Traditionalists often get a bad reputation. Many people will see us as "eccentric." A lot of it we bring on ourselves when we exalt apparitions and other private revelations over dogma and the teachings of the approved pre-Vatican II theologians. Some of it comes when we are affiliated (wrongly) with some strange people or groups who claim ties to Traditionalists or attempt to engage us in argumentation so as to persuade us to join them. I will discuss three such individuals/groups that should be avoided at all costs. If someone asks you about them, I hope to arm you with enough information so that you can explain why they have nothing to do with Traditionalists, nor do they represent our theological positions.
1.
Eucharist and Mission Blog (Lionel Andrades)
I wrote about this individual twice before (see my posts of 6/22/15 and 6/29/15), but I bring him up yet again because I was informed that he misrepresented my remarks (he did) and claimed that I (along with Fr. Cekada and Bp. Sanborn) would "not answer" three questions he poses. The fact is everyone ignores him because (at the risk of sounding uncharitable) he needs (a) prayers for conversion, (b) a decent education, and (c) lithium. He is a "Vatican II Feeneyite," i.e., he not only accepts the heresies of Vatican II and the post-Vatican II "popes", but he denies Baptism of Desire (BOD) and Baptism of Blood (BOB) as being sufficient for Church membership and salvation without Baptism with water.
Unlike the "Dimond Brothers" at Most Holy Family Monastery who are sedevacantist-Fenneyites and twist the teachings of the Church beyond recognition regarding BOD and BOB, Andrades has a twisted theory that is as ridiculous as it is amusing and pathetic. He attempts to salvage both Vatican II and Fennyism by making a distinction between "visible/invisible" and "implicit/explicit." According to Andrades, since no one can see the dead, we don't know if anyone is in Heaven without Baptism in water, so BOD and BOB are "implicit" and hypothetical. Likewise, when
Unitatis Redintegratio of Vatican II claims that Christ uses Protestant sects as a "means of salvation," we can't see the dead, so it's hypothetical for us in 2015 and is consistent with pre-Vatican II ecclesiology. He claims you can read the documents of Vatican II with "Cushingism" (his neologism for Richard Cardinal Cushing, the Archbishop of Boston who condemned Fr. Feeney) and "Feeneyism." He even makes obviously historically inaccurate remarks, such as BOD and BOB without being followed by Baptism with water started with the
Baltimore Catechism in the 19th century. (I guess he never read St. Thomas Aquinas expounding on the subject written in the 13th century; and I can go back much farther.).
Andrades doesn't understand the problem, so he'll never comprehend the answer. From his blog
in red:
It is a dogma of the church that all need the baptism of water for salvation.
It is not a dogma of the Church that BOD is sufficient and must exclude the baptism of water.
The Church teaches infallibly that BOD and BOB are sufficient for salvation without Baptism by water through Her Ordinary and Universal Magisterium. Here are but a few examples:
A letter of Pope Innocent II to the Bishop of Cremona (1140) reads:
We answer to your question: The presbyter
who died without the water of baptism, since he persevered in the faith of Holy Mother Church and in the confession of the name of Christ, we affirm without any doubt that he
became free of the original sin and reached the joy of eternal life" (Denzinger n. 388--Emphasis mine).
Pope Innocent III in his letter
Debitum pastoralis of 1206 (well before the
Baltimore Catechism) states:
"You have communicated to us that a certain Jew, at the edge of dying as he was only among Jews, immersed himself in water saying: ‘I baptize myself in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Amen.’
We answer saying that the baptizer and the one who receives baptism must be different persons, as we infer from the words of the Lord when, speaking to His Apostles, He said: ‘Go, baptize all nations in the name etc (Matt 28:19). Therefore, the mentioned Jew must be baptized again by another person to show that one is the baptizer and another is the one who receives the baptism. … Nonetheless,
if he would have died immediately, he would have flown instantly to the celestial homeland for his faith in the Sacrament rather than for the Sacrament of the Faith "(Denzinger n. 413--Emphasis mine).
Pope Pius XII:
“In the present economy there is no other way of communicating [sanctifying grace] to the child who has not yet the use of reason [other than Baptism]. But, nevertheless, the state of grace at the moment of death is absolutely necessary for salvation. Without it, it is not possible to attain supernatural happiness, the beatific vision of God.
An act of love can suffice for an adult to obtain sanctifying grace and supply for the absence of Baptism; for the unborn child or for the newly born, this way is not open.” (Address to Midwives, Oct. 29, 1951, qtd. in John McCarthy, Problems in Theology, Vol. I (Newman Press, 1956), p. 53--Emphasis mine)
The 1917 Code of Canon Law:
"Baptism, the door and foundation of the Sacraments, in fact
or at least in desire necessary unto salvation for all, is not validly conferred except through the ablution of true and natural water with the prescribed form of words." (Canon 737--Emphasis mine)
"Those who have died without baptism are not to be given ecclesiastical burial.
Catechumens who die without baptism through no fault of their own are to be counted among the baptized." (Canon 1239--Emphasis mine)
The Code of Canon Law is a universal disciplinary law and
cannot teach error. It was promulgated by Pope Benedict XV.
Anyway these cases are hypothetical.You and Bishop Sanborn do not know of any specific case. So how can you assume in principle that there are persons saved as such or going to be saved as such when you do not know and cannot know of any specific case?. How can you make a theoretical rule when no one in Church in history could know of any case?
First, we DO know of some specific cases: From the Roman Martyrology:
"January 23: At Rome, St. Emerentiana, a Virgin and Martyr. She was just a catechumen when she was stoned by the Gentiles while praying on the tomb of St. Agnes, who was her foster-sister."
"April 12: At Braga in Portugal, the martyr St. Victor, who, although only a catechumen, refused to adore an idol, and confessed Jesus Christ with great constancy. After suffering many torments, he was beheaded, and thus merited to be baptized in his own blood."
"June 22: At Verulam in England, in the time of Diocletian, St. Alban, martyr, who gave himself up in order to save a cleric whom he had harbored. After being scourged and subjected to bitter torments, he was sentenced to capital punishment. With him also suffered one of the soldiers who led him to execution, for he was converted to Christ on the way and merited to be baptized in his own blood. St. Bede the Venerable has left an account of the noble combat of St. Alban and his companion."
"June 28: At Alexandria, in the persecution of Severus, the holy martyrs Plutarch, Serenus, Heraclides a catechumen, Heron a neophyte, another Serenus, Rháis a catechumen, Potamioena, and Marcella her mother."(All emphasis above in the Roman Martyrology is mine).
We know they died as catechumens. We know catechumens are unbaptized or they wouldn't be called catechumens had they received the sacrament with water. They were "baptized in their blood" and are listed as saints in the authoritative Roman Martyrology . It can't be wrong because the Church is infallible in declaring people saints. Otherwise, we might be praying to the damned; such is unthinkable. So here are your specific cases, Mr. Andrades. If they can happen then they can happen in 2015!
Second, Andrades sounds like a bad inverse of the movie The Sixth Sense---"I can't see dead people!"
The most important principle he won't acknowledge is that hypothetical statements can be heresy!
If someone said "Christ COULD commit sin" this is heresy because Christ is God, and God can't go against His Own Nature. It doesn't matter that we can't see Christ commit sin, so it's only invisible and implicit for us in 2015. It's heresy. Likewise, I can flip Andrades weird verification criteria on him. In 1950, Pope Pius XII canonized St. Maria Goretti. He couldn't see her in Heaven; he can't see the dead. No one can see her now in 2015, so how do we know she is in Heaven? By the authority of the Church! The same Church that authoritatively decrees that four catechumens are saints in Heaven baptized by there own blood. No "seeing the dead" is needed. When Vatican II states Protestant sects are a "means of salvation" you'll never find proof because it can't happen---but just as "an hypothesis" it is heresy, as it contradicts the True Faith.
His three questions to me:
1.Baptism of desire (BOD) is not relevant to EENS. So why does Fr. Anthony Cekada say the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary religious, at the St. Benedict Centers USA, are in mortal sin for not accepting BOD with reference to EENS.
It has nothing to do with Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (EENS) "Outside The Church There Is No Salvation." It has to do with HOW membership is obtained. St. Benedict Center denies BOB and BOD as understood by the Church and are in mortal sin.
2.The SBC say they accept BOD and it will be followed with the baptism of water.These are hypothetical cases. Why does Fr. Cekaga(sic) consider hypothetical cases as being exceptions or relevant to the dogma EENS?
Once again, it has nothing to do with EENS. BOD is sufficient in and of itself. They deny Church teaching. Hypothetical statements can be heresy.
3.So why does the professor at the sedevacantist seminary make this claim that they are in in mortal sin? Is he not wrong?
No, he is not wrong.
Mr. Andrades will continue to repeat the same drivel, and accuse those who disagree with his heresy "illogical" and "irrational" even after all this has been explained to him. It won't register. I wonder how he considers his "popes" not heretical since they can't see the irrationality and preach near universal salvation in a one-world religion. JPII, Benedict XVI, and now Francis, would all disagree with him. If they are irrational, they can't be popes, for habitual insanity precludes one from holding papal office. If they are not irrational and perpetrate this alleged error, they are heretics and can't be popes. The Holy Ghost is supposed to guide the "pope", but Lionel Andrades is better guided (so he thinks).
Do not engage this man. Pray for him.
2. The Palmarian Church
Unlike most conclavists who think they can elect a "pope" anyway they choose (e.g. David Bawden aka "Pope" Michael), this group has started a new sect based on private revelations. On March 30, 1968, a group in Palmar de Troya, Spain began claiming supernatural revelations from apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
The apparitions involved four pre-teen girls – Ana Aguilera, Ana GarcÃa, Rafaela Gordo and Josefa Guzmán – who said they saw Mary while picking flowers one day. The locals went to the spot of the miracle where all kinds of strange phenomena were claimed to have taken place. These involved occurrences such as a local woman seeming to glow from within, a man running around on his knees at an incredible speed, hosts materializing on people’s tongues, and miraculous healings.
The Blessed Virgin was supposedly giving messages regarding the Antichrist, and a man named Clemente Dominguez became the "official seer" of Palmar de Troya. He claimed to have received the "stigmata" (Wounds of Christ), but one only needs to look at the photos to see it looks like he squirted himself with ketchup. He attracted quite a following, including some rather wealthy people who contributed large sums of money. He contacted Archbishop Peter Thuc, who fell for the story, and in January 1976, Abp. Thuc ordained and then consecrated Dominguez and four of his friends as priests and bishops using the Traditional Rite of the Church. Abp. Thuc was "excommunicated" by Montini (Paul VI) and then reconciled, before breaking away to ordain some sane men as bishops in this time of near Universal Apostasy.
Dominguez didn't understand Latin and had no formal training, so "Mary" conveniently revealed that Spanish was God's favorite language after Latin, and Spanish could be used in the Mass and sacraments.Dominguez lost both his eyes in a car crash, and it was revealed that when Montini died, he would be the next pope as "Gregory XVII." God would publicly restore his sight after he became "pope" on TV so all would know he was the true pontiff. He then said "Mary" revealed what some have called the "crooked ears theory." Montini was a good and holy pope, but had been drugged and locked up in a closet shortly after his election by Masons. They had one of their own replace him by using plastic surgery to look like him, and that's how Vatican II was promulgated. If you look at photos before and after 1964, you will supposedly notice that post January 1964 photos show him with crooked ears--an imperfection that the Masons overlooked and "proof" of this goofball story.
After Montini died, Dominguez was "mystically crowned pope" by Christ Himself, and called the First Palmarian Ecumenical Council. Things got super-weird at this point. Every priest in his sect was also a bishop. Since Dominguez had no training and attempted to translate the rites into Spanish, his ordinations and consecrations are dubious at best. He declared that Palmar de Troya and not Rome, would now be the seat of the Church (the pope must always be bishop of Rome--this is heretical). His "Palmarian Creed" declared Mary the "Irredeemed," for She who is without sin had no need of redemption (Pure heresy. Pope Pius IX, in his infallible declaration on the Immaculate Conception
Ineffabilis Deus, declared that Mary was redeemed "in view of the merits of Jesus Christ"--in a unique manner prior to His death, which God knew with certainty would happen).
He declared John XXIII, Paul VI, and Francisco Franco as "saints." He is accused as having molested several of the nuns in his sect before he died in 2005. His successor, Manuael Alonso Corral, succeeded him as Peter II, but he died six years later. He was succeeded by the currently reigning “pontiff” – Sergio Maria – who took the name Gregory XVIII. Dominguez was "canonized" as "Pope St. Gregory the Very Great."
They have proclaimed the "real presence" of Mary in the Host with Christ, and the bodily assumption of St. Joseph, as dogmas.
At the present time, the Palmarian church claims to have 60 bishops, 70 nuns, and 2,000 followers.
Here's a copy of their whacky rules:
"1. Woman may not wear trousers.
2. Shorts are banned
3. It is forbidden to wear any shirt or similar garment with short sleeves.
4. Sleeves can only be rolled up for the duration of any work such as washing dishes etc.
5. Females must wear skirts no shorter than two fingers width below the knee.
6. Tights are banned as they are classed as mens attire. Female teens and adults may only wear stockings, female children only socks.
7. Female babies cannot wear all in one baby suits.
8. Shirts and blouses must be buttoned to the neck.
9. You cannot play any sport that requires you to wear short sleeves or shorts.
10. Visiting beaches is banned.
11. All voting banned. e.g. Local and general elections, referendums etc.
12. Visiting and using swimming pools is banned.
13. Visiting night clubs is banned
14. Denim cloth is banned, therefore wearing jeans is banned.
15. Listening to popular / modern music is banned.
16. Watching boxing matches is banned.
17. Attending non-Palmarian religious services such as weddings, funerals, christenings etc is banned, for all non Palmarians even family.
18. Males are banned from dying or bleaching hair
19. Males cannot wear ear jewelry or other face jewelry.
20. Receiving organ transplants is banned.
21. Leaving or providing organs for transplant is banned.
22. All contraception is banned.
23. Disco’s are banned.
24. Later introduced in addition to rule 16, All functions associated with non Palmarian religious services such as wedding breakfasts, evening functions, i.e. social functions before or after, christenings, weddings, funerals etc are banned you cannot attend even if function is family or relatives.
25. Later above rule no. 5 was changed to increase the length of skirts below the knee from 2 to 4 or 5 fingers width.
26. Children must be told Christmas presents are from parents and not Santa Claus as he doesn’t exist
27. New Bible introduced, any copies of any other bibles must be burnt. This bible was authored in Spain and has many changes in comparison to the standard bible.
28. TV programs that have people or cartoon characters outside the Palmarian dress code may not be watched. In effect this is most television, it would encompass news, documentaries, etc. etc.
29. No social contact with any persons not dressed to the Palmarian dress code. This in effect means virtually all non-Palmarians.
30. Nobody allowed in the home if not dressed to Palmarian dress code except workmen.
31. In work, contact with non-palmarian co-workers must be kept to a minimum, i.e. only talk to when necessary to carry out the job and no social chat.
32. Only religious books approved by Palmar are allowed all others banned and must be burnt. This in effect means virtually any non Palmarian authored book is banned.
33. Any photos/images with priests who have left the order must be burn/destroyed.
34. Religious films are banned.
35. All prayers and hymns not contained in the Palmarian missal are banned
36. Birthday candles on birthday cakes are banned.
37. Contact with anyone including relatives who are living with partners and not married is banned. This would include all marriages outside the Palmarian Church since the early 1980's as these marriages are considered invalid.
38. Throwing coins in a fountain/well/water is banned.
39. Children must be removed to another room from their classes where non palmarian religious instruction is given.
40. Horoscopes are banned
41. Movies containing references to magic are banned.
42. The neckline of a shirt or blouse etc must when worn be at least 2 fingers width above the breast bone.
43. Christmas trees are banned.
44. Images of Santa Claus are banned
45. Giving or opening presents on Christmas day (25th December) is banned.
46. Christmas presents must be given and opened on the feast of the Epiphany"
(See http://homepage.eircom.net/~palmardetroya/rules.htm)
Some of these rules (banning horoscopes) make sense, but others (no voting) are without justification and are not based on sound principles of moral theology. Mixing good and bad is something the True Church cannot do. Moreover, even the slightest breach of a rule will result in "excommunication." Some were told they had to leave their spouse if he did not adhere strictly to the dress code even around the house!
A group of clergy were dismissed by Dominguez before he died, and now operate as independents--sedevacantist Palmarians!!
3.
Mary's Little Remnant
This group of people are living in New Mexico under a seriously deluded man named Richard Ibranyi. He was formerly associated with the "Dimond Brothers" of NY (and mentioned above). Ibranyi rejects all popes "from Innocent II (1130-1143) onward as apostate antipopes because they are idolaters or formal heretics and hence not Catholic." (RJMI’s Position & Authority, Current version: 1/2014--See http://www.johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/ ) He gets together with some of the "brothers" and they decide by private interpretation, and having no formal education, whether each pope has committed heresy.
He has denounced St. Alphonsus, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Thomas More, St. Bernard, St. Vincent Ferrer (and many others) as heretics. In his own words from his website: "I reject all the so-called popes from Innocent II (1130-1143) onward as apostate antipopes because they are idolaters or formal heretics and hence not Catholic. I believe in the deeper dogma that non-Catholics cannot hold offices in the Catholic Church. For an in-depth profession of the Catholic faith, see The Catholic Church’s (sic) Profession of Faith, compiled by RJMI (
the initials of his entire name--Introibo)."
His beliefs change at the speed of light. As of 2012, he accepted all Popes up to Pope Pius IX and all Councils up until Vatican I (1870). He rejected Pope Leo XIII as the first "antipope." He claims to be called as the "witness of the Apocalypse."
From his site: "I will now address the portion of the… letter that disputed my claim of being one of the witnesses mentioned in the book of the Apocalypse, Chapter 11. I will start with a question: Would you believe me if I said, “Yes, God has called me to be one of the two witnesses mentioned in the book of the Apocalypse?” Does God’s choice depend upon the approval of [a certain group]… or, for that matter, of anyone else? Cannot God choose whom He pleases? Or does God need the recommendation of [a certain group or people]… to confirm the mission He has called me to fulfill. … God has called me to be one of the two witnesses mentioned in the book of the Apocalypse. Does that mean this is true? Yes, if I continue to do God’s will; and no, if I do not continue to do God’s will. If I disobey God and fall away from the faith, then I will prove to be unworthy and forfeit the mission God has given me. I am well aware of the fact that if I disobey God, He would annul the mission He has called me to fulfill. Over the years, starting in 1986, God has been testing me by fire and bringing me along this long road to prepare me for the day when this mission will directly oppose the Antichrist. … Some believe that Elias must return in person as one of the witnesses mentioned in the Book of the Apocalypse, Chapter 11. This is not true. John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy of the coming of Elias to prepare the world for the first coming of Jesus Christ. An angel and Jesus Himself said that John was Elias, meaning John was filled with the same spirit of Elias… The same applies to the mission God has given me as one of the witnesses mentioned in the Book of the Apocalypse, Chapter 11. My mission is to expose and attack the Antichrist and his minions and his evil kingdom and to convert good-willed men, many of whom will be Jews, by turning their hearts to the one and only true God, the Catholic God, and to usher in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Therefore, I am not Elias but am filled with the spirit of Elias!"
Need I even comment on this farce?
CONCLUSION
As Traditionalists, we are what's left of the Roman Catholic Church, since the Great Apostasy of Vatican II. We base this on sound theological principles, and hold on to the Faith as understood and practiced by all true Catholics from 33 AD to the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958. You can see that the groups above are not educated and base their beliefs on private revelations, self-made hermenutics of interpretation, and grandiose ideas of self-importance. Ibranyi's group resides in a New Mexico city called "Truth or Consequences." It's fitting. If the above individuals, who have turned a deaf ear to the Truth don't repent, they (and their followers) may receive the horrible consequences to come.
