Monday, January 3, 2022

When Strangers Come Knocking---Part 29

 

This is the next installment of my series to be published the first Monday of each month.

There are members of false sects, like Jehovah's Witnesses, that come knocking door-to-door hoping to convert you. Instead of ignoring them, it is we who should try and convert them. In 1 Peter 3:16, our first Pope writes, "But in thy hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks thee to give the reason for the hope that thou hast. But do this with gentleness and respect,..." Before the Great Apostasy, the Church would send missionaries to the ends of the Earth to make as many converts as possible. 

Those in false religions don't always come (literally) knocking at your door. It may be a Hindu at work who wants you to try yoga. It could be a "Christian Scientist" who lives next door and invites you to come to their reading room. Each month, I will present a false sect. Unlike the Vatican II sect, I do not see them as a "means of salvation" or possessing "elements of truth" that lead to salvation. That is heresy. They lead to damnation, and the adherents of the various sects must be converted so they may be saved.

In each month's post, I will present one false sect and give an overview of: 

  • The sect's history
  • Their theology
  • Tips on how to share the True Faith with them

Protestantism

Note to my readers: This will be a two part post. The follow-up will be next month. This series of posts, "When Strangers Come Knocking"(WSCK) gets the fewest number of readers per month on a consistent basis. I would like for you to comment and let me know (a) if you like the series or not (please state a reason) and (b) if you think it's worthwhile to continue with this series of posts. If a majority feel that my time would be better off spent on other subjects, I will soon end this series. Thank you all!---Introibo

[This post is complied from a multitude of sources. I take no credit. Of special note are several articles from American Ecclesiastical Review, one specifically referenced below, and theologian Rooney, Preface to the Bible, (1949]---Introibo). 

Protestantism is not a monolithic sect. Rather it is a multiplicity of sects originating in the 16th century with the so-called "Reformation" begun by apostate priest Martin Luther. Others who played a big role include King Henry VIII of England, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli. To attempt a history would take many posts. All Protestants have two (false) doctrines in common: (1) sola scripture (the Bible as the sole rule of Faith), and (2) sola fide (justification by faith alone). The best way to convert any Protestant is to show the flaws in these two doctrines. This post will tackle sola scriptura, and next month sola fide

The Meaning of Sola Scriptura

The Protestant understanding of sola scriptura means that the Bible alone is the infallible rule of faith for the Christians. All that must be believed and is necessary to salvation is in Scripture alone, and there is no Sacred Tradition as a source of Revelation. The teaching of the One True Church is that there are Two Sources of Divine Revelation, the Bible and Sacred Tradition. 

Sola Scriptura is wrong on at least four counts: (a) it is self-refuting since the Bible itself doesn't teach sola scriptura, (b) the "traditions of men" condemned in Scripture is not the sacred Tradition with a capital "T," (c) it goes contrary to history, and (d) the Magisterium is clearly referenced in Holy Scripture.

1. Sola Scriptura is self-refuting. 

The Protestant Westminster Confession of Faith states:

The whole purpose of God about everything pertaining to his own glory and to man’s salvation, faith, and life is either explicitly stated in the Bible or may be deduced as inevitably and logically following from it…The infallible standard for the interpretation of the Bible is the Bible itself. And so any question about the true and complete sense of a passage in the Bible…can be answered by referring to other passages which speak more plainly. (See epc.org/wp-content/uploads/Files/1-Who-We-Are/B-About-The-EPC/WCF-ModernEnglish.pdf). 

Does the Bible teach this principle?  2 Timothy 3:16-17, a common proof text for Sola Scriptura:

All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

It is not stated anywhere that Scripture alone is the infallible source of Christian doctrine. Also note that St. Paul is speaking about the Old Testament, because the New Testament had yet to be completed. How do you know what books are in the Bible? Only an extrinsic source can tell you the Canon of Scripture, as Scripture itself is silent on the issue. Let's look at another favorite verse of Protestants from the Book of the Apocalypse (or "Revelation" as they call it):

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Apoc. 22:18-19). 

Stating  that you cannot add or take away from a text is not equivalent to saying the Scriptures alone are the infallible rule of faith. It does not state there is nothing else in Divine Revelation to which we must listen. Some Protestants attempt to sidestep this problem. Here is what one such Protestant apologist had to say--and note well he thinks the Vatican II sect is the Catholic Church:

...sola scriptura does not mean that the Bible is our only authority when it comes to what we believe and do as Christians – but it is our highest authority, the authority by which every other authority is to be judged...we should believe in sola scriptura is because we don’t believe that any other source of authority is inspired by God and is completely trustworthy for what we should believe and do as Christians. As Protestants we don’t believe that the Pope is infallible, even when he speaks ex cathedra. (As a side note, Luther’s opponents in the sixteenth century clearly had a higher view of papal infallibility than the Catechism of the Catholic Church does today and certainly more than Roman Catholic apologists do today. I wonder if this is because, from our perspective today, it is all too clear that popes can and do make serious theological mistakes).  (See https://markfrancois.wordpress.com/2017/11/04/no-sola-scriptura-is-not-found-in-the-bible-but-that-was-never-the-point; Emphasis mine). Notice how the disdain for papal authority is evidenced in what he has to say regarding "Catholic" apologists. Some Protestants now say the Bible is the highest authority; this is what sola scriptura really means. If so, we will see what the highest authority commands next.

2. The Bible Commands we follow Sacred Tradition.

The Bible condemns the traditions of men :

St. Matthew 15:3,  He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

St. Matthew 15:6, So, for the sake of your tradition, you make void the word of God.

St. Matthew 15:9, in vain do they worship me, teaching human precepts as doctrines

Galatians 1:9-12, As we have said before, so now I repeat, if anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that one be accursed! Am I now seeking human approval, or God’s approval? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still pleasing people, I would not be a servant of Christ. For I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel that was proclaimed by me is not of human origin; for I did not receive it from a human source, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

The Bible commands Apostolic [Sacred] tradition to be followed:

2 Thessalonians 2:15, So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

2 Thessalonians 3:6, Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.

1 Corinthians 11:2, I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.

2 Peter 2:21, For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment that was passed on to them.

Therefore, if the Bible commands the Sacred Traditions are to be kept, they must be of equal value as the Scriptures because both must be maintained and followed. 

3. Sola Scriptura runs counter to Church history.

Protestants defending sola scriptura will claim that Jesus and St. Paul accepted the authority of the Old Testament. This is true, but they also appealed to other authority outside of written revelation. For example:

  • The reference to "He shall be called a Nazarene" cannot be found in the Old Testament, yet it was "spoken by the prophets" (St. Matthew 2:23). Therefore, this prophecy, which is considered to be "God's word," was passed down orally rather than through Scripture.
  •  In St. Matthew 23:2-3, Jesus teaches that the scribes and Pharisees have a legitimate, binding authority based "on Moses' seat," but this phrase or idea cannot be found anywhere in the Old Testament. It is found in the (originally oral) Mishnah, which teaches a sort of "teaching succession" from Moses on down.
  •  In 1 Corinthians 10:4, St. Paul refers to a rock that "followed" the Jews through the Sinai wilderness. The Old Testament says nothing about such miraculous movement. However, rabbinic tradition does.
  •  "As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses" (2 Timothy 3:8). These two men cannot be found in the related Old Testament passage ( Exodus 7:8) or anywhere else in the Old Testament.
The Bible records the history of the nascent Church accepting Sacred Tradition. In the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:6-30), we see Sts.Peter and James speaking with authority. This Council makes an authoritative pronouncement (citing the Holy Ghost) that was binding on all Christians. In the next chapter, we read that St. Paul, St. Timothy, and Silas were traveling around "through the cities," and Scripture says that "they delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem" (Acts 16:4). 

4. The Magisterium is clearly referenced in Sacred Scripture. 

And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ (Ephesians 4:11-15)

If 2 Timothy 3 proves the sole sufficiency of Scripture, then, by analogy, Ephesians 4 would likewise prove the sufficiency of pastors and teachers for the attainment of Christian perfection. So if all non-scriptural elements are excluded in 2 Timothy, then, by analogy, Scripture would logically have to be excluded in Ephesians. It is far more reasonable to recognize that the absence of one or more elements in one passage does not mean that they are nonexistent. The Church is necessary to interpret and apply Scripture. Both Scripture and Tradition are the Two Sources of Revelation. 

The Theologians on Sacred Tradition

[Complied from theologian Francis Connell, Are All Revealed Truth in Sacred Scripture? American Ecclesiastical Review, May 1962, pgs. 303-314].  

St. Robert Bellarmine, S.J., (1542-1621) wrote: "It is necessary to know that there are some books that are truly divine, and this certainly cannot be had from Scriptures… Hence, this so necessary a dogma, that there is divine Scripture, cannot sufficiently be had from Scripture alone. Accordingly, since faith is based on the word of God, we shall have no faith unless we have the unwritten word of God."

Suarez, S.J., (1548-1617) asserted: "According to the true and Catholic faith it cannot be denied that besides Scripture there is in the Church of Christ the word of God, not written in canonical books, which must be accepted with the same faith as the written word."

Gonet, O.P., (1616-81) declared: "I say that besides Scripture there are unwritten traditions pertaining to the rule of faith… There are three types of traditions. Some are immediately from Christ, and these are divine; some from the apostles with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, and these are apostolic; some which begin with the prelates of the people, and which obtained the force of law by use and custom, and these are ecclesiastical. The first two have the same force and certitude as the written word of God because they are based on the same authority as the written word. "

Witasse (1660-1716), writing in question-answer form, has the following: "Q. What is tradition? A. It is the word of God not written by the sacred authors. Q. Does this word enjoy the same authority as the written word of God? A. It would be foolish to think otherwise, for the word of God does not draw its authority from writing, but on the contrary, writing derives its authority from the word of God." As an example of unwritten tradition he gives the canon of Sacred Scripture "which is known to us only from Tradition. Scripture does not manifest it."

C. Billuart, O.P., (1685-1757) lays down the principle that "in addition (praeter) to Sacred Scripture divine tradition must necessarily be admitted" and then adds as an example: "Whence do the heretics know that Sacred Scripture, which they commend so highly, is sacred and divine? Not from Scripture itself… It is only from tradition that we know that this and no other scripture is sacred and divine."

St. Alphonsus Liguori, C.SS.R., (1696-1787) wrote: "Traditions are those truths which were first communicated by Jesus Christ or by the Holy Ghost to the apostles, then by the apostles were given to the disciples, and thus under the guidance of the Holy Ghost without interruption were, so to say, transmitted by hand and communicated up to the present time. These traditions, which are the unwritten word of God, have the same authority as the written word of God . . . Traditions are necessary that belief may be given to many articles of faith . . . about which nothing at all exists in scriptures, so that these truths have come to us only from the font of tradition."

N. Bergier (1715-90) thus proposes the subject: "The great question between Protestants and Catholics is to know if there are some divine or apostolic traditions touching dogmas which are in no wise contained in Sacred Scripture, and which are nevertheless a rule of faith. Protestants deny it, we sustain the opposite."

B. Liebermann (1759-1844) wrote: "Sacred Scripture is not perfect in the sense that it embraces the whole religion of Christ. If Scripture were perfect and the only source of Christian doctrine, it should before all tell us which books belong to Sacred Scripture. But it is entirely silent (omnino silet) about this dogma of supreme importance."

J. Perrone, S.J., (1794-1876) wrote: "Besides Sacred Scripture, divine and dogmatic traditions must be admitted, entirely distinct from Scripture… We have added that we must admit such traditions entirely distinct from Scripture to exclude the view of Protestants regarding traditions merely inherent and declarative."

J. Franzelin, S.J., (1816-1886) wrote much about tradition, and clearly upheld the old view. For example, he stated: "After the apostles and after the completion of the inspired writings the Church propagated by the apostles always professed, theoretically and practically, that some truths are divinely revealed which she had received, not from the Scripture but only from tradition."

A. Bonal, S.S., (1827-1904) whose manual of theology went through seventeen editions in the latter half of the nineteenth century, says: "Divine tradition is an entirely distinct source (locus) of Christian revelation, not only because it manifests that revelation in the state of the living and practical word, but also because it contains revealed truths which are not contained in the divine Scripture." This proposition Bonal declares to be an article of faith.

J. Hermann, C.SS.R., (1849-1927) makes these statements: "The unwritten word of God must be admitted as a source of revelation and of faith, independent of Scripture. . . . Divine traditions have the same force as Sacred Scripture, inasmuch as they have the same authority as the divine word of God." Both these propositions, the author asserts, are to be believed with divine-catholic faith, because of the Tridentine decree.

A. Tanquerey, S.S., (1854-1932) in his textbook for seminaries, asserts: "There exists divine tradition, as a font of revelation distinct from Scripture." This he says is de fide. He defines tradition as "revealed doctrine on faith or morals, not related in the Sacred Scriptures, committed by God to the Church and infallibly transmitted by legitimate pastors. "

G. Van Noort, says: "Tradition is a source of revelation distinct from Scripture, and goes beyond the data of Scripture. This is a dogma of faith from the Council of Trent and from the Vatican Council. The first part of the proposition states the existence of tradition in general and consequently includes inherent tradition; the second part refers specifically to constitutive tradition."

J. Salaverri, S.J., asserts: "Scripture needs tradition as a font of revelation to establish its divine authority. For the fact of inspiration, on which the divine authority of Scripture depends, is a truth per se revealed; therefore it must be contained in the fonts of revelation. But the fact of inspiration of all and each of the books of the New Testament is known only from divine tradition." And the author states that "it is a doctrine of divine faith, solemnly defined in the Councils, especially Trent and Vatican I, that Scripture and tradition are two fonts of divine revelation, endowed with equal authority."

Conclusion

It has been demonstrated that the first of the two "pillars of the Reformation" can't stand. By removing the Church as the Guardian and interpreter of Sacred Scripture, Luther and his fellow heretics began the path leading us to where we are today in the Great Apostasy. Everyone became their own "Scripture interpreter," and sects multiplied quickly with the passing whims of each era. People began to wonder if Christian truth was knowable as there were so many competing claims as to what the Bible "really means."  As the great G.K. Chesterton said, "The Catholic Church is the only thing which saves a man from the degrading slavery of being a child of his age."

97 comments:

  1. Thank you for refuting the false doctrines of the Protestants. Unfortunately, the false popes of the evil V2 sect do not do this when they organize ecumenical meetings with their "separated brethren". Rather, they encourage them to remain heretics because they believe their sects are part of the one true Church of Christ ! These men disguised as popes and who help to spread errors and false religions like Protestantism and Islam are devil's henchmen !

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Simon,
      "The One World Religion" is being ushered in by the Vatican II sect!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  2. Personally I like the series when you tackle major religions such as this one or Hinduism, Islam ect. But for a good majority of them I don't find them as interesting just because of the downright wacky nature of the religion in question. Based on personal life I have never really run into some of the more obscure religious practices, so for me it's not that the articles are not good or informative but that for the most part they do not have as much benefit for my daily life as other articles. I personally like the more direct debate type articles you post such as those exposing $teve $kojek and others. Either way it's your blog and I appreciate the time you take to write the articles as I enjoy reading them. Thanks for the good work and God bless.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. David,
      I appreciate your feedback very much!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  3. I like your articles but perhaps if you could dedicate more time to it (I am thinking of a book) it would be better.

    Some articles are very good but some of them focus too much on the beliefs of the sects, like the one about Islam, and not so much on the refutation, which tends to be quite dissapointing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Poni,
      Thank you kindly for your feedback!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  4. I noticed on Twitter you are debating a Feeneyite. Will you publish it here?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Poni,
      The Feeneyite seems to be of good will. He is the first to ever accept my challenge. If he ultimately accepts, I will link to the debate here on my blog!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  5. Introibo,

    I personally have enjoyed all your posts. Regarding the Strangers Come Knocking Series, I've also enjoyed them all, though I do agree a bit with Poni in that, more focus on refutation (at least for the larger religions, that we're more likely to encounter in our day to day experiences) would be nice, though I recognize it's no easy feat, and requires much study.

    I don't know if you've done it prior to this post, but I like the idea of laying out certain foundational doctrines/beliefs in religion and then refuting each one in more detail in separate posts like you did with Protestantism and sola scriptura/fide. That way I feel like it makes it easier for the readers to visualize the errors of these religions, gives you more time to tackle these false doctrines, and the overall quality of the refutation is improved.

    Either way, I enjoy the posts, though if the remaining religions are very obscure and we aren't likely to encounter them in the world, it may be worthwhile to drop the series and direct your efforts elsewhere, or maybe increase the time between the series' next posts from 1 month to 2 months, substituting in posts of different topics, etc.

    Nonetheless, excellent post.

    God Bless,
    Dapouf

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dapouf,
      Thank you for your thoughtful response!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. I agree with Dapouf's two month distance between posts.

      Delete
  6. I just came across a quote by the eminent Cardinal Nicholas Wiseman (d. 1865) which, I think, is a dynamite refutation of the Bible bashers:

    "The doctrine and practice of the Church must not be allowed to be impugned by those who have no claim at all to Scripture, and who can prove neither the canon, its inspiration, nor its primary doctrines, except through that very authority which they are questioning, and through treacherous inconsistency with the principles on which they are interrogating it. When many years ago this ground was boldly adopted, it was charged with being an attempt to throw Protestants into infidelity, and sap the foundations of the Bible. Years of experience, and observation not superficial, have only strengthened our conviction, that this course must be fearlessly pursued. We must deny to Protestantism any right to use the Bible, much more to interpret it. Cruel and unfeeling it may be pronounced by those who understand the strength of our position, and the cogency of the argument; but it is much more charitable than to leave them to the repeated sin of blaspheming God's Spouse, and trying to undermine the faith of our poor Catholics. The cry of 'The Bible! [T]he Bible! [N]othing but the Bible!' is as perilous to man's salvation as the Jews' senseless cry, 'The Temple of the Lord! [T]he Temple of the Lord! [T]he Temple of the Lord it is!' (Jeremiah 7:4)"

    God Bless,
    Joanna S.

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    Replies
    1. Joanna,
      Excellent quotation! Thank you for sharing!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  7. You could write about what to do if strangers like government agents who are contact tracers or vaccine pushers come knocking on our door. The New World Order religion of the global elites. That might draw a crowd.

    If you could write about the Eastern Orthodox, that would be a good one. Many traditionalist seem to gravitate towards it probably because they already reject their own pope and think they can.

    I notice in the comment sections of other conservative websites a lot of people who are either anti Catholic Protestants or Pagans will confuse the Novus Ordo religion with the Catholic Religion. They either like to smear all Catholics as pedophiles or they'll say some of the typical blasphemous language that equates Jesus with other false gods or they just give a generic Protestant faith in Jesus comment followed by a scripture verse. When rebuked or corrected all they do is say lol and say something even dumber than the first comment they make. It's quite sad.

    You could also start a series going after Novus Ordo apologist like Dave Armstrong who once bragged about defending Bergoglio (AKA Francis) 133 times trying to explain "what he really meant."

    Keep up the good work. You do a great job and I've certainly profited much from your writings.

    Lee

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    Replies
    1. I think Lee's suggestions are good. Particularly the one on the Eastern Orthodox, jeje. I remember when I once had a slight gravitation toward EO, before my brother quickly set me right, and I've noticed that several people who are leaning toward traditionalism (R&R "traditionalism", typically, but not always), tend to also be tempted toward EO.

      The Novus Ordo apologists one is also a fairly good suggestion, but at this point, it would seem we're suggesting a new series rather than whether or not to continue When Strangers Come Knocking. :)

      God Bless,
      Dapouf

      Delete
    2. Introibo,
      I agree with Lee about writing about the Eastern Orthodox and about the vaccine pushers. Also, think some writing on the Eastern Rite would be pertinent as many are leaving the NO and think the Eastern Rite is traditional.
      In any event regardless of what you choose to do your writings are priceless and thank you for all your hard work. It is greatly appreciated!!
      JoAnn

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    3. The Eastern Catholic rites are indeed traditional. (??)

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    4. JoAnn,

      How is it that people think that? Are not the Eastern Rites, so called, part of the NO? You have some like the Maronites that are fully on board with Vatican II, the conciliar popes, and all the changes, and others (from what I've seen) like the Melkites that (at least many lay Melkites) seem to effectively deny papal primacy and only consider the first seven ecumenical councils and Vatican II as truly ecumenical. All still seem to accept Vatican II, though. It seems to me that anyone who "leaves" the NO but considers the Eastern Rites traditional cares only about liturgy and not about doctrine, though I myself am not very experienced on this topic.

      God Bless,
      Dapouf

      Delete
    5. Dapouf,
      I guess I shouldn't have used the word "leave", but there are people who think that by attending the Eastern Rites they are leaving the N.O. as they wrongly think that the Eastern Rite is traditional. I know it sounds absurd but I know some people who actually believe this because of the liturgy. Therefore, they do not care about doctrine only the bells and incense.
      JoAnn

      Delete
    6. Lee,
      Your suggestions are quite good! Thank you for the valuable feedback and for being a guest poster!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    7. Joann,
      Thank you for the feedback! Thank you for being one of my top commenters over the years!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    8. Dapouf,
      Joann is correct in that many think the Eastern Rites were somehow "spared from Vatican II" and nothing changed. I've talked to some who erroneously believe this is the case.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    9. I think there should be clarifications here. There are Eastern rites, not an Eastern Rite. Some Eastern rites were not affected by Vatican II. I'm not saying you can attend them, just as you can't attend an FSSP Latin Mass said by a validly ordained priest. But I think it's wrong to say all of them are 'Novus Ordized'.

      Of course, the Eastern Novus Ordos are also modernists. (See this photograph of the three Novus Ordo patriarchs of Antioch posing with the 'Orthodox' and Monophysite patriarchs of Antioch: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Five_Patriarchs_of_Antioch.jpg)

      I've also seen many "Eastern Catholics" in the internet denying that they need to believe in doctrines like the Immaculate Conception, purgatory, and the procession of the Holy Spirit from the Son, or say that they believe in them in a different way from Latin-rite Catholics.

      Many "Eastern Catholic" clergy are dropping the Filioque clause after John Paul II said the Byzantine liturgy once (in "Latin-rite" Novus Ordo vestments!) and omitted the clause to please the Orthodox. It's true that Eastern Catholics were not obliged by the Church to say them when they returned, but at least some of them have, in the past, voluntarily chosen to say the clause, and omitting the clause today after previously saying it can mean either an effort to please the schismatics like what John Paul II did or an implicit denial of the dogma that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, which some "Eastern Catholics" today do indeed deny.

      Delete
    10. Which Eastern Rites were not affected by Vatican II? Please clarify.
      Thanks.
      JoAnn

      Delete
    11. JoAnn,

      Ah, yes; the good 'ol "bells 'n smells", jaja! Regarding Vatican II affecting the Eastern rites, I believe the anonymous poster was referring to liturgy, which doesn't seem particularly wrong to me, though I don't know much about this side of Catholicism. I've only heard that the Maronite liturgy had some changes made to it (my mother's side is Maronite), but I'd have to investigate this further.


      @anon5:35,

      If you were referring to me, note that I didn't mention anything about liturgical changes being made to the Eastern rites (and yes, I added an "s" for rite[s] ;]). Rather I pointed out that they are on board with the doctrinal changes made by Vatican II (if they even accept it, rather than consider it a "local Latin Council"... In which case I don't see how they [byzantine Catholics, from what I've seen thus far] can be considered Catholic at all, not regarding 13 Councils as universal and binding on them, for instance, as well as the other things that you excellently pointed out) such as religious freedom, "subsistit in", etc. Thus, even if one were to become an "Eastern Catholic" they would still not have escaped the doctrinal garbage that should have been the main motivation for leaving the Novus Ordo in the first place. Thus, their priorities are reflected by the only thing that actually improves by transitioning from Latin NO to Eastern NO: liturgy.

      God Bless,
      Dapouf

      Delete
    12. If I'm not mistaken, the Byzatine Rite, for example, is not affected, at least substantially. There is no Byzantine Novus Ordo. Compare to the Maronite rite, which has a new bastardized Novus Ordo liturgy.

      Delete
    13. And yes, Dapouf, I was referring to liturgy, not doctrine. Eastern-rite Novus Ordites are Novus Ordites, no question.

      Delete
    14. @anon9:38,

      Agreed. What you mention about the Maronites is what I had in mind, but I have yet to investigate this. My brother once looked into this some time ago, and if I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be because I know near to nothing on this subject), they had made changes to the words of consecration. So who knows, maybe the Maronite mass itself is now invalid.

      God Bless,
      Dapouf

      Delete
    15. On the topic of Eastern NOites, I just remembered that a very curious trend and error I've seen among them is that they mistake the Latin Rite as the "Roman Rite", and they do not consider themselves (or the Catholic Church as a whole) Roman, which is a pretty grave error to me. I could point out that Vatican I, when referring to the Church, included the words *Roman*, but then again, they'll just say it was a local council and did not apply to them (insert sobbing emoji). I recall an excellent article by John Daly on this point actually.

      God Bless,
      Dapouf

      Delete
    16. Dapouf, it's true that Eastern Catholics are indeed Roman Catholics, that the Catholic Churh is indeed the Roman Catholic Church, and that the Roman Catholic Church is indeed not identical to the Latin Catholic Church. You're also right that today, many "Eastern Catholics" deny that. (I've also noticed that a lot of them have an anti-Roman attitude. This not only means that they deny or resent some dogmas held by the Latin Church (and by the whole Catholic Church, of course; for example, there was one time when I read in disbelief one "Eastern Catholic" say in the internet that they Easterners hate the Council of Trent and distance theirselves from it), but this expands to their beliefs, shared (or rather, from) the Orthodox, that the popes have been cruel to Eastern Catholics, wanted to latinize them, etc. (the old and usual), which the popes have repeatedly and emphatically denied (for example, by Pope St. Pius X in his "Ex Quo"). Like what John Daly said, all Catholics are Roman, and you cannot be a good Catholic without loving Rome. Dom Gueranger said that hatred of Rome is planted in the hearts of the enemies of the Catholic Church. Considering these, compare the Easter Catholics of the past and the "Eastern Catholics" of today).

      However, I think you're wrong here. The Latin Rite is indeed the Roman Rite. It is referred to as the Roman Rite by virtually all sources, including the Catholic Enyclopedia as well as papal encyclicals. Eastern Catholics recognize the bishop of Rome, the pope, as their head, thus they are Roman (this is what Pope St. Pius X said in his catechism), but they do not use the rite of his diocese, the Diocese of Rome, but use their own, so their rite cannot be called "Roman".

      Delete
    17. The Eastern Rites ALL had their Canon Law "brought into alignment" with Vatican II as of 1990. It's hard for me to believe that this didn't work its way into their Liturgies and Sacraments these past 32 years.

      You must absolutely stay away from them. AS TO VALIDITY of the Sacrifice and Sacraments, while not having done a study, I find it hard to believe that most have not become invalid as well as non-Catholic (having fully incorporated the heresies of Vatican II.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    18. @anon3:24,

      I figured I may be mistaken on that initial point (Latin Rite =/= Roman Rite); I am indeed quite unlearned in this subject, so I concede this point. I myself haven't read much which is why I probably haven't seen much reference to the "Roman Rite" as opposed to the "Latin Rite". Regarding Easterners, I did notice that a lot of them hate Trent, and the whole claim about being treated horribly by Rome, etc. A truly sad event. Thank you for sharing the other points on Pope St. Pius X, Dom Gueranguer, etc. Perhaps I had once read about them but I definitely didn't remember.


      Introibo,

      I wasn't aware of that! This issue is very fascinating, I'm interested in looking into it in the future.

      God Bless you both,
      Dapouf

      Delete
    19. Okay, that makes sense.

      Delete
    20. Anything and everything that Vatican II touches gets corrupted in one way or another. It isn't called the Great Apostasy for nothing.
      JoAnn

      Delete
    21. (That was for Introibo :)

      Delete
    22. Joann,
      You're so right!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    23. Anonymous. /as you point out whatever Vatican 11 touches gets corrupted. A little leaven corrupteth the whole lump.

      Delete
  8. Introibo.Would it shock you to learn that a sedevacantist bishop is a active homosexual.A former seminarian has finally told his family about a number of shocking facts.Sorry to drop a bombshell.In these times we can expect anything.What would you do if it was your son?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. anon@4:03,
      Would I be shocked? It depends on who the bishop is (someone established or some "fly by nighter" with dubious orders). My reaction would depend upon what my son revealed. Are we talking about a sodomite who tells seminarians it's "OK" to commit such heinous acts? Did he proposition him? Commit sexual assault while he slept?

      First, I would expose the bishop and publicly denounce him. If he wants to sue me, go right ahead. Telling the truth is an affirmative defense against the tort of slander. If it was sexual assault, I'd have my son file a criminal complaint with the police and ask the DA to press charges. I would continue to assail him by all legal and ethical means until he has no seminarians left, and hopefully winds up either (a) in prison or (b) alone in a monastery doing penance for the rest of his miserable life.

      That having been said, there must be credible evidence against this bishop. Everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. I don't know what bishop or seminarian to whom you refer, but I've been on the Earth for almost 57 years, and in the Traditionalist Movement over 40 years; enough time to know that some people lie. Perhaps this young man was forced by his family to become a priest and he said this so he could leave with their approval. Who knows? Based on what you wrote I have nothing to go on.

      I was with Fr. DePauw from 1981 until his holy death in 2005. If I had a dime for each of the many calumnies his enemies spoke against him, I'd be a multi-millionaire.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. Are you the same guy who always talks about any random homo sede cleric who allegedly rapes people, yet;
      1: You never accuse them outside of the internet
      2: You never accuse them with the police
      3: You barely mention any name

      I don't know if it is you or not, but that is besides the following points:

      If what you say is true, then why are you here? Go an accuse them with someone who can cover him with chains. I live miles from the closer sede chapel and many of this readers too. I can't do anything to help you.

      What is the editor supposed to do? Call Batman? If you don't take action against this homipervert rapist whoever he is apart from random comments, then, with all due respect, my friend, you are seriously wasting your time.

      If what you say is false, then begone, because calumny is a seriously evil sin, and people like you make it hard for real victims to be listened to.

      And if any homopervert rapist is reading this lines, yes, you, you deserve the death penalty + ETERNAL HELL if you don't repent.

      Delete
    3. If you don’t call Batman I will.

      Delete
    4. Poni,
      Your comment is both factual and HYSTERICAL! You've got a great sense of humor! I don't know how to contact Batman (he keeps his identity secret too!), but maybe Ryan can help this poor commenter!

      Thank you Poni!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    5. If he only told his family, are you his family?

      Delete
    6. anon@1:44

      Not that I believe anon@4:03, but in fairness, he didn't say that the "former seminarian" *only* told his family, or even if the "former seminarian" actually only told his family, that the family was bound to keep the "shocking facts" to themselves.

      Delete
    7. Before everybody hates on this guy and makes quick assumptions, this could be a cry for help from an actually family member. I asked if he or she was a family member because I believe they could be looking for help. While the Barman answer was funny, what if this really is a cry for help? It should be taken seriously. If it was my son, well, he would have left immediately and shouted it to the skies, but not everyone has that personality and predators take advantage of those who will not say anything, but I would go to the police and have the ex seminarian give sworn testimony. This might encourage others to come forward, because there are always others. And just so some seminarians or even priests know, you are not bound for all eternity to your bishop as many make them sign and swear. I know of two sede bishops who do this, and even make the Sisters sign as well. This is not Catholic! But a mind control technique.

      Delete
    8. @anon12:36
      No one is "hating on" anyone. I gave a sincere answer, but it really is a no-brainer. I always get, every few months, some comment about an always unnamed Traditionalist cleric who allegedly did something illegal and immoral (usually involving homosexuality), and then being asked, "What would I do."

      You knew that going to the police is a must, and you should also retain the advice of a good lawyer for a lawsuit against the cleric. I have never heard of this "mind control technique" and don't know of any Traditionalist Bishop who does such. Interestingly, youalso give no names.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  9. Doesn’t the idea of the trinity come from tradition?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ryan,
      The NAME "Trinity" comes to us from Sacred Tradition--as well as the theological nuances. The idea of the Trinity is clearly believed and expressed in the Bible, e.g., the Great Commission (St. Matthew 28:16-20).

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. Thanks for the clarification Introbio

      Delete
  10. You posted this on January 3, the day Luther was officially excommunicated. Great timing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon2:10
      I'd like to be able to say "I planned it to coincide with the 501st anniversary of Luther's excommunication"--but it just happened to work out that way!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  11. Introibo,
    I really appreciate your series "When Strangers Come Knocking", especially when it comes to larger religions such as Islam. I like it because of the fact that I like Catholic apologetics. I think it is especially important these days to show the rationales for the truthfulness of the Catholic faith and the falsity of other religions.
    If you would like to end this series I would see in its place well an apologetic series that would discuss in turn such topics as: the existence of God, the immortality of the soul, the possibility and necessity of Revelation, the reliability of the Gospel, the nature of the Church etc. I think it would also be useful for traditionalists today.
    I also equally enjoy reading about such topics as Adam and Eve, monogenism, evolution, and the compatibility of reason and faith. I myself attend a high school with a major in mathematics and physics. I find it very fascinating how we can learn about our Creator both by reason alone and through Revelation. Let us hope in Christ that in heaven all our theological problems will be solved by seeing God face to face.

    God Bless,
    Paweł

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pawel,
      Thank you for a very thoughtful response! I greatly appreciate it!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. Introibo,
      I have a question about moral theology. Theologian Jone explains:
      "A woman sins gravely by expelling the seminal fluid or preventing its entry into the uterus. It is not sinful to do so if she has been the victim of rape or deception provided she does so before conception, since in this instance the semen is equivalent to an unjust aggressor." ("Moral Theology", p. 541).
      How are these words to be understood? The end does not justify the means, but is it permissible to use, for example, the contraceptive pill to fight an unjust aggressor (semen)?

      God Bless,
      Paweł

      Delete
    3. Pawel,
      In using a contraceptive pill, you are actually inducing an abortion, which is murder. Many so-called "contraceptives" are actually abortion-inducing medications. The woman may flush herself in an effort to prevent the conception from rape.

      While theologian Jone is an approved theologian, I suggest you study theologians McHugh and Callan's two volume work, which covers these principles in depth. One volume manuals, like Jone and theologian Prummer, were written as a reference for parish priests who already possess theological training and education. McHugh and Callan was meant for seminary students needing to learn from scratch.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    4. Found in the Catholic Archive too!
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VHUlAEcNMUGjKY4RYRmcFGM1ogqQWkE9/view

      Delete
    5. The Catholic Archive,
      You've developed a wonderful and invaluable resource!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  12. To anyone that may be equipped to answer,

    I'm going to start learning Latin soon, and my hopes are to get it to a level of mastery where I can read Catholic documents in their original Latin. Supposing I'm able to attain the level I desire, is it difficult to find these documents (say, encyclicals, writings from the Latin Fathers, etc. really anything)? What can I expect, if it's even possible?

    God Bless,
    Dapouf

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dapouf,
      If you go to "Preserving Christian Publications" (you can Google them) they have a whole section in Latin. Having taken several years of Latin, I obtained some great books from Fr. DePauw, and many years of searching both pre and post Internet.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. Introibo,

      The selection is great! Thanks so much!

      God Bless,
      Dapouf

      Delete
  13. I am going off topic here. How many are disgusted with good ole Pres. Biden stating "we are in a pandemic of the unvaccinated"? The pandemic came from China not the "unvaccinated" Americans. I am so sick about hearing vaccines pushed everyday in the news and on the internet. It seems the ones getting the Omnicron variant are the vaccinated. I am unvaccinated and trying to get a job and all I get from prospective employers is "are you vaccinated". My theory on the vaccines is that the vaccines are making the virus mutate faster. Just my 2 cents worth of a rant.
    JoAnn

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Joann,
      We now have a fake president to match the fake pope. The 1918 Spanish Flu was much more serious and we had virtually no medical technology. Here we are in 2022 still fighting a flu that started in March of 2020. Did the vaxx have something to do with it? I believe it did.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. Coincidentally the last Catholic Emporer with temporal power was deposed in 1918.
      From what I've learned over the yrs,we have been living through a slow grinding unrelenting chastisment since 1861 abd picking up speed in 1914.
      God bless -Andrew

      Delete
    3. Introibo,
      Everything is fake it seems between, the fake president, the fake pope, the fake news and a vaccine hoax being pushed on the world. It is like a science fiction novel, but unfortunately it is our reality in the year 2022. Now they are pushing booster shots. I wonder what variant is going to mutate from the booster shot now. Stay tuned for another vaccine "Days of Our Lives".
      JoAnn

      Delete
    4. JoAnn,

      I for one can't stand politics. The constant lying and indoctrination is too sickening and it's evident that nobody actually cares about anything other than themselves, perhaps family, and filling the massive hole in their souls left by tearing religion, in any meaningful sense, out of it, with incessant, often useless, controversial arguments/discussions, none of which are actually centered around improving the sanctity of either party.

      Imagine the good that could result if even a fraction of all this time and energy that people waste went into pondering over the fact that something cannot come from nothing, and following this result to it's logical conclusion! Maybe then people can truly heed the words of Our Lord in Matthew 6:26-34 and, will cease to make getting a virus with such a measly death rate, given what it's made out to be, the center of the Universe.

      In regards to the vaccine, though, my news would come from the incessant promomting on YouTube (which I've since given up, for the most part). I've been lucky enough to not have my religious exemption challenged by my university, and hopefully it'll stay that way! Something that Biden had done or written (I don't keep up with anything so I don't actually know what it was LOL) had made my University make everyone who already had a religious exemption resubmit it WITH justification.

      God Bless you and keep you in good health (and sane!) this year,
      Dapouf

      Delete
    5. I don’t think COVID exists, not at least as we understand it. COVID is a repackaging of all infectious respiratory diseases into a one germ one disease model. It doesn’t surprise me that COVID treatments don’t work and often have ill effects, as I imagine treating people for a fake disease instead of what they have would be deleterious to peoples health. As a side note new evidence has emerged in the last 20 or so years which indicates the Spanish flu seems to be a combination of novel: drugs (aspirin, vaccines) which were applied in the wrong dosages, ww1, and bacterial meningitis.

      Delete
    6. Studies show that the majority of deaths during the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic were due to bacterial pneumonia caused largely by the continuous wearing of face masks. Even Fauci agrees with this!

      Delete
  14. Do we offer the Epiphany house blessing today tomorrow or Sunday?
    Thank you God bless -Andrew ✝

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Andrew,
      Fr. DePauw said the 6th, or it could be transferred to the nearest Sunday.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. Thank you kindly!
      God bless my friend. -A

      Delete
  15. I love the When Strangers Come Knocking series as well, but mainly in order to defend the Catholic Faith. It is so important to be armed when approached by a JH or Mormon on the street, but also to defend the Catholic Faith in general against all the weird sects we can find in our daily lives at more extended family gatherings, the office, etc. Again, Introibo you do such a fantastic job researching, so thank you! I also would appreciate a post of the Orthodox, because I know a former sedevacantist who has gone Orthodox and gave up his rosary beads! This is a tragedy!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon1:42,
      Thank you for the great feedback! I am listening carefully to what my readers have to say!

      god Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  16. https://go.citizengo.org/LP2-Share-en.html?m=5&nid=205704&utm_campaign=EN_US-2021-12-15-Local-NA-GME--Mandatory_Vaccine_Fallout.03_AA_Relaunch_1&goal=10000&title=We%20Oppose%20Biden%27s%20Mandatory%20Vaccine%20Plan

    Sign petition against Osha vax mandate

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Poni,
      Thank you for the information!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  17. Dear Introibo,
    no matter what subject you wish to elaborate on, I'll be more than happy to read it and comment, and provide a guest article. Your blog is one of the most reasonable, charitable, and wholesome places in the Traditionalist movement, and a source of great consolation to me.

    I second Lee's opinion that you could double down on refuting pseudo-trad gurus and tackle some of the issues related to the current governmental oppression.

    The Eastern Novus Ordo/schismatics is a trap many have fallen into, much like the Latin-Massism, and for this reason deserves a refutation too.

    Thank you for keeping this wonderful place going, my Friend!
    God Bless,
    Joanna S.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Joanna,
      Thank you so much! Your articles help keep this blog going, and your comments always add to the quality of the post! Thank you for your great feedback.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
  18. Protestantism is not a monolithic sect. Rather it is a multiplicity of sects originating in the 16th century with the so-called "Reformation" begun by apostate priest Martin Luther. Others who played a big role include King Henry VIII of England, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli. To attempt a history would take many posts.

    Why not subdivide Protestant sects into these three groups:
    * Porvoo communion - Lutherans, Anglicans, Moravians (formerly Hussites), Methodists;
    * Zwinglians, Calvinists, Waldensians
    * (Arminians subdvide with theological Calvinists in previous as in following)
    * Congregationalist sects, Anabaptist, Baptist, similar.

    All Protestants have two (false) doctrines in common: (1) sola scripture (the Bible as the sole rule of Faith), and (2) sola fide (justification by faith alone).

    Actually, we also have the ideas that Holy Mass is not a true and redemptive sacrifice. And that there are only two or three "Gospel sacraments" (meaning those who admit in some sense seven sacraments degrade the ones other than Baptism and Eucharist and possibly Confession to a secondary rank).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hans,
      You are correct about the Holy Sacrifice and the Sacraments being denigrated and demolished in Protestantism. However, those heretical ideas are merely the logical result of sola scriptura and sola fide. After all, sola scriptura with its concomitant private interpretation, leads to "Christ died once for all and the Mass is a blasphemy." Also, who needs a Sacrifice and sacraments, since we are saved wholly apart from anything--all you need is faith in Christ.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    2. "However, those heretical ideas are merely the logical result of sola scriptura and sola fide."

      Many Protestants have tried to deduce them from that. They do not follow.

      After all, sola scriptura with its concomitant private interpretation, leads to "Christ died once for all and the Mass is a blasphemy.""

      Doesn't lead to, as the private interpretation has no need whatsoever to get there rather than for instance "Christ said John the Baptist was Elijah Reincarnated" or "Christ said no Christians have a right to bear weapons". Occasions, and was in turn motivated by this untraditional, but also unscriptural, rejection.

      "Also, who needs a Sacrifice and sacraments, since we are saved wholly apart from anything--all you need is faith in Christ."

      Was definitely not the exact idea of Luther, who believed regeneration by Baptism. He also believed Eucharist (in his non-sacrificial sense) and Confession are obligatory expressions of Faith. And that the child is saved in the faith of the parents, or of the sponsors, or of the Church, expressed through Baptism.

      Kent Hovind thinks you need a sacramental, "the sinner's prayer" ... which in certain ways parallels the Complete Consecration to Mary. To pinpoint the exact sacraments of the Catholic Church as the thing you don't need is illogical. Even with "sola fide".

      I think CSL was spot on when he analysed "the real problem was the 'blasphemous fable of the mass' with faith vs works as a mere red herring." (Approximating quote from memory, and forgetting exact context, could have been a letter).

      Delete
    3. Hans,
      Those ideas DO follow from sola scriptura and sola fide. The Sacraments are all not explicitly found in Scripture. Why do you think "Lord's Supper" and "Communion" are the two almost all accept? Extreme Unction has but one mention in St. James, and it can be interpreted privately as a non-sacrament.

      Whether of not this was the "exact idea" of Luther, extrinsic justification necessitates it. "“Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly.” Luther taught salvation even apart from baptism; he considered it essential but not indispensable.
      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

      Delete
    4. " Why do you think "Lord's Supper" and "Communion" are the two almost all accept?"

      They are the same. You forget Baptism, which is the actual other one.

      And you forget - on the topic of "sola scriptura" freaks ALSO denying Holy Mass, that Hebrews 13:10 reads "echomen thusiasterion" (from which those cannot eat who serve the tabernacle [of OT worship]) and that Malachi 1:11 speaks of a sacrifice that is offered everywhere on earth when God's name is hallowed among gentiles. And you forget that St. Paul applied to Christ "tu es sacerdos in aeternum secondum ordinem Melchisedec" - if Protestants really had taken "sola scriptura" as the first principle, they would normally have been obliged by now to say "well, we were wrong to reject the sacrifice of the Mass" (in the light of these passages).

      "Extreme Unction has but one mention in St. James, and it can be interpreted privately as a non-sacrament."

      Even when it involves a promise of forgiveness of sins?

      But seriously, privately one could both depress some sacraments and exalt some non-sacraments (like the washing of feet), so private interpretation does not in and of itself lead to reducing the sacraments to two or three either.

      So, no, "sola scriptura" is not the proton pseudos, it is an excuse to deviate from tradition correcting readings that were very idiosyncratic as readings. This said, sola scriptura is wrong and self-contradictory - sola scriptura non in scriptura - but it is not in and of itself sufficient for the major disaster of Protestantism.

      "Luther taught salvation even apart from baptism; he considered it essential but not indispensable."

      Are you a Feeneyite? Did St. Emerentiana not get saved by baptism of blood?

      "Whether of not this was the "exact idea" of Luther, extrinsic justification necessitates it."

      Ah, this is getting somewhere. But it does not follow from "sola scriptura" - and only from a certain, fairly idiosyncratic reading of "sola fide"

      Delete
    5. Hans,
      I meant to write baptism but when you reply while working as many hours as I do, mistakes are sometimes made.

      Your citation about Mass proves my point. You can interpret it that way, but Protestants can (and have) offered differing interpretations having jettisoned Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium. Who decides?

      St. James talks about forgiveness of sin. So what? For Protestants that only means sincere repentance brought about by praying with “elders.” (The priesthood of all believers does away with a true hierarchy).
      They are once saved always saved, but SHOULD (not must) repent so as to secure God’s blessings.

      Protestants only recognize as sacraments those Christ specifically instituted in the Bible—hence only Baptism and Lord’s Supper.

      Am I a Feeneyite? Only someone who is completely ignorant of this blog and my writing could make such a statement. Baptism or an extraordinary substitute (BOD/BOB) is necessary for salvation. Luther taught salvation totally apart from the Grace of Baptism via the sacrament or a substitute.

      Sola Fide makes the sacraments and Holy Sacrifice unnecessary. Sola scriptura makes them “unbiblical.”

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

      Delete
    6. Where would Protestants even get their ideas of tradition from if not the Catholic Church? Wouldn’t said tradition be contrary to Protestantism in the first place? Protestantism is not apostolic, being founded 1500 years after Christ.

      Delete
    7. @ Introibo

      "Your citation about Mass proves my point. You can interpret it that way, but Protestants can (and have) offered differing interpretations having jettisoned Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium. Who decides?"

      Well, "sçola scriptura" doesn't - either way.

      And the interpretations they came up with ... they don't really feel like showing them off, I missed them while I was Lutheran.

      "Luther taught salvation totally apart from the Grace of Baptism via the sacrament or a substitute."

      Sure he did?

      I'd like a reference. The idea of condemning Baptism not being necessary at Trent may not have been directed at Luther, any more than condemning denial of Original Sin.

      But if you are right, I missed that too while a Lutheran (decided conversion and stopped attending Lutheran services at 16).

      @ Ryan : the logical conclusion of ditching tradition is apostasy.

      "sola scriptura" doesn't mean ditching all of tradition, it means keeping what is consistent (according to the judgement of this or that reformer) with Scripture.

      As all of Tradition is so, the result is illogical.

      And as bad logic doesn't tend to unify, there is no such thing as "Protestantism" there are only ProtestantismS in the plural.

      Either way, they are semi-apostolic since they don't completely apostasise, like usually don't deny the Trinity (Socinians are a counterexample) and don't deny the Resurrection.

      Delete
    8. Hans,
      Ok I see your point (the last horse crosses the finish line lol) but would you not agree there are as many types of Protestantism as there are Protestants? The way I see it is that there are universal themes within Protestantism, which this article covers, that necessarily lead Protestants towards the Protestantism’s logical conclusion which is liberalism. Some Protestants are just further down that rabbit hole than others.

      Delete
    9. The universal theme in Protestantism is denial of Holy Mass.

      "Sola Scriptura" is not actually a rabbit hole - it is simply a negation of Tradition being binding and of Magisterium being binding.

      And "sola scriptura" gives very different amounts of leeway for remaining tradition and rags of magsiterial authority depending on which Protestantism.

      And, taken by itself, sola scriptura doesn't lead to the specifically Protestant negations.

      You could become a Skopts, a Messianic Jew (these are de facto also usually Protestants, but not through that principle), a believer in Reincarnation (example : St. John the Baptist being the prophet Elijah reincarnated), a believer in eight, nine or ten sacraments as soon as or sooner than a Protestant.

      Denial of Holy Mass being a real sacrifice can come from Cicero (for whom sacrifices are purely luck charms), Stoics (for whom your own worth can't be modified by religious rites), Jews (post-AD-70 without any temple), Muslims (never had a priesthood) ... it does not in and of itself come from "sola scriptura" anymore than from "faith vs works" ...

      Within Scripture, you have Melchisedec (Genesis, Psalms, Epistle), Malachi 1:11, Hebrews habemus altare. Only thing against it even remotely possibly would be Romans 6:9 and once you realise the Catholic doctrine doesn't state the renewed sacrifice implies a second, third etc death, you realise that is a strawman.

      Protestants are not as much clever at explaining the pro-Mass passages as either shy or clumsy. While I was a Lutheran, I did not fervently disbelieve Mass was a Sacrifice, I did not take pride in debunking the pro-Mass use of the said passages, I simply ignored the issue, and I was already pro-Real Presence.

      Delete
    10. Hans,
      You continue to prove my point. Sola scriptura allows anyone to twist Bible verses to justify and novel doctrine. Without Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium, anything goes.

      Sola fide makes it all moot anyway. Just believe and be saved.

      God Bless,

      —-Introibo

      Delete
    11. You said it : "anything" - that does not exactly equal the errors specific to all Protestants, like denial of Holy Mass.

      And it can be added, this is only "in practise" as the text in and of itself has some safeguards.

      Delete
    12. Hans,
      Here's how it works and why there are approx. 200 Protestant sects in the U.S. alone:

      Luther was a misfit who didn't belong in the priesthood. He was afraid of going to Hell, and didn't like the idea of Sacrifice--especially in one's own life to imitate Christ.

      Therefore:

      1. Claim you are saved by Faith alone.

      2. Make the Bible the sole rule of Faith and twist Scripture to support #1 above.

      Whenever there is a disagreement, use your private interpretation to make the Bible mean what you want. The text has no safeguards. Don't believe me? Some denominations teach "Holy Laughter" is a sign of salvation, that there is no Trinity, that Hell is non-existent, etc. These are the errors specific to ALL Protestants, and hatred of the Mass comes from sola fide, Christ died once for all so just believe that--no need for an unbloody Sacrifice to apply the merits.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    13. "why there are approx. 200 Protestant sects in the U.S. alone"

      Lutherans are one of them.

      You cannot put down all their aberrations to Luther's person. You can say that his principle was wrong, which it was, but you cannot add it was enough for his specific aberrations, let alone the others.

      Here is why: "sola scriptura" only applies in any Protestantism as long as it suits it.

      In 17th C. Sweden (a country by then monolithically Lutheran, any Catholic had to die or go into exile) there was a debate. Does the Confessio Augustana oblige "qua" Biblical or "quia" Biblical? The time being, it was leaning to "quia" - because it is Biblical, it can licitly pose de facto as magisterium.

      But the text has safeguards and one of them is against "sola scriptura" - you cannot disregard it long enough to remain a lifelong Protestant without disregarding other things as well.

      The real problem was, as you mentioned, Luther found the Catholic criteria for getting saved irksome and tried to invent others. And as he had once given up marriage for the worthiest possible offering up of the sacrifice, he denied the sacrifice so he could marry after ordination, which even the Orthodox do not do.

      "hatred of the Mass comes from sola fide"

      Possible, but certainly not from "sola scriptura". Neither does "sola fide" itself follow from it.

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    14. Hans,
      My last word on this:
      Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide are the pillars from which all other errors flow. The epistle of St. James clearly says that faith without good works is dead--and yet divorced from Sacred tradition and the Magisterium, Protestants explain it away. (See St. James 2:14-26).

      If the Bible is your sole rule of faith with private interpretation you can use it to justify anything--and among those things was sole fide. Sola Fide takes away the raison d'etre for the Sacrifice of the Mass and salvific Sacraments. If these pillars are cut down, Protestantism goes with it.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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  19. Regarding the continuation of "when strangers come knocking" I would heartily endorse it's continuation as I find it an extremely useful resourse, not only to inform myself but to avail me of material that debunks such as Sola Scriptura.
    Many times it is not when strangers come knocking but rather associates, friends and even immediate family that question one's faith and argue against Catholicism. Without your articles it is hard for a simple layman to pinpoint the refutations available in scripture and Tradition. This latest article is to me a Godsend as it pertains particularly to my situation where I try to convince my daughters concerning the essential sacrament of baptism for my four grandchildren. I have to compete with my better half who has their confidence, and believes wholly in Sola Scriptura etc.
    So I would say that however obscure some may find the articles concerning less mainstream, odd, "religions" one never knows when one may be confronted by even the most obscure. Not only is it essential to defend the Faith but it is a necessary obligation of a Catholic, as an act of charity, to point out the errors of any false religion and attempt to convert wayward souls to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

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    1. Francis,
      Thank you for your great feedback! It is greatly appreciated!

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    2. Francis,
      Very well put. I am new to this blog, but I am finding so many relevant and beneficial posts. God bless you in your evangelization efforts with your family.
      -S.T.

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  20. Thank you for these posts! I have been taking notes from this post, to better arm myself for conversations with Protestant relatives and others. I have perused other posts in this series, and I have found them to be very informative as well. God bless you for your efforts. Lots to learn!

    I had to take a detour while reading this, to re-learn about the faith without works fallacy, since it has been well over a year that I studied it. The argument just seems academic to me, like missing the forest for the trees, and getting caught up in semantics, if I'm using the term correctly. Taking St. Paul's words in the proper context, and pointing out the ridiculousness of doing, or not doing, whatever you want (active sin, sins of omission) as long as you have the "faith", seems to be a quick and effective argument. Also, the argument that demons too believe, so what?

    When we were trying to deepen our faith after letting ourselves become lukewarm, we joined a protestant Bible study group. It had its good points, but one of the red flags was someone saying, "Thank God we have our study group, with good members, so that we can know what's right." I immediately thought, how did she come to that conclusion? Although I liked our group, I knew it certainly wasn't perfect.

    I know they will argue that they are safe, since they are all guided by the Holy Spirit in their interpretations. I know we should trust in Him, but isn't He expecting us to listen the Church that He, Himself, is guiding? The Church Jesus started? It's almost as if Jesus gave us teachers and a manual for living, but instead, we simply pray and navigate our own way, rather than trust in His Church's magisterium.

    I think our family will cling to this - that they are safe to interpret as they will by virtue of praying to the Holy Ghost. If anyone happens to read this, please, by all means correct any of my erroneous thoughts on these matters or improve upon my arguments. Constructive criticism is most welcome.

    -Seeking Truth (S.T.)

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    1. S.T.,
      I'm glad you find value in my posts!

      Try this:
      1. If everyone is guided by the Holy Ghost simply by prayer, why are there disagreements as to major points of doctrine?

      2. The usual reply is, "As long as we believe the basics we are ok."

      3. What are the basics? The reply will usually be along the lines of "accepting Christ as my personal Lord and Savior."

      4. What about children who cannot believe? They go to Hell? The usual reply is Christ said "Suffer the children to come unto Me."

      5. What about adult retards? "they are like children"

      6. Do you favor abortion? NO!

      7. Why not? By abortion we send children to Heaven! Because God said not to murder! Surely, God will forgive someone who believes if they send someone to Heaven, right?

      8. Finally, "it seems like you're doing a lot of reading between the lines of things that are not written. A simple document like the US Constitution requires a Supreme Court to interpret it. Don't you think God would give us an infallible guide to all believe the same--like and infallible supreme court?

      Try starting there.

      God Bless,

      ---Introibo

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    2. Introibo,

      Those are great points! They have been noted. Thank you for the advice. I'm working through the 2nd post. I should be able to memorize your talking points easily enough, and then ideally arm myself with more info to continue to get people to open their minds and start doubting their positions. We have a family reunion coming up very soon, and most likely we will be the only Catholics there. So, if we can set good examples, and sow some seeds, that would be great. Ideally, the locals will come to church with us at least once and ask questions.

      Thanks again for your help,
      -S.T.

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