar men out of overpriced, virtually useless college courses... Does this really reflect men letting women usurp authority in a society where the violent commodification of women and children's bodies (prostitution, surrogacy, abortion) for the pleasure of men is being increasingly normalized? Where teenage girls are being pressured and blackmailed into taking pornographic selfies, and killing themselves when they get leaked? Where every neighborhood has multiple MALE sex offenders, some of them who only served a few dozen months for molesting underaged girls?
Sure, feminism let a minority of privileged women invade former seats of male power in the government and industry. But how does this compare the women having to share bathrooms, showers, locker rooms, etc. with perverted "transsexual" men invading into spaces where we are most vulnerable? In the U.S., now women aren't even allowed to escape from their violent husbands or pimps without being expected to bunk up with autogynophilic sodomites in battered women's shelters. In England they're letting violent male inmates into female wards for claiming "trans identity"-- one such male inmate recently started raping the females there (imagine my shock).
But sure, male and female violence and suffering are totally equal, because some women said some horrible things to you. Sorry for being an emotional, irrational woman. Please go on, tell us about how feminism is the worst thing ever because women are usurping men's authority.....
One of the big turn offs to me about Traditionalism that I have experienced is the men’s treatment of women. I sometimes think that if the men could take away the women’s right to vote, right to drive a car, etc., they would. Even some Traditionalist women seem to be in agreement with them. For example, I was on another blog before I found this one, and was told by a woman moderator that I asked too many questions, was way too vocal and to go and “read a book” or “bake a pie”!! God gave me a brain, God gave me a voice, God gave me an intellect and talents, and I intend to use them to their fullest extent. We are all supposed to “grow in Grace and knowledge”. The day that I stop questioning, stop voicing an opinion and stop researching, I will be in a box 6 feet under!! (Just my experience and opinion, no more or no less)!!
Delete(Continued) Forgot to mention above that I have been openly criticized by men and women for working outside the home for years.
DeleteI’m sorry you experienced that treatment, Joann. I’m glad you will voice your opinion which is your God-given right! This is one blog that makes no such false dichotomies.
Delete“There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 3:28.
God Bless,
—-Introibo
Re-read my comments,please.
DeleteWhere did I or anyone else insult women?
I pointed out facts and how this affects everyone in multiple ways,including women.
Stop insulting people who are rationally and respectfully pointing out facts.
Strawman and insults detract from your point and look hysterical.
Respectfully,
Andrew
@Andrew 1:35 - I don’t know to whom you are referencing, however, I would like to make a rebuttal, particularly to the “hysterical” comment. Some of us women have been sexally molested and assaulted beginning at a very young age. Sometimes the people who were supposed to protect us didn’t. Sometimes the people who we went to for help against perpetrators did nothing and turned a blind eye. Sometimes we have had to live with the thought that since we were not protected and our story disregarded we were somehow at fault for the perpetrators actions. (Victims of sexual assault have a tendency to turn the blame on themselves especially after the people you go to for help disregard you). Some of us that have been sexually assaulted, had to bury the pain for years, and when we finally speak out we are now being labeled as “hysterical”. Perhaps if you had gone through being sexually assaulted, being disbelieved when you reported it to people who were supposed to protect you, perhaps you would be “hysterical” too!! Society has tossed us aside and the courts have retraumatized and revictimized us for too long. The rage that we have had to suppress and internalize for so long is finally coming out. No, the rage, the righteous anger being expressed by victims is not a pretty sight to behold, but only the “truth will set you free”.
DeleteNothing I said was even close to being emotional.
DeleteAndrew claims that "men allowed women to usurp authority" in modern society. I pointed out, with many objective facts and examples, that women as a whole are more powerless and exploited (commodified and violently abused) than ever before and the problem is getting worse. Most so-called "usurping of authority" is only happening superficially in the upper classes. So Andrew, instead of trying to refute the objective facts or construct an opposing logical argument based on reality claims, makes several vague, emotional pleas with no logical substance (even denying the fact that only a negligile fraction of a percent of sex offenders are women)... and then accuses us of "hysterically" attacking him.
Whether I have been raped or abused before or not has no bearing on my argument. It's a typical tactic, when you have no logical rebuttal, to accuse the opponent of insanity. So suggesting I'm a "righteously angry rape victim" letting off steam doesn't really help.
I pointed out clear facts that destroy this right/left false dichotomy media-induced delusion that women are powerful, liberative, and authoritative in modern society. The truth is secular society preys on the weak, starting with poor children and women. Instead of accepting this truth, lets just pull the "women are emotional" card instead of hurting the man's little fee fees for being a moron who can't argue....
And before Andrew tries to obfuscate again with the "hey this bad stuff hurts EVERYONE" -- Yes, it does. The point is, it has been hurting the most vulnerable women and children a lot more, which proves your argument about women "usurping authority" wrong. In a female-dominated society, you wouldn't have websites exclusively dedicared to videos of young girls getting violently abused for the sexual pleasure of men, having a higher view rate than Facebook, Twitter, and Amazon COMBINED, for example.
DeleteYes, the sadism of modern man hurts him too. Just like you might hurt your fist when punching someone else in the face.
And repeating "this affects EVERYONE" to obfuscate the facts is a vague, emotional -- shall I say, hysterical? -- argument.
DeleteThe sadism of modern man hurts himself in the way you might hurt your fist while punching someone else in the face. The fact remains that the booming and growing industry of sex trafficking of women and children (pornography, prostitution, surrogacy, abortion, etc) dismantles the argument that we live in a female-dominated society where men are "losing power".
(Ah, sorry for the double-post. I thought the first one didn't go through and rephrased it).
DeleteAnyway, I've made my point. No use talking in circles.
Thank you so much, Introibo, for letting me use your platform and for being one of the few men nowadays who doesn't try to ignore the sad truth about "feminism" by parroting right/left wing talking points. :)
God bless,
Sarah
Sarah,
DeleteI always learn from my readers, and I think we all learn from each other! Thank you for commenting. I try to be fair-minded, and your comments, along with my other readers are always welcome.
Traditionalists may not always agree, but as long as we can agree to disagree agreeably in this time of Great Apostasy, we make strides towards understanding each other and the plight of the Church.
God Bless,
—-Introibo
Thank you, Introibo!
DeleteYes, I've noticed that many traditionalists have fallen into the "right wing" of hegelian freemasonic liberalism.
So, for example, the left says "women are gaining freedom, which is a great thing!" while the right says "women are gaining freedom, which is a terrible thing!" As Catholics with the true Faith of Jesus Christ, we should be able to see that the "religious" right side of this argument is a half-truth founded on the same bedrock of freemasonic liberalism, where "freedom" is defined as the ability to stray from God and His commandments, which is indeed slavery to Satan, the most oppressive despotic ruler. The more "liberated" are indeed the more enslaved. The more "equality" means the more injustice -- powerful are exalted and weak are oppressed. Everything is a Satanic inversion.
We also see this in the Novus Ordo hierarchy, which claims to be increasingly "decentralized", as if the "clerics" have been humbled and have less power and the laymen are more liberated and powerful. The Vatican 2 right sees this as a bad and the left as a good development.
But sedevacantists with the true faith (should) know that this is actually a satanic inversion and hegelian dialectic; that the parishioners are tithing to extortionists who live in decadent luxury, prey on their children, all the while depriving them of the spiritual benefits which they are supposed to be getting from these authorities, who are sending their souls to an eternity of slavery in hell -- the ultimate betrayal. So, the tradeoff is a superficial breakdown of authority, a false "equality" between clergy and laymen, when really the Novus Ordite laymen are much more oppressed than Catholics ever were even under corrupt clergy in past eras. Even when you had cases of power abuse or neglect of duties from the clergy in the past, they were still fulfilling the bare minimum requirements of providing valid sacraments and teaching the true faith necessary for salvation, for example.
It is really sad that so many sedevacantists are brainwashed by the lies of right-wing secular media instead of following true Catholic principles and morality.
I do appreciate civil debate (and maybe I should be more civil about it lol) but this is something I simply can't agree to disagree on. A lot of true Catholics, if they don't break away from the "wisdom of the world" and truly renounce the world in deed and truth, will perish because of it.
Ultimately, the issue is true conversion to the faith away from sin. Until that happens, society will get worse. Thankfully, we still have the sacraments from our traditional priests and we will always have our rosary.
ReplyDeleteDavid,
DeleteYou write the truth most don’t see!
God Bless,
—-Introibo
You crazy sedes are really just like them Jehovah's. So are you going to ban Christmas trees and birthday's too? Those evil birthdays have to go next just admit it!!!
ReplyDelete@anonymous10:53
DeleteYou’re the typical Vatican II know-nothing.
In this post I:
1. Gave the teaching of the Church regarding gambling as taught by theologian Prummer
2. Demonstrated the Church has 5 requirements for gambling to be morally licit
3. Gave evidence that at least 2 of those 5 requirements are NOT met by government gambling
What have you offered in terms of a rebuttal? Nada. Nothing. Zilch. Zero. You simply call names (ad hominem attacks are fallacious), and make a stupid analogy to JWs.
More intellectual vigor from Vatican II !
—-Introibo
The "Jehova Witness", (just as the novus ordo sect) are too recent for being the true religion. Christ would not be Christ if he saved us one day and His Church came more than 15 centuries later.
DeleteYou should not be ashamed because you are "more traditional" "more religious" or "more Christian". You should be ashamed if your religion pretends to be the Catholic Church, has a "Mass" celebrated in garages and horrible toaster-looking "worship spaces", with secular guitars and invalid sacraments.
A little bit of research (and prayer) would be necessary before speaking without thinking enough.
For Greater Glory of God;
Long Life Christ The King and Our Virgin Of Guadalupe.
@poni
DeleteWell put my friend!
---Introibo
Actually, banning Birthdays would be a good idea. People can go back to the tradition of celebrating their Saint's Name Day or celebrating their Baptismal Day. Both of which are far more meaningful and take the focus off of self.
Delete@Tom A,
DeleteWhen did self-annihilation become healthy or Catholic?
@TomA
DeleteWhile celebrating Your saint’s name day is laudable, I cannot condemn those who celebrate their birthday. The Church has always permitted such and never declared it a sin. Traditionalists must not make up sins and transgressions where none exist!
—-Introibo
Anon 12:21:
DeleteSelf-annihilation is wrong when you commit suicide for example; but it is NOT bad to practice penance and deprive yourself from licit goods in order to avoid sin. Remember: ""No, I say to you; but except you do penance, you shall all likewise perish." (Luke, 13:5).
It is not "self-annihilation" because this actions may lead you to Heaven.
For Greater Glory of God;
Long Life Christ the King and Our Lady of Guadalupe.
Anon 12:21: He must increase, I must decrease. In order to save your life, you must lose it. Christ talked much about dying to self. It is not celebrating a milestone that is sinful. Just like gambling itself is not sinful. When these things mean more to us than God is when we sin.
Delete@poni
DeleteI was speaking metaphorically when I used the term “self-annihilation”. A better term would be “gnostic”. God made us in His image and likeness and what is wrong with celebrating that fact?? We are commanded to “love our neighbor as OUR SELF”. We are not commanded to “self-hate”, or “self-loathe”, or “detest” ourselves”. People mistake self-love for selfishness and the two are totally different. Anything can be carried to an extreme - “the truth lies in the middle”!!
Who said anything about self loathing? The point is to love God more than oursleves. Our modern culture is obsessed with self and I am sick and tired of hearing of anything that speaks of "celebrating" self.
DeleteAll I am trying to say is that we are commanded to love our neighbor as our self. If you are not loving yourself, then what are you doing? I agree that there is way too much emphasis on self, however, there is a healthy God given self-love that we are commanded to aspire to.
DeleteAnon @10:53 - I know people who are not Jehovah Witnesses, but Novus Ordo who tell me they hate celebrating birthdays and Christmas because they have to buy gifts or give money to other people. They are that selfish and stingy.
DeleteAnon 10:27.
ReplyDeleteYes, i also did not denied that you can love thyself, and you must love your neighbor. You can read my comment again; i am not lying to you.
For Greater Glory of God,
Long Life Christ the King and Our Lady of Guadalupe.
poni,
DeleteMy apologies. I was responding to Tom and should have indicated so.
No Trouble
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhat if you were playing the lotto and had in mind that if you won it would go to Church as a donation, would it be wrong?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, your hypothetical would meet all 5 requirements for gambling to be moral. However, it would take an enormous amount of Will power and self-discipline to be so detached from the world that you would give away a million dollars and not keep some, most, or all of it.
DeleteSome people may use the “donation” excuse to gamble, but in reality they are addicted and/or trying to look noble as they know their true motives are from greed.
God Bless,
—-Introibo
Thank you.
DeleteIntroibo - I know women who attend Bingo 6-7 nights a week!! They are not going to get rich playing Bingo by any stretch. I don’t think it is greed driving them. Could it be an escape or some kind of coping device that drives them to spend their evenings in a Bingo Hall? Also, some of the same women who play Bingo nightly say that when they start playing slots in a Casino that they can’t stop. I found this hard to believe, but I witnessed a relative playing slots and she just would not leave the slot machine she was playing on. We had to actually take her by both arms and lift her off the seat and hold on to her until she was out the door of the Casino!! It was mind boggling to me that this person reacted the way they did to a machine!!
ReplyDeleteJoann,
DeleteGambling can definitely be an escape. Any thing in our life that dominates our behavior is a problem and possibly sinful.
Your relative is a perfect example of a gambling addiction. Just like Obessive-compulsive disorders compel people to (for example) wash their hands 200 times a day, gambling with a slot machine can also be compulsive. Another strike against gambling!
God Bless,
—-Introibo
Introibo - What do you think about poker? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteJoann,
DeleteIt depends. If we’re talking about two or three married couples playing for a few dollars, the conditions for moral gambling would seem to be satisfied. Any government approved gambling (e.g. casino gambling) would be bad, in my opinion. I know some men quite addicted (and have lost substantial money) playing “Texas Holdem.”
God Bless,
—-Introibo