Monday, July 10, 2023

What Vatican II Could Have Been

 

My best friend is an ardent reader of what have been called "alternate history books." The premise of these books is to posit a realistic scenario (or scenarios) if something in history had happened differently. To give but a single example of such books, there is one entitled Dropping the Atomic Bomb on Hirohito & Hitler: What Might Have Happened if the A-Bomb Had Been Ready Early by Jim Mangi. A description is given by the publisher:

...what might have happened if the atom bomb had been available somewhat earlier than it really was (?) What if the atomic bomb had been ready for deployment in, say, February 1945? Had the atomic bomb been ready sooner, how would this have affected the war in Europe, and in particular Germany’s surrender? What would the impact have been in the war in the Pacific against Imperial Japan, and how would the Soviets have reacted? And what would the following Cold War have looked like? These are all questions and scenarios that the author rigorously examines. Solidly based on real people and actual events, in this book James Mangi describes the Manhattan Project to build the atom bomb getting an earlier start after President Roosevelt appointed an energetic scientist, Walter Mendenhall, to study the feasibility of the bomb, instead of the more traditional bureaucrat, Lyman Briggs, he actually chose. This scenario, he reveals, might well have produced a war-ending atomic bomb earlier, the effects of which rippled through the post-war world.

I must admit that it is most interesting to ponder such things, even though I almost exclusively read non-fiction. These books are partial non-fiction as they are based on certain real persons, facts, and situations. The rest is fictitious speculation and conjecture. I'm willing to bet many (perhaps even most) Traditionalists have wondered what the Church and the world would have been like now had the Robber Council never taken place. 

Recently, I was reading the original drafts of six documents of Vatican II, translated from the Latin by a Vatican II sect priest, Fr. Joseph A. Komonchak (ordained 1963). I started contemplating a different kind of alternate Church history. What if Cardinal Ottaviani had been validly elected at the October 1958 conclave and had taken the name of "Pope Pius XIII"? (Fr. DePauw informed me that it was Cardinal Ottaviani, not Siri, who was the favorite to win, and Ottaviani was so sure of the outcome, he even chose the name Pius prior to entering that fateful conclave ---Introibo). What if those drafts (called schemas) had been duly passed by a True Council called by Pope Pius XIII to combat modern errors? Thanks to Fr. Komonchak, we can have a pretty good speculative outlook. 

Although these schemata carry no Magisterial authority at all (as they were never passed), it nevertheless shows what the most erudite, orthodox, approved theologians taught on various subjects, and furthermore believed that it was ripe for being defined by the Church. I must admit, those theologians were prescient; it was as if they knew what would happen if certain errors were left unchecked. I will highlight some salient points, and you, the reader, can imagine what Vatican II could have been. 

A Catalogue of Errors Condemned
Preliminary note: These schemata were the product of the very best and most Anti-Modernist approved theologians under Pope Pius XII. However, they were drafts made to be worked on at the Council. If there were a true pope, each schema would be debated and subject to additions, omissions, and alterations by the Council. When in final form, if it should pass by majority vote of the Bishops, it would then be presented to the pope for his approval and promulgation. Only then would it have binding Magisterial authority. For my purposes here, I will assume these schemata were each in their final form and approved/promulgated by (the alternate history) Pope Pius XIII. 

What follows is what jumped out at me while reading each schema. The six drafts were:

1. DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE SOURCES OF REVELATION (SR).
2.  DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH (CC).
3. DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DEFENDING INTACT THE DEPOSIT OF FAITH (DDF)
4.  DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHRISTIAN MORAL ORDER (CMO)
5. A DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON CHASTITY, MARRIAGE, THE FAMILY, AND VIRGINITY (CMFV).
6. DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY, MOTHER OF GOD, AND MOTHER OF MEN (BVM)

The text of each schema cited will be in red font. My commentary will be in the usual black font and all emphasis (in red or black) is mine.

From the schema on the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (CC)

a) The One True Church of Christ is the Mystical Body of Christ and Identical To the Apostolic Roman Church. 

Para. #4: But of all the figures, because it more clearly expresses the social element along with the mystical, the principal one is the figure of the body which, at Christ's inspiration, Paul used: "And he is the Head of the Body of the Church" (Col 1:18); "which is His Body and the fulness of Him who fills all in all" (Eph 1:23). For all those who have entered the Church through baptism and have put on Christ in the communion of the saints, since they share in the one Eucharistic Bread, are made perfect in the unity of the one Body: "Because there is one bread, we, though many, are one body, for we all share in the one bread" (1 Cor 10:17). 

This paragraph cites to Pope Pius XII's encyclical, Mystici Corporis, and raises its teaching (already taught since St. Paul himself) to dogma. 

Concluding paragraph: The holy Synod teaches and solemnly professes, therefore, that there is only a single true Church of Jesus Christ, that Church which in the Creed we proclaim to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic, the Church which the Savior acquired for Himself on the cross and joined to Himself as body to head and as bride to bridegroom, the Church which, after His resurrection, He handed over to be governed by St. Peter and his successors, the Roman Pontiffs. Therefore, only the
Catholic Roman is rightly called the Church.

A most beautiful exposition of Catholic dogma that unequivocally states the One True Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, is identical to the Catholic Roman Church. In the footnote, it explains the appellation "Catholic Roman:"  The First Vatican Council deliberately said "Catholic apostolic Roman" and not "Roman Catholic," because the latter smacks of the doctrine of the three branches. The so-called "Branch Theory" was advanced by Anglican heretics in the 18th century. They taught that the Catholic Church is comprised of three "branches;" the Eastern Church, the Roman Church, and the Anglican Church. These schismatic branches, according to the heretical theory, will eventually be united into the future "ecumenical" Church, a synthesis of all of the confessional Churches at present separated in practice but united in origin and substance with the reality of apostolic Catholicism. To avoid any connection with such false ecclesiology, the term "Catholic Roman" Church was employed. 

Compare the damnable Vatican II sect document on the Church which replaced this one, Lumen Gentium, para. #8:
This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him, although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure.

The Church of Christ is therefore distinct from the Catholic Roman Church. It "subsists" there because it contains all the "elements" but it subsists in other sects too according to how many "elements" each one has. To have all the elements is best, but to have just some is good too, and leads to salvation. This is the heresy in ecclesiology that leads to all the other errors and heresies in Vatican II. 

b) Feeneyism Condemned. Baptism of Desire is Expressly Taught. 

Para. #8: The Holy Synod teaches, as God's Holy Church has always taught, that the Church is necessary for salvation and that no one can be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded by God through Jesus Christ, nevertheless refuses to enter her or to persevere in Her. Just as no one can be saved except by receiving baptism--by which anyone who does not pose some obstacle to incorporation becomes a member of the Church--or at least by desire for baptism, so also no one can attain salvation unless he is a member of the Church or at least is ordered towards the Church by desire. But for anyone to attain to salvation, it is not enough that he be really a member of the Church or be by desire ordered towards it; it is also required that he die in the state of grace, joined to God by faith, hope, and charity.

Cited by the schema as authorities for this formulation:  For the teaching of the Church, see the Athanasian Creed (Dz 40); Pelagius II, Letter Dilectionis vestris (Dz 247); Innocent III, Profession of Faith for the Waldensians (Dz 423); Boniface VIII, Bull Unam sanctam (Dz 468); Clement VI, Epist. Super quibusdam (Dz 570b); the Council of Florence, Decree for the Jacobites (Dz 714); the Tridentine Profession of Faith (Dz 1000); Benedict XIV, Profession of Faith for the Maronites (Dz 1473); Gregory XVI, Enc. Mirari vos (Dz 1613); Pius IX, Enc. Quanto conficiamur maerore (Dz 1677); Syllabus, n. 16-17 (Dz 1716-17); Pius XII, Mystici Corporis (AAS 35 [1943], pp. 242-43); Humani generis (Dz 2319); Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston, Aug. 8, 1949.

Note well that the top theologians cite to the very documents the Feeneyites claim exclude Baptism of Desire (e.g., Unam Sanctam). Bye, bye Fred and Bobby! For someone who wishes to do all God wants of him, and leads a morally upright life by cooperating with actual graces, God can, before the moment of death, infuse his intellect with Faith, and give him perfect contrition so as to fill the soul with sanctifying grace. He therefore dies within the Church and in the state of grace; the requirements to be saved. 

c) That the Sacraments are not permitted to non-Catholics, is once more affirmed.

Para. #54: The principal obstacle to liturgical communion between Catholics and the separated brethren is the nature of the communion in worship by which the members of the Church themselves are linked with one another. For the communion of the members of the Church with one another in their sacred worship is a gift of Christ himself, given solely to his one Church, by which the union in faith and in communion under one supreme pastor is consummated and which is a sign of that unity in truth and love by which the Church is the mystical Body of Christ and already here on earth a figure and anticipation of heavenly union in Christ.

Since, therefore, in the sacred liturgy, carried out by ministers in Christ's name and with the Church's mandate, the communion of the faithful confesses the faith of the Church (see Acts 2:42), active participation in the sacred liturgy must per se be considered a certain profession of faith.

Consequently, the active participation of dissident Christians both in the very worship of the Church in general and in particular receptions of the sacraments generally cannot be permitted, since, intrinsically, it is contrary to the unity of faith and communion and, extrinsically, it obscures the sign of the unity of the Body of Christ, and from such defects the dangers of religious indifferentism, interconfessionalism, and scandal often flow.

Compare to Vatican II's decree for Eastern Rite Churches, Orientalium Ecclesiarum, para. #27:

Without prejudice to the principles noted earlier, Eastern Christians who are in fact separated in good faith from the Catholic Church, if they ask of their own accord and have the right dispositions, may be admitted to the sacraments of Penance, the Eucharist and the Anointing of the Sick. 

d) There is but One True Church of Christ that ALWAYS possesses Unity, Catholicity, Holiness, and Apostolicity.

Para. #48: Since the Church, as the One and unique institution of salvation, was built by Christ to be the one and only sign lifted up among the nations, nothing can ever intrinsically violate Her unity.

The Church is always One, Catholic, Holy, and Apostolic. No amount of those leaving to start or join false sects can ever change that. Compare to Vatican II's decree on ecumenism, Unitatis Redintegratio, para. #4 where heretical and schismatic sects impede the Church from being "fully Catholic:"

Nevertheless, the divisions among Christians prevent the Church from attaining the fullness of catholicity proper to Her, in those of her sons who, though attached to Her by Baptism, are yet separated from full communion with Her. Furthermore, the Church Herself finds it more difficult to express in actual life Her full catholicity in all Her bearings

e) Religious Liberty Condemned.

Para. #42: The good of the State itself requires that the civil power not consider itself indifferent towards religion. It was established by God to help men acquire a truly human perfection; it must, therefore, not only provide its members the opportunity to procure temporal goods, both material and cultural, but must also assist them so that the spiritual goods for leading a religious life can more easily abound. Among those goods none is to be more highly regarded than to know and acknowledge God and to fulfil the duties owed to God, for these are the foundations of all private virtue, and indeed of all public virtue as well.

These duties toward God are not to be fulfilled only by individual citizens, but also by the civil power, which in its public acts represents the civil society. For God is the author of civil society and the source of all the goods which through it flow down to every member. Although, in the order willed by Christ, liturgical worship belongs only to God's Church, still the civil society must also worship God in some social way.

In the light of its nature, it will especially do this if by procuring the common good it faithfully observes the laws of God established by the divine Majesty for this economy of salvation. This demands above all that full freedom be granted to the Church and that whatever the Church judges to hinder the attainment of the eternal goal is excluded from legislation, governing, and public activity. The goal indeed should be to make it easier to live a life on Christian principles, one conducive to eternal life.  

Ironically, the very American theologian censured by the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office for his heretical teachings on Church and State, the Jesuit Fr. John Courtney Murray, was to  become the principle author of the heretical Vatican II declaration on religious liberty, Dignitatis Humanae. 

In 1954, the Holy Office solemnly condemned Murray's four principle errors:

  • the Catholic state is not the ideal
  • full religious liberty can be considered as a valid political ideal in a truly democratic state
  • it is sufficient for the state to guarantee the freedom of the Catholic Church by a general guarantee of religious liberty
  • the teaching of Pope Leo XIII on the obligations of States to God is not applicable to the democratic state.

Murray was ordered to submit his writings to the censors in Rome before publication. His Jesuit superiors ordered him to write no more on the topic of religious liberty, to which he acquiesced.

In 1957-1958, the Holy Office was preparing a document on religious freedom. A draft included a list of 21 errors, 14 of which were drawn from Murray’s writings. When Pope Pius XII died and Roncalli was "elected," the condemnations of error were ordered scrapped by His Wickedness, false "Pope" John XXIII. Here is what Dignitatis Humanae, para. #3 heretically teaches:

The religious acts whereby men, in private and in public and out of a sense of personal conviction, direct their lives to God transcend by their very nature the order of terrestrial and temporal affairs. Government therefore ought indeed to take account of the religious life of the citizenry and show it favor, since the function of government is to make provision for the common welfare. However, it would clearly transgress the limits set to its power, were it to presume to command or inhibit acts that are religious. 

 From the schema on the Dogmatic Constitution Defending Intact the Deposit of Faith (DDF)

a) The True Catholic Development of Doctrine is clearly Expounded and Defended.
Para. #31:The Sacred Council, therefore, acknowledges and professes that true development in understanding and presenting the doctrine of faith does take place in Christ's Church, in such a way that new definitions of revealed truth can even be made. But it declares legitimate only a development which consists simply in an increase in human knowledge about revelation, and not in the growth of the deposit itself. For the deposit remains in itself immutable, since any truth that may be proposed newly by the Church is contained therein at least implicitly and therefore is supported by divine authority.

Compare with the Modernist conception of development of doctrine contained in the Vatican II's declaration on Divine Revelation, Dei Verbum, para. #8:
The Tradition that comes from the apostles makes progress in the Church, with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realties and words that are being passed on. This comes about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts (cf. Lk. 2:19, 51). It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience. And it comes from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth. Thus, as the centuries go by, the Church is always advancing towards the plenitude of divine truth, until eventually the words of God are fulfilled in Her

The last sentence is telling: Thus, as the centuries go by, the Church is always advancing towards the plenitude of divine truth, until eventually the words of God are fulfilled in Her. The "plenitude of truth" is evidently the same thing as the "whole, complete truth" towards which the Holy Ghost leads. The "Spirit of God" leads to the "whole, complete truth" which the Church however does not yet possess; otherwise it would not have need of being led nor of tending there incessantly. This is to say that the Church does not yet fully possess Revelation and has not a true, perfect deposit of Faith. This is clearly heretical.

In 1907, Pope St. Pius X, CONDEMNED the following propositions of the Modernists in Lamentabili Sane:
21. Revelation, constituting the object of the Catholic faith, was not completed with the Apostles.

22. The dogmas the Church holds out as revealed are not truths which have fallen from heaven. They are an interpretation of religious facts which the human mind has acquired by laborious effort.

54. Dogmas, Sacraments and hierarchy, both their notion and reality, are only interpretations and evolutions of the Christian intelligence which have increased and perfected by an external series of additions the little germ latent in the Gospel.

58. Truth is no more immutable than man himself, since it evolved with him, in him, and through him.

59. Christ did not teach a determined body of doctrine applicable to all times and all men, but rather inaugurated a religious movement adapted or to be adapted to different times and places.

62. The chief articles of the Apostles’ Creed did not have the same sense for the Christians of the first ages as they have for the Christians of our time.

All of the above condemned propositions show the Modernist heresy of "development" whereby dogmas (and even the Church Herself) "evolve" over time into something completely different since truth is not immutable according to Modernism. Vatican II adopted this idea. 

b) The Rightful Place of Private Revelations.
Para. #32: With regard to private revelations which are claimed to have occurred after the death of the Apostles, the Holy Synod declares that they are to be subjected completely to the judgment of the Church's Pastors, lest the faithful be deceived, since Christ warned, "False prophets will arise and will deceive many" (Mt 24:11). It also declares that they are worthy of consideration only when they are in total agreement with the truths contained in the public treasury of faith and when they promote the living of the Christian life under the leadership of the Pastors. They cannot offer an opportunity to bring forth any ecclesiastical institutions unless they have a dogmatic foundation elsewhere. And, finally, it is never permitted because of them to introduce new doctrines or to begin new undertakings if the Church is unwilling. It further teaches that we neither must nor can give private revelations, even approved ones, the assent of Catholic faith but only the assent of human faith, according to the rules of prudence if these indicate that such revelations are probable and piously credible.

The Christian faithful should thus carefully restrain immoderate curiosity about wonders that are not sufficiently approved by the Church's Pastors. For there are people who pursue such things as if the very Deposit of faith were insufficient to nourish the Christian life or as if richer pastures lie before the sheep of Christ outside the Deposit. 

c) Occultism forcefully condemned. 
Para. #33: Such curiosity becomes truly pernicious when it moves believers to give themselves over to the superstition of divination of any form, but especially to that spiritualism that attempts by human effort to evoke sensible communication with spirits or with separated souls in order to attain various information or various helps. "There shall not be found among you anyone who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer.. For the Lord abominates all these things" (Dt 18:10-12). The Apostolic See has not neglected in various of its documents to oppose evil spiritualism with appropriate remedies.

Para. #34: In many regions superstition is creeping widely and is being spread more every day, sometimes also deceitfully under the false title of parapsychology, the discipline whose task it is to explain facts that appear to contradict the ordinary laws of psychology. The Sacred Council declares that the divine law prohibits as a very serious sin against religion both to want to call out the souls of the dead and to wish to establish perceptible communications with them or with any other spirits,
however it may be done, publicly or privately, even if the intention is to address only good spirits and the whole exhibition has the appearance of propriety, piety and religion. It forbids all Christians even out of mere curiosity to attend or to promote in any way spiritualist sessions or other meetings of this sort.

Para. #35: The Holy Synod does, however, exhort all the faithful to imitate the example of holy Mother Church by praying for the faithful departed that they may attain the vision of God and intercede with Him for us; it also exhorts them to commend themselves to the holy Angels who in God's fatherly providence guard the human race and are ready by direction, assistance, and enlightenment to help individuals not to succumb to their malicious enemies.


The approved theologians saw the ugly head of the occult slowly beginning to rise during the 1950s.

Had this condemnation emanated from a true Council, led by a true pope, I have no doubts in my mind that the occult revival and invasion after Vatican II--which made occult practices ubiquitous---would never had happened. 

d) Polygenism condemned. 
Para. #49: The sacred Synod, therefore, rejects the views of those who assert either that after Adam there have been here on earth true men who did not derive by natural generation from that one first parent or that Adam represents some multitude of first parents; such views contradict Catholic doctrine.

For it is not at all apparent how such views are compatible with the sources of revealed truth, and the acts of the Church's Magisterium present about original sin, which proceeds from the sin truly committed by the one Adam and which is transmitted to all by generation, and which is in each person as his own.

Here, the schema ratifies the condemnation of Pope Pius XII regarding polygenism in para. #37 of his encyclical Humani Generis:
When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own

From the schema on the Dogmatic Constitution on the Christian Moral Order (CMO)
a) Moral Relativism Condemned.
Para. #1: When the infinitely good and infinitely holy God revealed the mystery of his holiness and love in the work of creation and redemption, he at the same time showed men the way of love and holiness. For this reason, in accord with the Apostle's statement, "This is the will of God, your sanctification" (1 Th 4:3), the Second Vatican Council [this is a schema; this is what Vatican II was intended to profess, but did not] solemnly professes that there is an ordering [ordinatio] of the same infinitely good and infinitely holy God by which to measure the rightness and wrongness of human acts. This ordering of divine wisdom, which men share by knowledge, becomes the rule and norm of holiness for them so that, as Sacred Scripture teaches, they may be holy as God Himself is holy.

Observing this moral order with the help of God, without which no one can serve the divine will, man conforms his will to the will of God; and, sharing in the law of liberty (see Jas 1:25), he not only becomes a faithful servant of God, but also shares in that freedom of the children of God in virtue of which, freed from the slavery of sin,  he can tend towards his ultimate end, which in this economy of salvation is God himself, Father and Son and Holy Spirit, to be possessed in heaven by contemplation and by love. The moral order, therefore, is not a fiction of the human mind, but really exists, just as the will of God, infinitely wise, good, and holy, really exists.  

b) "Situation Ethics" condemned.
Para. #15: Finally, there are people who so make love the only criterion of morality and its single norm that they think the other virtues are not important. It is true that the love by which the just love God above all things and love the neighbor because of God is "greater" than faith, hope, and the other virtues (1 Cor 13:13); it does not, however, remove the need for both these kinds of virtues, but so nourishes and fosters them that we may come "to the extent of the full stature of Christ" (Eph 4:13).

The Holy Council therefore encourages that all the activities of the Christian faithful "be done in love" (1 Cor 16:14). But they should not therefore make the mistake of thinking that a man "acts in a Christian manner" only when love is the motive or that the other virtues are unimportant, as if God crowned only an explicit act of love. For acts ofthe just that proceed from another proper motive or impulse condignly merit the growth of grace and of glory, not however without that love.

Care should likewise be taken that simple people not misunderstand the statement, "Love and do what you wish," and mistakenly think that only one precept, namely Thou shalt love, has to be kept in the Christian life. For such a life is reduced to some uncertain feeling of love, completely neglecting the keeping of the commandments, in contradiction of the Lord himself, who said,
"If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Mt 19:17), and elsewhere---
"Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me" (Jn 14:21).

"Situation Ethics" is a system made popular by Episcopal "priest" turned atheist, Joseph Fletcher (d.1991). Fletcher wrote ten books and hundreds of articles, book reviews, and translations. Situation ethics essentially states that other moral principles can be cast aside in certain situations if love is best served. Fletcher supported abortion on demand, euthanasia, infanticide, contraception, pre-marital sex, and every form of sexual perversion. In his 1966 book, Situation Ethics, Fletcher wrote, Whether any form of sex is good or evil depends on whether love is fully served. (pg. 139). He also opined that ...only the end justifies the means. (pg. 120). Vatican II never mentions (let alone condemns) moral relativism or situation ethics. 

From the schema on the Dogmatic Constitution on Chastity, Marriage, the Family, and Virginity (CMVF)

(a) Transgenderism condemned.
Para. #4: It should be noted that God alone is the absolute lord of man's life and of its integrity, particularly with respect to what makes man naturally capable of and associates him with God in the propagation of human life.

Attempts to change one's sex, therefore, when this is sufficiently determined, are wicked; nor is it allowed, in order to save the health of the whole man, to mutilate his genital organs or to render them infertile, if there are other ways to provide for his health.

 Nor in any case is or can there be a right to transplant into the human body the sexual organs of animals which produce the germinative cells of their own genus, or vice-versa; nor also to try to unite the human germ cells of each sex in a laboratory, even if this is done without violating modesty and chastity and solely for the sake of scientific progress. 

This principle condemns transgenderism before it was even known by the general public. As to the experiments with gametes, the footnote in the schema had this to say:
Here the Constitution has in mind all those modern experiments being made to unite the vital human germ cells, even independently of an intention at artificial fertilization, but for other purposes. Many
are waiting for the Church clearly to say that these experiments are in every hypothesis illicit, even if civil legislatures until now, as far as we know, are doing nothing; indeed materialists may take the occasion publicly to ridicule divine principles in the newspapers.

b) So-called "free love" and false ideas about marriage condemned.
Para. #22: The Sacred Synod must severely condemn so-called "temporary" or "experimental" or "companionate" marriages. It also rejects as unworthy of a man and especially of a Christian those instructions by which through various skills a real hedonism in sacred and holy marriage is propagated.

It also rejects theories by which a violation of marital fidelity is considered allowed to spouses, either when the mutual love between the couple has failed or when the sexual impulse is falsely thought to be impossible to keep within the limits of monogamous marriage.

It is also mistaken to state that civil authority itself never has the power to punish adulterers, and indeed with an equal penalty for both men and women. It also rebukes those who say, and indeed under the pretext of benefitting the Church, that mixed marriages are generally and in themselves to be fostered rather than tolerated. That position is also mistaken which maintains that a marriage can be declared invalid or dissolved solely because of a failure of love.

Finally the Sacred Synod most severely condemns so-called "free love," by which, under a false pretext of constructing a new fraternity and society, sin is committed against the divine order and a lethal wound is inflicted not only on marriage but also on the family and society

Compare to the Vatican II sect having "marriage preparation" classes for "cohabitating couples." These fornicators, living in a persistent state of mortal sin, are not made to separate bed and board, confess, and stay chaste until marriage. 

c) Feminism Condemned.
Para. #26: It is mistaken, therefore, to deny the divine origin of the family and to subvert the order which God set within it or to remove it from the control and influence of the divine order and of the Church. And therefore this Sacred Synod, while it defends the rights of the woman, rejects that evil form of emancipation by which, whether as a daughter or a wife or a mother, her proper nature, function, and role are disfigured by some false view of her equality with the man.

Nor does it approve of that way of acting by which some people, indeed civil authority itself, moved by some false exaltation of freedom, either denies or belittles or, what is worse, practically destroys, to the detriment of the family's good, the natural and distinct qualities of man and woman.

d) Periodic Abstinence vindicated.
Para. #27: Today especially, a distinctive sign of truly Christian parents should be that generous way
of acting, one in accordance with the norms of Christian virtues, with which they think correctly about the number of their children and act accordingly. The Sacred Synod is not at all unaware of the many and great difficulties which spouses may encounter on this matter. It therefore teaches in general that by divine law, natural or positive, there is no universal norm with regard to the number of children to be had in each family. In each case should be considered what individual conditions, the good of the whole family and of society suggest, according to the dictates of Christian prudence, linked also with the other virtues. In their particular deliberations, the faithful should not be moved only by temporal and material considerations, but first of all by supernatural ones, and they should be led by the light of reason and of faith.

And, as befits Christians, in measuring the number of their children, they should be mindful of divine Providence by which all things are wisely ordered. In so serious a matter, the faithful should avoid irrational and blind instinct and the various forms of hedonism.

If they both agree and if they have a just cause, it is licit for the faithful to make use of marriage only on those days which are known to be infertile. But renouncing the use of marriage becomes illicit for them if, as the Apostle noted (see 1 Cor 7:5), it brings the spouses into a proximate danger of sin. Let the supreme rule be the Apostle's general advice: "Let all your acts be done with charity" (1 Cor 16:14). And therefore values and reasons that are merely medical, eugenic, economic, social or of some other temporal and material order, may not be opposed to, preferred to, or equated with the values and reasons of a higher order, the order of religion and morality. (Emphasis mine). 

Remember that the greatest approved theologians, noted for their orthodoxy, knew that periodic abstinence was permissible for just cause--as this schema demonstrates. This gives the lie to Fred and Bobby Dimond, wreaking havoc on married people's consciences that they must have, in all cases, the most children possible. It was a false pope that allowed this document to be destroyed! Can you imagine if this passed in a true Council with a true pope? It would be a world where Fred and Bobby would need to get real jobs suited to their dispositions and intellects (e.g., asking customers, "Would you like fries with that?").

From the schema on the Dogmatic Constitution on the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, and Mother of Men (BVM)
a) The Blessed Virgin Mary is Co-Redmeptrix of the Human Race.
Para. #2: The Word of the eternal Father willed to receive his human nature from a woman so that as
death came from a woman so also life would arise for us from a woman and thus liberation would be accomplished by both sexes

He did not accomplish this, however, until the designated Mother, redeemed in a more sublime way by the foreseen merits of Christ, had given her free acceptance (see Lk 1:38) so that by the incarnation the Son of God would become her Son also and the new Adam and Savior of the world. By this consent Mary, the daughter of Adam, not only became the Mother of Jesus, the one divine Mediator and Redeemer, but with him and under him also joined her work in accomplishing the redemption of the human race. This salvific consent of the Mother of God and thus her participation in the work of redemption lasted from the time of the virginal conception of Jesus Christ until his death; it especially shone forth when, not without the divine plan, she stood by the cross (cf. Jn 19:25), when she powerfully shared her only Son’s, with him and through him with all her heart offered him as the price of our redemption, and when she was given to men as their Mother by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross (see Jn 19:26-27). Because, however, the mystery of human redemption was not completed until the Holy Ghost Christ had promised came on the day of Pentecost, we contemplate Mary in the Cenacle with the Apostles persevering in prayer (see Acts 1:14) imploring by her prayers too the outpouring of the Spirit.

b) The Blessed Virgin Mary is Mediatrix of All Grace.
Para. #3: This humble "handmaid of the Lord," for whom "he who is mighty has done great things" (see Lk 1:49), is called the Mediatrix of all graces because she was associated with Christ in acquiring these graces, and she is invoked by the Church as our advocate and Mother of Mercy, because even now she remains the associate of the glorious Christ in heaven and intercedes for all through Christ so that in the conferral of all graces to men there is present the maternal charity of the Blessed Virgin. But in no way is the mediation of our only Mediator--according to the absolute sense of the words of the Apostle (1 Tm 2:5): "There is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus"--obscured or diminished; indeed this mediation of Christ is extolled and honored. For it is in Christ that Mary is Mediatrix, and her mediation comes, not from any necessity, but from the divine pleasure and from the superabundance and virtue of the merits of Jesus; it rests on the mediation of Christ, entirely depends on it, and obtains its entire force from it.

This was the hardest schema for the Modernists to relegate to the trash bin. Devotion to Mary and her privileges was "in the DNA," so to speak, of lay Catholics and Catholic clergymen. The Modernists went to work quickly to stop it. Led by arch-Modernist Cardinal Frings, his henchman peritus (theological expert), Fr. Ratzinger (later false pope Benedict XVI), and the wicked theologian Fr. Karl Rahner, the Modernists made the plea that keeping this schema would "alienate the Protestants" and impede the "ecumenical movement" as it would be "hard for the Protestants to understand." Cardinal Spellman of New York, was fighting alongside the Traditionalists at that point, and submitted a written intervention composed with the help of Fr. DePauw.

Cardinal Spellman's intervention asked in disbelief how they could not define important Marian doctrines “because they would be rather difficult for Protestants to understand.” The Cardinal was opposed to this sort of reasoning, he said, because “the task of the Ecumenical Council is to teach the members of the Church, rather than those outside of it.” In the closest vote of the Robber Council, the Marian schema was discarded by a vote of 1,114 Council Fathers in favor of scrapping it, and 1,097 Council Fathers wanting to retain it. The Modernists won by 17 votes. 

Conclusion
Had Roncalli not usurped the throne of St. Peter as false pope John XXIII, the above is what Vatican II (if it were called at all) could have been. The world we would be living in would be so different; in the best way imaginable. The Church, far from being underground, would be in all Her glory. Let us always remember what was taken from us, and resolve all the more to hold on to the One True Faith, True Mass, and true sacraments. 

The words of John Greenleaf Whittier come to mind: For all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these, “It might have been.”

57 comments:

  1. Great writing Introibo. Thank you so much for all you do for us.

    God bless

    David

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    Replies
    1. David,
      Thank you, my friend! I've said it before, but it is so true; comments like yours keep me writing. Many times amid the responsibilities of work, family, etc. I think "Why am I spending precious time doing this blog?" Then I read your comment and remember why I continue.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. You must keep this blog alive, it is so important in helping us understand the true Faith in these troubled times. I come from the Novus Ordo and I learn a lot coming here and always look forward to reading you ! And you have Lee and Joanna as guest hosts who always have relevant topics.

      Delete
    3. Simon,
      Thank you, my friend! Lee and Joanna are gifts from God.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  2. Very interesting ! Indeed, things would be different if all these documents had been promulgated rather than the modernist garbage approved by Montini and binding on those who recognize him as the true Pope (sorry, R&R people !). If those original documents had been promulgated, we wouldn't have had the interreligious congresses of Assisi, the fake popes praying with infidels and heretics and all the rest. Hopefully, when the Church is restored, God willing, a true Pope will convene a Council and proclaim the true Catholic faith.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Simon,
      Wouldn't a real Council under a restored papacy be a dream come true? Let's keep praying. I never thought I would see an end to the murderous abortion decision Roe v. Wade in my lifetime, but it happened!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. That's true, I hadn't thought of that. All things are in God's hands, so let's keep hoping !

      Delete
  3. Interesting to read the schemas of what could have been. I have to correct you on one thing though: Joseph Komonchak was ordained in 1963 it seems so he would be a valid priest. Other than that, not too bad!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon10:37
      Thank you for correcting me. I thought that he was ordained after 1968, but I guess I was wrong. In 1963, he would be a true priest, who unfortunately is under the Vatican II sect. I have updated my post to call him by his proper title of "Fr." and placed the date of ordination next to his name.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  4. Was there anything about abortion in these original documents ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Reginald-Marie,
      In those six schemata there was no mention of abortion. I wouldn't really expect such. When these drafts were composed (1959-1962), abortion was still illegal and considered murder in most of the world. It didn't become an incredible world-wide horror until the late 1960s.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    2. A future Council must firmly condemn abortion and gender ideology. Society as a whole is infested with this plague!

      Delete
    3. Reginald-Marie,
      Yes. If the papacy is restored, there will be much to combat and condemn--abortion and gender ideology among those evils.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  5. What a beautiful and most inspiring teachings! Thank you dear Introibo for the time you spent helping us and spreading the good doctrines of Christ

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon3:16
      Thank you so much for your kind words, my friend!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  6. Introibo

    Off the topic.I find it very disappointing that a bookshop like PCP books don't take copies of some of those very rare titles they sell of one copy.These would be very helpful in this time and also for myself who has been accepted into a traditional seminary.I am sure they would sell many worldwide.God bless

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon6:45
      I'll be praying for your vocation! Congratulations on your acceptance! Perhaps call PCP and make your recommendation to them. Who knows, they may agree with you.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  7. Cardinal Ottaviani, not Siri, may have been the favorite to be elected pope in 1958, but we have Siri's own words indicating that even the liberal/Modernist French & German cardinals, among whom there were surely Masonic infiltrators, voted for him, according to a secret diabolical plan, in what appears to have been a unanimous or near unanimous election. I'm sure Siri was warned by Pius XII about the Judeo-Masonic plan to overthrow a rightfully elected pope, which is why he says he at first declined, but apparently felt obliged to accept when it became unanimous. Hence the 5 minutes of white smoke on Oct. 26, 1958.

    Only popes can speak about what takes place in a conclave, & Siri does: "During the first two conclaves in which I participated, my candidature was presented by an influential cardinal. He himself told me that all the French were behind him. The others, then, followed the French. The Germans held back, but gradually, along the way, joined the rest."
    https://tv.gab.com/watch?v=63b4d978cf57917328a04a2b

    The plan was to elect him, then threaten him into invalid abdication, making him the prophesied "pope in exile," & paving the way for the series of 6 antipopes, a false council, and invalid Mass & Holy Orders, the latter explained at https://novusordowatch.org/2018/06/unholy-orders-50-years-invalid-ordinations

    & the overthrow of the Siri/Gregory XVII papacy at https://novusordowatch.org/2016/10/smoke-signals-white-smoke-1958/ & at https://whitesmoke1958.com

    The pseudo-traditionalist & double agent Malachi Martin was even involved in the evil plan: https://tv.gab.com/watch?v=63c2346e36de6dbc4f422252

    Much more can be said, e.g. about the nature of the threat against Siri (in the article "Grave Reasons of State") & the fact that a heretic cannot be elected pope nor can a true pope become a heretic (at Novus Ordo Watch), & other related matters.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Darrell,
      There are many theories as to what happened in 1958. Personally, I don't subscribe to the so-called Siri Theory.

      My reasons can be found in the following post:
      https://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2015/02/one-question-siri-cant-answer.html

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  8. Hello Introibo:

    Have you ever been a server at the traditional Mass? Your screen name is part of the words of the traditional Mass.

    Thank you. Anonymous

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    Replies
    1. @anon2:53
      Unfortunately, no. I had too many chores as a teenager to spend the necessary training time at the Chapel. After high school, with college full time and working 39 hours a week, I still couldn't manage it.

      I chose my "screen title" from the True Mass as a reminder of (a) what was taken from us and (b) how we should orient our lives--towards the altar of God.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  9. Dear Introibo.

    Thank you for website and fine writings.

    Have you done anything on the subject of rap "music" ?Do you believe it is satanic and leading many of our young people to hell.I know many at work who listen to it all the time and use the vulgar terms,etc.One gal is always saying things like I should commit suicide and how life is stupid.I try to avoid her if possible but not always because we have to have our lunch and dinner breaks in the staffroom.

    Do you know much about any of these rap singers.

    Thank you

    Marie

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    Replies
    1. Marie,
      I'm appalled at the sorry excuse for a person you work with telling you to commit suicide!! Please report her to Human Resources. That is verbal harassment, and she should be fired.

      Yes, rap music is Satanic. Please read my post below on the evil rapper "Eminem:"
      https://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2017/11/singing-for-satan-part-4.html

      Please don't put up with any more abuse and bullying. You deserve to be treated with proper respect. I'll be praying for you.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. Introibo

      Sorry for the mistake but my co worker is saying to herself that she,not me should commit suicide.

      I now understand that listening to that rap garbage will fill one's head with negative thoughts.

      Have you Introibo known any co workers to be taking drugs?How did you know they were on them.What body signs did they give ?

      Marie

      Delete
    3. Marie,

      I knew one colleague who was an alcoholic, and another who was hooked on cocaine. The alcoholic is a "functional alcoholic," but the coke-head was fired, and ultimately disbarred. Thankfully, there are not many drug addicts in law (at least that I have known).

      I grew up in a very poor neighborhood here in NYC. Drug addicts and alcoholics were pervasive. It was disproportionately high. Therefore, I (unfortunately) know more about such addicts than I want to know.

      Here is an excellent (and very accurate, IMO) list of signs in "USA Today:"

      1. Falling asleep at work, or constantly appearing to be very tired

      2.Suddenly making frequent mistakes

      3. Frequent trips to the bathroom or break room

      4. Extreme mood swings

      5. Theft or disappearance of valuable pieces of company property

      6. Missed appointments or deadlines

      7. Difficulty concentrating or recalling details, inability to follow instructions or unusual amount of time needed to complete routine tasks

      8. Changes in hygiene

      (See usatoday.com/story/money/2019/03/29/addiction-work-8-signs-co-worker-struggles-drugs-alcohol/3244622002/)

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  10. Off topic. I saw the movie Nefarius and all can say is wow, what a movie. It puts the fear of God in a reasonable person. Hopefully it's a start for non-believers.

    Lee

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    Replies
    1. Lee,
      Glad you saw it! It was quite amazing. Hopefully, some will wake up to the spiritual warfare taking place all around us.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  11. Does anyone know Fr. Anselm Ettelt? He's an SSPX priest ordained in 1988.
    Thank you for any and all information.

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    Replies
    1. Joanna S.,

      I'm not done with this article, but I'm just reading some comments.

      Thank you for your recent post on Fr. Wiktor. What a story! Very interesting, as were your comments on Ukraine. Thanks for the warning on the Padre Pio biopic. Do you have any favorite Catholic movies? God Bless Fr. Wiktor, and you for your contributions.

      Hope you get info on Fr. Ettelt.

      -Seeking Truth

      Delete
    2. Seeking Truth,

      thank you very much for your kind words!

      My all-time favorite Catholic movie is "The Reluctant Saint" (1962) starring Maximilian Schell as St. Joseph of Cupertino. This picture is guaranteed to lift anyone's spirits!

      I know it's hard to imagine but I've never watched Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" in its entirety but I plan to do so soon. This is the last movie my late Father watched while he was already diagnosed with cancer and before his health deteriorated so he couldn't communicate with us any longer. I often think it must've made a profound impact on him. I'm sure there'll be tears running down my face when I finally watch it.

      There's also a very beautiful Italian movie about the life of Pope St. Pius X (1951) - that's the only movie ever made about the Pontiff (with subtitles in English):
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGD6sD0Fpgw

      As for secular movies, I've always loved "A Bridge Too Far" (1977), ever since I was a child. This segment with Robert Redford playing Major Julian Cook, praying the Hail Mary while crossing the Waal River with no smoke screen and under heavy German fire is probaly the most Catholic scene in a war movie ever (plus a true story!):
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-icdOTvcSIo

      God Bless You,
      Joanna S.

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    3. Thank you, Joanna. I just shared the Pius X video on Twitter.

      "The Reluctant Saint" can be seen at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s3fm16lk9Y (no ads, unlike the other upload with many views)

      I think "The Exorcist," especially the 2000 Director's Cut (longer & with a more Catholic ending) is a very important movie, despite its very offensive obscenities & disturbing scenes. It also shows the spiritual vacuum produced by the Vatican II counterfeit church. Fear often leads people to conversion.

      Delete
    4. Joanna,
      Thank you for the movie recommendations!

      Darrell,
      "Nefarious" vitiates any need for "The Exorcist"!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    5. I will definitely have to watch it, then. Thanks for the tip.

      Delete
    6. Can "Nefarious" be watched for free anywhere?

      Delete
    7. Darrell,
      "Nefarious" can be streamed but, to the best of my knowledge and belief, not for free at this time. See my movie review of that film at the bottom of my post under "Special Addendum:"
      https://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2023/06/diabolical-influence-around-authentic.html

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    8. Joanna S.,

      Thank you for the movie recommendations! I have seen both the Reluctant Saint and Mel Gibson's the Passion. I think you will really enjoy seeing that one. I've seen it several times. Introibo and others will agree it was very good.

      I wish we made a Nefarious viewing happen in the theater... we haven't been to the theater in so long, I just didn't follow when exactly it came out or think about its limited viewing time. Hopefully our woke library system will get it in a month or so, otherwise we'll find another way to watch it. We have Quo Vadis currently in our library pile, and recently finished Monsieur Vincent (1947) about St. Vincent De Paul, which was decent I think. Particular relevant in our day in age as he was dealing with the plague! We also watched The Bells of St. Mary's (1945) with Bing Crosby and Ingrid Bergman.

      We do enjoy reading, but it has been nice watching a Catholic movie without all the junk most current movies have. If anyone else can recommend some good Catholic "oldies", please do.

      -S.T.

      Delete
    9. "Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima" (1952); Academy Award Nominee for musical score; much better than the new Vatican II & Sr Lucia Impostor-inspired/distorted one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy2i85R7T9M

      Delete
    10. Darrell,
      Thank you! The new one was disappointing. I believe I have only watched the series with Ricardo Montalban.
      -S.T.

      Delete
    11. “Come to the Stable”was a good movie I believe. From 1949 starring Loretta Young and Celeste Holm. Also “The Scarlet and The Black” starring Gregory Peck and Christopher Plummer from 1983. Also as far as movie scenes go, in “Saving Private Ryan” you see and hear a catholic priest praying the “Pater Noster” over a critically wounded soldier in the opening beach scene. If you can stomach watching the beginning of that movie.

      Delete
    12. Thank you!
      -S.T.

      Delete
  12. Introibo,

    Thank you for putting this together. A difference of 17 votes was able to scrap the Marian schema... I suppose this underscores how many were on board with the spirit of V-II. Two different religions.

    God Bless,
    -S.T.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Seeking Truth,
      Two VERY different religions, indeed!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. S.T.,

      I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but assuming one could only vote in favor of or against the schema (and not withhold a vote), then in reality it was a mere difference of 9 votes, since if 9 of the modernists had switched to the other side, they would have lost 9 and we would have gained 9 (again, this hinges on my aforementioned assumption). How sad!

      Great post Introibo, thank you.


      God bless,
      Dapouf

      Delete
    3. Well, 9 voters changing their votes would have effected an 18 vote gap or difference (if no votes withheld). So, yes, it would have taken only 9 more voters in favor, but there was still a 17 vote difference.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous,

      Yes, you are technically correct, if we're speaking of mathematical difference. However, in S.T.'s post, it's not clear that he means mathematical difference. The context seems to suggest that "if 17 people switched over, the schema wouldn't have been rejected". Nevertheless, in my sense, "a mere difference of 9 votes" refers to 9 votes (*being cast by 9 people*) would have been the difference (not in the mathematical sense) that resulted on a different outcome. :)

      It was mainly to point out the fact that some may think that the decision of 17 modernists resulted in the schema's rejection, so I was just putting into perspective that, in reality, it was 9.


      God bless,
      Dapouf

      Delete
    5. Since Vatican II was convened by an antipope & closed by another, it was a false council & any discussion about votes is moot & irrelevant.

      Delete
  13. Greetings. I would also like to raise something, although I understand that my comment is not well received and is not published. I am not a believer and I don't know much about these issues, but many times I have asked myself this: what would happen to a sedevacantist if a historical document was found that showed that a pope from centuries ago fell into heresy during his pontificate? Would there be a vacant seat from that year?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      Most of us (to my knowledge) do not believe that such a scenario is possible (for various reasons). Nevertheless, most of us would probably hold the opinion of St. Robert Bellarmine if such a *thought experiment* were to, in actuality, occur. If you'd like to read about this and the reasoning to arrive at it, I recommend you take the time to check out the following from St. Bellarmine:

      1. https://novusordowatch.org/de-romano-pontifice-book4-chapters6-7/ (Whether a Pope can fall into Heresy as a Private Person?)

      2. https://novusordowatch.org/de-romano-pontifice-book2-chapter30/ (Whether a Heretical Pope Can Be Deposed?)

      To be clear, in the second link, St. Bellarmine expounds on the varying opinions for such a scenario, and he himself holds to the fifth opinion (as would I).

      Tl;dr "a Pope who is a manifest heretic, ceases in himself to be Pope and head, just as he ceases in himself to be a Christian and member of the body of the Church: whereby, he can be judged and punished by the Church." So the answer to your question is "yes". :)



      May God bless you and guide your understanding,
      Dapouf

      P.S. for further reading, the following might interest you as well: https://novusordowatch.org/2015/04/heretical-popes-first-vatican-council/ (The Question of a Heretical Pope considered by the First Vatican Council). This is more on the point that the thought experiment you proposed will never come to pass, since this fact has been settled already.

      Delete
    2. Another good article on the subject is novusordowatch.org/2022/04/felix-cappello-heretical-pope-impossible

      To Anonymous: Can you state why you are not a believer? Most of the time there are moral impediments to belief in Christ & His Church. Read one or more of the Gospels. Both Jesus, & His apostles began their preaching with the words "Repent & believe in the gospel" (i.e. the "Good News" of salvation thru the forgiveness of sin).

      Delete
    3. @anon5:25
      I have nothing to add to what Darrell and Dapouf wrote. Good explanation from Dapouf!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    4. Thanks for your answers, I thought this comment would be considered offensive. I was part of what you call the "Novus Ordo Church", but I moved away due to successive scandals and the progressive loss of Faith in it. Currently I define myself as a "non-believer", but I am quite confused because, to be honest, I don't know who is right. You are convinced that you are Catholic, but so are those who are part of the "official Church", so I don't know what to think. I read articles like this one and I get even more puzzled:

      https://mundabor.wordpress.com/2023/07/20/betrayal-of-christ/

      Thanks for helping and responding kindly.

      Delete
    5. I'm not surprised you are more puzzled after reading that. He apparently thinks Francis (& I would add John XXIII thru Benedict) is a great sinner but is not a manifest heretic & has not betrayed Catholic faith & tradition. I left this comment:

      "...this See of Saint Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: ‘I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail....’ (Lk 22:32).” - Vatican I, Pastor Aeternus, 6 See my links.

      The Fathers of the First Vatican Council concluded after extensive research, investigation, and debate that no Pope had ever been a heretic: novusordowatch.org/2015/04/heretical-popes-first-vatican-council (Never happened, never will)
      novusordowatch.org/2022/04/felix-cappello-heretical-pope-impossible

      It's not just when proclaiming a doctrine ex cathedra that popes are prevented from teaching or promoting anything injurious to faith, morals, or perfect divine worship, or even from imposing anything new. Vatican II ecumenism and promotion of religious liberty (as opposed to just tolerance of error) are pernicious novelties. Catholics, Jews, and Muslims don't all believe in and worship the same God, as the V2 church teaches. Jesus said, "He who rejects me, rejects him who sent me." Then there's the newly created Mass, with the TLM scandalously called "Extraordinary Form." I could go on. We are in the long prophesied time of the Great Apostasy and what Our Lady of La Salette foretold as the "eclipse" of the Church.

      How could this unprecedented Vatican II revolution take place if a heretic can never be elected pope & a pope can never become a heretic? A growing number of traditional Catholics are coming to see the cause in the vitiated 1958 papal conclave.
      https://novusordowatch.org/2016/10/smoke-signals-white-smoke-1958
      https://whitesmoke1958.com (including interviews 1-3)

      Delete
    6. Anon @9:00,

      I used to read Mundabor years ago and I thought him quite interesting.
      He puts a lot of passion in his writing and is persuasive. There's nothing wrong with that, at all, but the thing is he is (still, I believe) in the "R&R" camp, and I came to realize there is more emotion than factual analysis in his columns.

      Intro, here, has some of the best insights on Catholic issues you'll find around.
      And Novus Ordo Watch is a great primer for "Newbies", which almost all of us here were, once.
      Both are well-researched and straightforward.
      (I hope Intro will forgive me for plugging it - LOL - but If you go to the NOW blog and hit the "Start Here" button, you will begin to find a great deal of confusion cleared up.)

      God bless you on your Faith journey and please stay in touch!

      -Jannie

      Delete
    7. Janine,
      Right on! NOW is the greatest Traditionalist website out there. Everyone should take advantage of it! I make my contribution as best I can with one post per week--thanks for the kind words, Jannie!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  14. Anonymous @9:00 AM,

    I understand your confusion; there are certainly many differing viewpoints out there, and it's easy to feel lost in it all. Certainly, I could direct you to plenty of resources and articles, but what I must suggest to you, first and foremost, is prayer. Prayer is single-handedly the most powerful weapon you will have at your disposal in your discernment of the mess we're currently in. I implore you to pray for proper discernment of the truth; God will not fail to listen to a sincere and humble heart.

    Now with that said, it seems like you have some idea of the varying positions responding to today’s disaster, this blog's being termed sedevacantism (though I encourage you, like the others, to visit Novus Ordo Watch’s “start here” page: https://novusordowatch.org/start-here/ for a clearer picture). So, in the case of the article you shared, if you don’t mind, could you expound on what exactly puzzles you?

    Many articles that are the source of confusion tend to use fiery language and make grandiose claims, but you will quickly find, after proper analysis, that all too many of these claims are unsubstantiated, which is the ultimate death knell in any argument they might try to put forth. One of the main reasons you’ll find that all of us here love Novus Ordo Watch (among other traditionalist blogs, including this one) is precisely that *they cite (and, as often as possible, link to) sources*, and encourage the readers to verify claims for themselves. I’m still not sure exactly what about the Mundabor post puzzles you, but if interested, here’s a post I quickly found on N.O.W. regarding Mundabor: https://novusordowatch.org/2015/11/mundabor-pitfalls-false-logic-papacy/.

    If you simply sift out the articles and bloggers that don’t have Catholic teaching and sources as the foundation for their arguments and positions or regard as “obvious” any fundamental claims that are points of dispute in the first place, you will quickly find the dense fog of uncertainty and confusion clearing up.

    These are indeed trying times for all of us, and I hope that you won’t allow it to shake your belief in God. I stand by my initial remark, that if you are sincere and persevere in prayer, God will not fail to guide you to where you need to be.

    If you would like to understand the sedevacantist position in greater detail, as well as the arguments for it (without the danger of misrepresentation), but are unsure where to start, let me know and I would be more than happy to organize a series of related links for you.

    God bless,
    Dapouf

    ReplyDelete
  15. A post on Novus Ordo Watch about these documents:

    https://novusordowatch.org/2017/10/council-could-have-been-original-vatican2-drafts/

    Indeed, when we compare with the documents adopted at Vatican II, there is a clear difference! It's a new religion, totally different from Catholicism.

    ReplyDelete
  16. The forgotten schemas just might be the greatest indictment of Vatican II. This blog is a treasure trove.

    ReplyDelete